Gov't to consider Japanese language ability as requirement for long-stay foreigners

[ArmandV]

Gov't to consider Japanese language ability as requirement for long-stay foreigners

The Foreign Ministry and Justice Ministry have decided to consider making Japanese language ability a requirement for foreigners seeking long-term residency and when screening their residency permits, it has been learned.

The aim of the measures is to make it easier for the increasing number of non-Japanese in Japan to blend into the community, and provide an increased incentive for foreigners coming to Japan to learn Japanese.

Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura announced the proposed move in a news conference on Tuesday.

"Japanese language ability is important to increase the quality of foreigners' own lifestyles, and is also important for Japanese society," he said. "It will be a very good thing if this builds momentum for people to say, 'I'm going to study Japanese in order to go to Japan.'"

The government bodies are expected to consider whether to include Japanese language ability as a new screening standard for people entering the country, and consider checking whether foreigners' Japanese language ability has improved when renewing their residence permits.

However, some government officials have expressed reservations about the proposed measures, saying there is a possibility it could result in valuable human resources not being able to enter the country.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080116p2a00m0na017000c.html

 

[nice gaijin]

While I think it's advisable to know Japanese for someone who intends to live in Japan long-term, I don't see the benefit of making it mandatory. Are there any other countries that have such regulations?

What do you think, Armand? It's hard to have a discussion when you aren't bringing your own opinion to the table...

 

[ArmandV]

While I think it's advisable to know Japanese for someone who intends to live in Japan long-term, I don't see the benefit of making it mandatory. Are there any other countries that have such regulations?

What do you think, Armand? It's hard to have a discussion when you aren't bringing your own opinion to the table...

I agree with you. It seems antagonistic to make it mandatory. It would be beneficial for someone to know Japanese, but it should be left up to the individual. I know of no other country with such regulations.

 

[nice gaijin]

I suppose this brings up the larger question of how Japan should deal with a growing foreign community: should they begin to embrace and celebrate multiculturalism, increasing the common understanding of foreign cultures by bringing foreigners more into the public eye under a positive light, or by encouraging/forcing foreigners to "become more Japanese" at the expense of their own cultural identity. I think this is a question that Japan must face in light of the declining population and inevitable influx of immigrants.

 

[Anatoli]

In my opinion, we should respect the Japanese government's opinion. They give a chance for foreigners to stay but on a condition. The tests for the knowledge should take into account that Japanese is a hard language to learn, especially the writing system and will require a lot of time, also the amount of time spent in Japan, age and the intended time should be taken into consideration. It has recently become the requirement in Australia to know English to become a citizen and it was one of the main factors for immigration.

Knowing the language where you live is very important. For young people it's just a matter of finding a proper school, time and some money to invest into learning Japanese, if they are already in Japan.

Compare this with Switzerland - you can be born there and speak a few languages, you still remain a foreigner.

 

[nice gaijin]

but this proposed policy does not mention Japanese language ability as a prerequisite for citizenship, just for "foreigners seeking long-term residency," and even mentions subsequent testing to measure progress. What good does this do? It would be nice if it were coupled with some sort of incentive, like a free education or paid time off to study, but what about people working all day in a non-Japanese language environment, and don't have time to study other than to pick up a few new words at the combini or from some other limited interaction with Japanese people? Do they get deported for "not needing Japanese" in their daily lives?

Compare this with Switzerland - you can be born there and speak a few languages, you still remain a foreigner.

I'm not familiar with Switzerland's policies, could you elaborate what you meant with that reference?

 

[Glenski]

Another xenophobic reaction by the government, IMO.

This article is preliminary and doesn't state what level of Japanese will be necessary. It implies spoken, but is that really enough to be called "fluent"? I don't think so. So, that leaves us with a test of spoken, written, and reading ability. It doesn't exist yet. Who is going to make this? What level of "fluency" will be acceptable? Who makes the standards?

Some people who have been here a long time (various visa or other residency situations) may not have learned quite enough to pass the proposed "test". Does that mean that after putting in years of living and working here, paying taxes and perhaps raising a family with children in school and a spouse working, that person would have to drop everything and leave? Unfair.

