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USA the biggest threat to world peace.

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We Need to correct the errors between us,that's what we need now,Not to talk about the Crimes and the past ...
I am sure if we meet each other we will make better than the Stuped Governments....
Arabs hate their Government and Americans hate their Government so we can leave both governments and take togither PPL with PPL ...
I hope to see a good world in the future ...
best wishes
Hezam

Yes, thanks, Carlos. This is how we can "bypass" our governments and make a better world.

posted by centrajapan:

Impeach Bush.

This has already been tried. What's so completely ridiculous is that Clinton was impeached because of an affair he said he didn't have. It makes us look like idiots when we impeach a president who had an affair, but not one who starts an illegal war and okays torture and so many other things.
 
Clinton should just have said. I inhailed and I had sex so what? But I guess he got burnt because of it but what Bush has done is so much worse. I think I need to look up the word logic. I just don't get it.
 
Not hardly. Besides, China is the bigger threat to world peace than our own government(as distasteful as it can be at times).

-Doc 🙂
 
i don't see china shoving its nose in every nation's internal affairs and invading this waging war on that ...claiming some country has weapons of mass destruction just to use it as an excuse to ruin a nation and kill almost a million soul.

i don't see china using veto on every God damn UN resolution against Israel.
and i don't see china being bias to one side and not the other....i don't see china treating others with double standards.

well what do you know i see the US doing so
 
There is always two sides to the story, so stop giving just one side. As a matter of fact, you have proven to be just as ignorant in such matters as much as the rest of the world is on each respective human culture, society, and government. If you want me to take you seriously, then provide some information that is on the other side of the story, not just on your side. Only then can we work together for an agreement.

-Doc 🙂
 
Oh yes, the big bad Jewish people. If they were just wiped off the face of the Earth, the Middle East would all be good. Yes, if the Middle East and the rest of the world for that matter was all one giant Islamic state, everything will be good.

do not try to make me say what i didn't say..and do not try to make my words look bad ...
i never said that the world should be Islamic.but for those parts of the world that are Islamic we appreciate no Invasion...no occupation...

and i i must have said that a million times : we are not against Jews..we are against Invaders...once it was crusaders (Christians) ..now it is Zionists (Jews..once it was Mongols (pagans)
we have no problem with a religion sect...we have a problem with invaders...those who kill innocent people , bomb civilian areas and make life for the original people of the land a living hell.
the US used veto against every resolution made against Israel...that is unfair...it is not even related to any anti semitic crap

really man ..drop the anti-semitic argument it is not working...
coz obviously we are not anti-semitic...
we Arabs are semitic our selves, so are the Acadians, so are the Kaldanians...

what anti-semitism..naming us as Jew haters...

you just proved that we out done you with argument and all you can do is ridicule what we have to say with poor replies...which are meant to flame and pass judgment on us by calling us names..

really a cheap way of making a conversation.
 
do not try to make me say what i didn't say..and do not try to make my words look bad ...
i never said that the world should be Islamic.but for those parts of the world that are Islamic we appreciate no Invasion...no occupation...
and i i must have said that a million times : we are not against Jews..we are against Invaders...once it was crusaders (Christians) ..now it is Zionists (Jews..once it was Mongols (pagans)
we have no problem with a religion sect...we have a problem with invaders...those who kill innocent people , bomb civilian areas and make life for the original people of the land a living hell.
the US used veto against every resolution made against Israel...that is unfair...it is not even related to any anti semitic crap
really man ..drop the anti-semitic argument it is not working...
coz obviously we are not anti-semitic...
we Arabs are semitic our selves, so are the Acadians, so are the Kaldanians...
what anti-semitism..naming us as Jew haters...
you just proved that we out done you with argument and all you can do is ridicule what we have to say with poor replies...which are meant to flame and pass judgment on us by calling us names..
really a cheap way of making a conversation.