Yes, people should try to learn a certain level of Japanese to live here, but this idea from the government doesn't make sense.

Anti-terrorist in its goals? So, now we are considering that long-term residents are potential terrorists, eh? Prove the foundation for such an argument. It can't be done.

Renewal of work visas dependent on such "fluency"? Well, I can imagine business communities, Japanese and foreign, will be kinda miffed at hearing that their good workers are going to have to leave the country. The declining birthrate and poor immigration policies already in place to replace the drop in population (i.e., worker potential) are pretty lame. This only adds fuel to the fire.

Lastly, kudos for Anatoli for this comment.

In my opinion, we should respect the Japanese government's opinion. They give a chance for foreigners to stay but on a condition. The tests for the knowledge should take into account that Japanese is a hard language to learn, especially the writing system and will require a lot of time

Remember that the Japanese themselves admit that it is hard for foreigners to learn the language as a whole, and that it takes Japanese 12 years to become only relatively fluent in the 2000 kanji necessary for daily life.

 

[Thorham]

I agree with you. It seems antagonistic to make it mandatory. It would be beneficial for someone to know Japanese, but it should be left up to the individual. I know of no other country with such regulations.

In the Netherlands it's not only mandatory for foreigners who want to stay here to learn Dutch, it's also mandatory to learn about the Dutch culture! The government believes this helps integration of foreigners. They have a good point: Everything here is in Dutch, and if you can't understand it, participating in normal, every day life becomes very difficult (no Dutch=no job=no life). I simply can not imagine living in a country where I can't understand and read the language; to me it would be completely unbearable, and make it impossible for me to participate in normal life. Just try to get a job somewhere! I think this applies to every country; just try living in China if you don't know Chinese...

 

[nice gaijin]

In the Netherlands it's not only mandatory for foreigners who want to stay here to learn Dutch, it's also mandatory to learn about the Dutch culture! The government believes this helps integration of foreigners. They have a good point: Everything here is in Dutch, and if you can't understand it, participating in normal, every day life becomes very difficult (no Dutch=no job=no life). I simply can not imagine living in a country where I can't understand and read the language; to me it would be completely unbearable, and make it impossible for me to participate in normal life. Just try to get a job somewhere! I think this applies to every country; just try living in China if you don't know Chinese...

I agree that it would be very frustrating to try living in a country where I don't speak or understand the common language, and I would work hard to learn the language to get along on my own, but there are people that get along fine and don't mind being in that situation. Should the motivation to learn a language come from within, or be imposed from an outside authority for reasons that might not apply to everyone?

Does the Dutch government deport people who fail to show an acceptable level of fluency? As Glenski said, who gets to decide what level that is? It would be interesting to hear from someone who failed to meet those standards, and what they think of this kind of law.

 

[Elizabeth]

I agree that it would be very frustrating to try living in a country where I don't speak or understand the common language, and I would work hard to learn the language to get along on my own, but there are people that get along fine and don't mind being in that situation.

Of course they don't mind because they are shamelessly free riding, parastically, off the backs, and in no small measure gracious good will, of their Japanese hosts. Who HAVE BEEN forced to learn English for seven or more years.

If you think getting up to speed on basic level conversation/writing skills after living in place several years is too much stress try passing an entrance exam after a course of English classes not even taught by a native instructor...Life in Japan is good, and even easy, but foreigner laziness and lack of motivation to contribute to the linguistic burden in equal measure is disgusting

 

[nice gaijin]

I had the dekasegi Brazilians in mind when I wrote that; they work long hours and tend to socialize only with other people in their position in their free time, and a majority of them speak little to no Japanese (although their unique immigration status might make them exempt from this requirement, which makes one wonder what the point was in the first place). There are other foreign populations in similar situations, are they all freeloaders for their inability or unwillingness to pick up Japanese?

Who did you have in mind to write such a vehement response?

 

[ArmandV]

How can someone be called a "freeloader" if that person is employed and paying taxes in Japan? It seems that that person is being beneficial to the Japanese economy rather than "freeloading."