I would like to know how the Zionists are invaders. Enlighten me. BTW, my previous comment wasn't meant as a flame or a cheap jab. I am just getting sick and tired of you going on and on about the evil US government, the evil Isreali government, and anybody else that isn't on your side with fallacies in every single one of your arguments. If you're going to wax intellectually on the subject, then by all means show both sides of the issue. Don't just sit there and expect me to believe that your words are set and stone, and that is that. That's not how intellectual debates are made.

-Doc 🙂
 
China just poisons us with their toxic products that we think we need. They have us all brainwashed into wanting cheap stuff and we all fell for it. They are a threat more than anyone else. They need the most resources, and thems that needs wants, and they have a lot of people to get what they want..not to mention they are expendable to the Chinese government!
 
I think US has done alot of stupid things in the past but I don't think they are the biggest threat to world peace. In a way they are because they have such a gigantic millitary and don't seem to want to stop pretending to be the police of the world while not taking respnsibility for the crimes they comit. Rather it is when the public become ignorant and get in a sheeple mind set and have too much faith in the government or get too apathetic so that they let the various government and authority do the thinking for you. When the government want to shift the anger and frustration of the public by finding escape goats then thats a threat to peace.
 
I think what many people fail to understand is this. The people of the USA can change the leadership of our country. We have a chance every 4 years. We can change what the USA does, we have to vote. Am I for the war in Iraq, no, Afganistan, no, but I didn't vote for the President that chose to take the USA to war. He will be gone, soon, he's finishing his last term. I find it amazing that people want to kill him so the USA will end the war. That is such nonsense, then you would have Cheney, who would continue the same. We can be a peaceful nation, we just have to get the right people in. The way to do that is to VOTE! The problem is people don't vote, then they complain. I can complain, I VOTED! I have never missed a vote on a president ever. We have a peaceful exchange of power every 4 (sometime 8) years, not many countries can claim that...
 
Bush is lower than scum. Most countries can elect their leaders too and they tend to have much better candidates than USA. Look at Bush. How can people vote this sicko not once but twice. This born again Christian alcoholic pchycopath.

Both Democrats and Republicans were in favour of the Iraq invasion. There was not much of a strong anti war movement in US due to the 9-11 lie.

In US the majority of the people supported an Iraq invasion where as in UK most people were against the Iraq invasion. I am not sure which is worse. Atleast Bush had the public behind him in the beginning and Blair didn't. In that sense US is more democratic than UK but also much more nationalistic.
 
Did you live in the USA at that time? Did you go to anti-war demonstrations. I felt we needed to retaliate for 9/11, but we bombed the WRONG country. Remember not all people voted for Bush! You can't lump all Americans in the same boat. I respect the Constitution of the USA and for what it stands for. Too the presidential elections in the USA are not won by popular vote, it is the electoral college that votes for each state. They DON"T have to vote for who the majority of their state wants. So you could vote for Smith, and the majority of your state does to, but you electoral college members can vote for Jones! (made up names of course) So don't go sounding off on what you don't know. You seem to think you know the USA very well, well what you know is propaganda. I am an American, ask me what is going on in my home state and country, I am not biased, because no one gives me money, I don't make money from my position, I have nothing to gain, unlike so called news agencies. Also there are more than just republicans and democrats in the USA, were called independent. Also, I don't care what other countries thought of 9/11 it wasn't their buildings blown up, their people murdered by cowards, their opinions didn't count.
 
US shouldnツ´t have bombed any country because 9-11 was a set up. It was the American government who did it. They should be sent to prison.

There are many great things about US which I like and there are alot of things about the country which I dont like. Its a love hate relationship. If they stopped bombing countries I would dislike them much less.

Bush is a war pig.
 
There is where our opinions divide us and nothing will bring them even remotely close, and therefore we can't discuss much. 9/11 was committed by Saudi terrorists, they took the jets and flew them into the WTC. That's it. Believe what you will and allow me to do the same.
 
US shouldnエt have bombed any country because 9-11 was a set up. It was the American government who did it. They should be sent to prison.
There are many great things about US which I like and there are alot of things about the country which I dont like. Its a love hate relationship. If they stopped bombing countries I would dislike them much less.
Bush is a war pig.
Yeah yeah bush sucks. We're about to get a new president.
It makes no sense. Why would 911 be a setup?
I get this disturbing feeling that you HATE the U.S.A and are eager to watch it fall. Be open-minded and try to see from a side beyond your own.
 