The classic definition of a freeloader is someone who is sponging off the government (i.e., welfare) when they could otherwise work.

 

[Sensationalist]

simple

I think this new initiative is great ! All the Japanese government is saying is that you have a choice; either be functionally illiterate or literate if you want to live her long term. In North America it goes without saying we expect foreign nationals to be able to have some basic proficiency in English, but when they are not able to demonstrate that, we get angry and intolerant of that person. Japan is trying to make it a requirement for foreign nationals to learn Japanese. The only incentive is that you either learn it or get out of this country.

 

[Taiko666]

The only incentive is that you either learn it or get out of this country.

And you don't find that antagonistic?

Would you accept being forced to leave the country if you failed the test?

 

[Anatoli]

Nice gaijin, in Switzerland, migration laws remain very strict, despite people trying to adapt as much as possible - they are not given citizenship and getting permanent residence is extremely hard.

--
Yes, I agree, foreigners need motivation - if this is made harder for them to stay, they will try to learn! Aren't schools or private classes available? You can find Japanese classes even if you don't live in Japan.

I know many Russians who complained about Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania making them learn the language. I am Russian but I think it was fair (maybe not some other things). If you want to live in a country, learn their language and culture, respect your hosts - it will be for your own benefit and people around you, so it will be for your kids.

I don't think it has to do with terrorism but some transparency perhaps.

As for the level required, they probably still deciding, let's not speculate before we know what the requirements are. Found nearest Japanese class yet?

I am not evil. It's common sense. Try to think from the Japanese point of view ("Think like them", Shogun). Even if you pay taxes but not interested in the language, it means you only doing it to get rich. Your value will only increase if you can communicate in Japanese and do your job.

The positive effect on introducing similar measures in Australia was good, IMHO.

 

[MadamePapillon]

When your moving to live in a foreign country long term it makes sense to learn the local language, even if you are in an environment where maybe you may not use it a lot, it should still be a requirement, not just in Japan but in every country.

I don't think it's fair to the original citizens when all sorts of immigrants come into their country to work, not speaking a word of their language and not knowing the cultural and societal behaviors that everyone is expected to conform to. It just makes life harder for everyone, especially if the people aren't even willing to try to learn the language.

That's where you get situations when people being to think their country is being overrun by immigrants and it can all just snowball into a grim situation when the original citizens feel a threat that their country is changing to suit the newcomers and pushing them aside. Japan especially seems really high strung about the issue and are perceiving a threat before one has begun, something tells me it wouldn't take much to light the fuse.

 

[Taiko666]

Of course they don't mind because they are shamelessly free riding, parastically, off the backs, and in no small measure gracious good will, of their Japanese hosts. Who HAVE BEEN forced to learn English for seven or more years. I detect a 'we've made the effort, so you must to the same' nuance.

If you think getting up to speed on basic level conversation/writing skills after living in place several years is too much stress try passing an entrance exam after a course of English classes not even taught by a native instructor...Life in Japan is good, and even easy, but foreigner laziness and lack of motivation to contribute to the linguistic burden in equal measure is disgusting

I don't quite understand your outburst. But I've seen several similar outbursts on this issue from foreigners who can speak excellent Japanese, and I think foreigners who are not so accomplished can expect to suffer similar angry pontification in the near future.

I also agree that one should learn the language. I did, because I wanted to communicate with my Japanese friends, the vast majority of whom can't speak any conversational English despite having been 'forced' to study it for 7 years. I expect foreigners who live here without learning Japanese have large numbers of Japanese friends who want to speak English with them. If that's their bag, so be it. I don't think these people should even be looked down on, let alone thrown out of the country.

 

[orochi]

Unusual outburst indeed.

 

[Glenski]

I also agree that calling long-term residents freeloaders just because they may not have learned to be extremely fluent. The definition just doesn't fit, as others have explained.

Elizabeth wrote:

...their Japanese hosts. Who HAVE BEEN forced to learn English for seven or more years.

Ahem. They may have studied for that long, but they certainly didn't learn anywhere near enough to be called conversationally fluent. As a teacher, I can attest to that.