Yeah yeah bush sucks. We're about to get a new president.
It makes no sense. Why would 911 be a setup?
I get this disturbing feeling that you HATE the U.S.A and are eager to watch it fall. Be open-minded and try to see from a side beyond your own.



The theory is that Bush was responsable for the 9/11 attacks and he did it to draw it support for his oil war in Iraq- regardless of whether or not this is true, the fact of the matter remains that if it weren't for the 9/11 attacks, likely support from the general public for the war in iraq wouldn't have been half as much, even though Saddam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Bush certainly used and abused the tragedy of the 9/11 attacks to draw in support for his own ambitions.



I personally i disagree with the war in Iraq, i feel we the general public were manipulated into agreeing with it, politicians twisted a lot of facts and there were never any weapons of mass destruction. Thousands of soliders and tens of thousands of civilians lives have been lost in the war, Iraq has crumbled and turned into a hell hole because of the war, people of all ages and either gender suffer enormously there. The americans have made so many bad mistakes in the war, it has gone from worse to worse etc.
And now america is been greatly affected by this war it has created- its dollar is weakening and oil prices are going up, the war has costed it millions of dollars, and everyone is asking what is to show for all of this? Nothing good thats for sure.

I think one of the things that got a lot of non-americans irritated is that why all of this has been going on for years, a lot of americans were in denial for it for a long time (and some still are) while other non-american people were coming to their sense and realising these things from early on- a lot of people view americans as particularly brainwashed by their governments/politicians propaganda and biased views because of this.


Over here in England, while we understand we live in a great country, we also realise that it is not perfect and that it does have its problems and flaws. A lot of americans though just seem to be completely incapable of admitting that there's anything wrong with their country, and that its this arrogance that i think gets to a lot of non-americans.

Of course i'm generalising a lot here, and i personally do and don't agree with some of the things i am stating here, but if any americans want to understand why not everybody loves america or think america is the best thing since sliced bread etc, then these are a few of the reasons commonly viewed by many people.
 
Doc

in any culture, any society any living human understanding...
some on taking other's people's land is an invader...
cut the crap about the history and the biblical promised land bull ****
there was Palestinian villages and now they are Israeli cities...built on the corpses of massacared Palestinians and burnt to ash villages...

this is invasion ..occupation...
i dont mean to bitter ..but let me tell you this:
i don't expect some one like you who see it as righteous to take the lands of native Americans and massacre millions of red Indians to feel any compassion to Palestinians who are having the same fate as the red Indians...
they are having their lands invaded, occupied and forgotten
 
Since I am in a positive mood for once, I think I'll actually post something in-depth tonight. From my understanding to your post Tokis, Americans seem to be ignorant of many things in today's world. While I agree with you whole heartedly on that point, please keep in mind Americans aren't the only ones who are ignorant of the world. It is humanity in general that is ignorant of certain issues in the world. For example, take a look at the comment I made to Scorpion earlier. Granted, it was a bit brash on things, but the comment has a three folded meaning.

1.) Produce a negative action, and receive a negative response in kind.
2.) Producing only one sided arguments makes you look intellectually dishonest.
3.) Ignorance is not an excuse in producing poor arguments on issues.

Every argument that I read coming from Scorpion was always in a negative, absolutist fashion with no actual backing, and lack of comprehension or explanation of all sides of the issue. An example is the whole anti-Zionist attitude. He discusses how the Israelis are invaders, and should be dealt with in a quick and efficient manner. He never once talks about the Israeli side of things. Nor does he talk about how recent poles, sentiments, and overall feelings on the matter from both the Israelis and Palestinians is to solve problems in peace, break into a bi-state region, and remain good neighbors (much like how Czechoslovakia broke into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and remain positive in ties with one another).