Sensationalist wrote:

All the Japanese government is saying is that you have a choice; either be functionally illiterate or literate if you want to live her long term.

No, you got it wrong. It says be functionally literate or get out if you want to live here long-term. But, the article is also vague (because it is such preliminary news) about who this affects, as I mentioned earlier -- long-term resident visa holder, or work visa holder, or perhaps even (gasp!) Permanent Resident status holders. Mind you, it may not affect the PR holders who currently have PR; the article talks about renewing visas, and PR is not a visa, nor is it renewed. The government may try to impose this on PR applicants, though. But, the terminology in the article is weird enough, so that it may just be long-term resident visa holders (which in itself is strange). Is it the fault of the government for such weirdness, or the newspaper for poor reporting/translating?

 

[orochi]

>>Is it the fault of the government for such weirdness, or the newspaper for poor reporting/translating?

Most of the English language press on the issue is very poor right now.
I highly recommend checking Japanese news sites for more accurate details.
But overall, there's very little information out there. I wouldn't be surprised if we never heard another word of this actually.

 

[nice gaijin]

to be fair, "freeloaders" was my word, but that was the impression I got from Elizabeth's post.

As I've said before, I think it's important to learn the local language and culture when considering a permanent move to a new country. Heck, I prefer to learn as much about a new place before I even visit. But while encouraging it is one thing, forcing it on people unilaterally does not seem to be doing them any favors. This report is so premature there is no information on the standards to which foreigners will be held, what governing body will set the standards and administer the tests, or who is going to pay for this mess. Until we get the particulars of this proposed plan, we're all just debating a hypothetical situation.

Anatoli: What you've said about Switzerland is very interesting. I'm looking through this site regarding their naturalization processes. It seems that they operate on jus sanguinis, which makes it much harder for immigrant families to obtain citizenship than places like the US. Have you lived there before, or are the Swiss especially well known for their strict immigration policies?

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

That rules me out then!

"Gov't to consider Japanese language ability as requirement for long-stay foreigners"

That rules me out then!

 

[nyouyaku]

When your moving to live in a foreign country long term it makes sense to learn the local language, even if you are in an environment where maybe you may not use it a lot, it should still be a requirement, not just in Japan but in every country.
I don't think it's fair to the original citizens when all sorts of immigrants come into their country to work, not speaking a word of their language and not knowing the cultural and societal behaviors that everyone is expected to conform to. It just makes life harder for everyone, especially if the people aren't even willing to try to learn the language.
That's where you get situations when people being to think their country is being overrun by immigrants and it can all just snowball into a grim situation when the original citizens feel a threat that their country is changing to suit the newcomers and pushing them aside. Japan especially seems really high strung about the issue and are perceiving a threat before one has begun, something tells me it wouldn't take much to light the fuse.

I think that you make a good point that people should learn the language of the host country. So many farangs don't even bother to try learning Thai even after years of stay. But Japanese and Chinese, I have to admit, must be made an exception: Their kanji characters are unrealistic for the foreigners who did not grow up with kanji. I can see Chinese and Japanese learning each other's language, but for Thai people it would be just as hard to learn Japanese kanji as it would be for any other farang. If they are going to make tests, I pray that it would only be in hiragana. Now if they want to naturalize nikkeijin as a regular nihonjin, then, sure the kanji requirement would be fair game. As it would be to keep dual nationality, a test.

 

[Homerduff]

Is this news article so 'breaking' ?

We all know that if you want to stay in Japan for a long term, you should be able to have good Japanese ability or your chances of finding work are almost nill. The ones that do succeed, should still learn the language in my opinion. If you decide to live in a country - be a member of the society - you have to learn the language for your own sake. Not knowing the language will only make foreigners stand out more and won't cure the big amount of xenophobic Japanese people.

Good rule. Too bad for those English native business men who may be dead scared of learning 1 new language. At the age of 12 (and let's say all average 12 years old students in Belgium), I was already familiar with 3 languages.

 

[pipokun]

Tell me what is the difference between "decided" and decided to consider in English...
In Japanese, it must be a huge difference...