Scorpion also fails to acknowledge that the Israelis have every right to be in the Middle East, as anybody does, especially with the Hebrew faith having such a tragic history in a constant struggle in losing and regaining their holy land. Granted, in today's world both sides are to blame for certain hostilities, but for the most part it is the ignorant ones who continue to keep the flame going. It is due to a consistent preaching of said ignorance throughout the generations, and Scorpion's comments proved that.

Any sane person would realize that Islam isn't to blame, rather it is the culture of the region that is to blame. Add in about 100 million nut jobs perverting a religion and keeping the people ignorant, and you have what you have today. It isn't religion that drives the agenda, rather it is politics. The negative comment I made before that seemed to generalize Muslims was done on purpose. Why? It is because that is the kind of sentiments people have due to ignorance, from a society who justifies their actions in even further ignorance and complacency to fix it. If Muslims don't want the negative comments brought about them, then they need to be proactive in trying to fix the problem and change their culture around. Ignorance breeds ignorance, and to push it aside makes matters worse.

We are all guilty of ignorance. The whole world is. If people wish not to have such generalizations put into place, then they need to fix it. Provide different points of view. Provide facts not factoids. Don't actively go off on a tangent with a few scraps of poor information to provide your point of view, and then feel you're right and everybody else is wrong. It only gets you into further trouble. Most importantly, do let your feelings take control of the intellectual debate. Furthermore, do not judge certain events now in such an absolutist point of view. You don't know what the outcome will be, nor do you know what all the factors are either. It takes a good thirty years before the world can truly find out and justify the causes and effects of historical events.

*Note*

(I plan to at a later time (possibly tomorrow), to give an example of this with one of the most controversial historical topics of the twentieth century, the Vietnam War. What people think they know and what actually happened are so far apart it isn't even funny. I also plan to offer some insight later on why the US government does certain things that seem so negative to some, but in a twisted way actually has a positive spin in the long term. Lastly, I would like to go into the whole PC culture issue to, and provide how fallacious that is too.)

The point I am trying to make is that ignorance is all around us. It is what makes us human. The only way we can fix it, is to be active as a society to do so. All I have seen in this thread is nothing more than one sided arguments based on notions of hearsay, disinformation, and ignorance. The whole point of this section of the forum is to discuss serious matters in an intellectual context. However, when you have people throw out nothing but one sided arguments with little backing in context and get pissed off and leave when they know they're trapped in their own fallacies, it is no wonder this thread has degraded in the way that it has. There are a lot of criticisms that can be made about the US, but the same can be said for any country, culture, and society. If you are not willing to take the heat for it, then stop coming in here and posting in the thread with hate filled, ignorant messages.

We can learn from each other's ignorance and lies to find the truth. Just have the guts to do it, that's all.

-Doc 🙂
 
Doc sir
i thank you for proving me right!!
you just showed me how little knowledge you have about me or what i stand for...and how you simply assume that i am ignorant and that i don't know how the Israeli side feels about all matters....... and this is coming from some one oceans away form the middle east and haven't experienced war with Israel first hand as i did many times ...

and this shows how poorly you read any of my comments since i became active in this forum.

first because i have debated with a man from Israel here on this forum and you are welcome to see how the conversation went ...
and i stated very clearly that:
" if a compromise was to be made to fulfill both people's aims ( Israel and Palestine )...If a compromise was to really achieve peace ...if a compromise is really effective and will grant us and the Israelis a honorable life...
then i welcome that compromise"


you are welcome to see my comments on the believe system 101 thread
the what means to make a compromise possible in the middle east thread


and then you could know what kind of person i am.before judging from nothing...

and the reason you have this negative from me towards you is because of shallow, poor, flaming, sarcastic comments of yours...just like the one you began with when you tried to make me look anti semitic....

oh and one more thing, if the Jewsih people went through so much pain that does not give them to inflict the same pain and suffer or ( more dosed pain ) to Arabs and invade their lands...
this land was Palestinian...I don't care what the bible said it was...

" so if the Islamic texts said that the Vatican is Islamic does that give us the right to invade it and have all the world's support in doing so??"

mixing religion with invading intent is cheap way cheap ....

and the holocaust was made by the German ..so the Jews can go there and build their holy land...why should we pay for a holocaust we didn't commit?
why should we have a holocaust be made against us...
 
Doc sir
i thank you for proving me right!!
you just showed me how little knowledge you have about me or what i stand for...and how you simply assume that i am ignorant and that i don't know how the Israeli side feels about all matters....... and this is coming from some one oceans away form the middle east and haven't experienced war with Israel first hand as i did many times ...

and this shows how poorly you read any of my comments since i became active in this forum.

first because i have debated with a man from Israel here on this forum and you are welcome to see how the conversation went ...
and i stated very clearly that:
" if a compromise was to be made to fulfill both people's aims ( Israel and Palestine )...If a compromise was to really achieve peace ...if a compromise is really effective and will grant us and the Israelis a honorable life...
then i welcome that compromise"


you are welcome to see my comments on the believe system 101 thread
the what means to make a compromise possible in the middle east thread


and then you could know what kind of person i am.before judging from nothing...

and the reason you have this negative from me towards you is because of shallow, poor, flaming, sarcastic comments of yours...just like the one you began with when you tried to make me look anti semitic....

oh and one more thing, if the Jewsih people went through so much pain that does not give them to inflict the same pain and suffer or ( more dosed pain ) to Arabs and invade their lands...
this land was Palestinian...I don't care what the bible said it was...

" so if the Islamic texts said that the Vatican is Islamic does that give us the right to invade it and have all the world's support in doing so??"

mixing religion with invading intent is cheap way cheap ....

and the holocaust was made by the German ..so the Jews can go there and build their holy land...why should we pay for a holocaust we didn't commit?
why should we have a holocaust be made against us...

If you indeed made that statement about peace in an earlier comment in a different thread, then I am rightfully wrong on that account.

However, I wouldn't celebrate anything just yet. You openly point out the flaws of all other cultures and societies, yet of your own. What about the checkered past of your people. What about all the millions of people who were killed in the name of religion. You sir, have just proven that you are an equal hypocrite in the matter. You quickly jump on the Christianity with the Crusades and the "Zionists" (and I use that term loosely too) on the Israel/Palestine issue. Yet, you never go into the past of what Muslims have done to people in that past. Do you think that the very land you live on isn't covered in the blood and corpses of innocent people who have died in the past over needless things. Over corruption, unnecessary judgment, and justification for such actions?

Me use religion in the sake of an argument? What about you? You obviously feel you are entitled to justify your arguments in such a context, or at the very least condemn anybody who does except when the challenge is brought onto you. So why can't others do the same? What entitles you to have that right. You ***** and complain that I'm being judgmental yet you do the same. If I am such a shallow and childish person, then what does that make you? You are no better in your arguments, and are just as equally childish and shallow. You have still yet to prove to me that everything you say is set in stone, and that your way is the right way. I'm looking for a debate here, and all you have provided is slams on me and others just equally as I others have done onto you.

If none of this is based on religion then what is it then? Cultural? Political? Tell me, I really want to know. You keep jumping around the issue, and only point out flaws in other's arguments to make yourself look better, yet when others do the same to you, you get pissed and start with mindless ramblings. I am not here to pick a fight, I am here to have an intellectual debate. However, if you are unwilling to accept other people's point of view and opinions on such matters then what's the point?

Oh and one last thing, about your whole "I'm a foreigner and know nothing about the Middle East", I guess having loads of Arab friends who like to give information of issues in that region that doesn't come out from AP, Reuters, and CNN doesn't count in having knowledge huh? If that is the case, then you know nothing about America, Americans, or what we put up with in general. Which means, if I can't talk or have an understanding about what happens in the Middle East, then you have no right to discuss anything about the US.

-Doc 🙂
 
If you agree with Israel it means you support ethnic cleansing. You are bound to have trouble if a people who come from thousands of kilometers away one day come in and say. This land is ours. Take a hike. We are the Chosen people therefore only I have a right to live here. I dont care how long you have lived here or your ancestors. Thats not my business so please take a hike.

Ben Gurion Quotes.

We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.
David Ben-Gurion


"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
 
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