New Procedures in Entering Japan for Foreigners

[mr.sumo.snr]

Since Japan has participated in the Gulf, sooner or later some wacko terrorist group from that region may decide to hit Japan in some way. It is probably prudent for them to bolster security to be on the safe side.

So perhaps they should start photographing and fingerprinting every Japanese person too - this was what I understood from Glenski's posts.

I'm quite happy about these new procedures now that I know I'll get my 'own' queue. Would I be correct in assuming that Green Card holders get fingerprinted but nevertheless line up with US Citizens at immigration control?

--

 

[Ewok85]

Ooh, they are going to use your picture and fingerprints to come get you in the middle of the night and toss you in a gulag! The government most likely has enough data on you already.

You joke about it, but it happens from time to time in the US.

 

[pipokun]

Your application will only be accepted at the Visa Application Centre if you can:
...
have your biometrics data recorded.
http://www.uknow.or.jp/be_e/visa/visas/index.htm

Visa Fees
http://www.vfs-uk-jp.com/visafees.aspx
http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/visa/visa_fee.pdf

Though the language level which British or French government requests is a bit challenging hardle for Japanese, but I do not think Japan would do the same for Britons or French expats here.

Just google the infamous terrorist, Kim Hyon Hui. If she had not been arrested, Korean people would have said, "It is Japan, AGAIN".
A Chinese woman arrested in her country for the fake Japanese passport to leave the coutry for Canada. She evern hired a Japanese teacher for 6 months. But it is quite rare that a Japanese woman would be loud when something happens.

http://www.recordchina.co.jp/group/g12490.html
2007窶扼10ﾅ椎ｽ30窶愿ｺﾂ、窶ｹU窶伉｢窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽ窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙栗Cﾆ恥ﾆ湛ﾆ竹ﾂーﾆ暖窶堙??督ｧﾂ出ﾂ坂?倪?堋ｵ窶堙ｦ窶堋､窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ鞘?板青ｫ窶堋ｪ窶徒窶ｹﾅｾ窶堙個出窶愿ｼﾂ坂?佛?ﾃ??板敘遅ﾅｽ@窶堙嫁ｽﾃｦ窶堙ｨ窶ｰﾅｸ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｦ窶堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ鞘?板青ｫ窶堋ｪ窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堙??堙ｭ窶堙溪?堋ｫ窶伉ｱ窶堋ｯ窶堋ｽ窶堙??堋ｱ窶堙ｫﾂ、窶堋ｻ窶堙娯?敖ｭ窶ｰﾂｹ窶堋ｪ窶堋ｨ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢窶堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶督ｧﾂ出ﾂ坂?倪?堋ｪ窶敖ｭﾅ陳ｩ窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽﾂ。

 

[ArmandV]

You joke about it, but it happens from time to time in the US.

Name one.

As I said, the government probably has enough data on their citizens to take action. Having these new procedures may or may not be necessarily be "fair," but it would be pointless to direct it against their own citizens as Japan does not seem to be an enclave of Islamic radicals, unlike Britain.

 

[Pachipro]

My question was a serious one -- what does the USA do with its biometric data? I said I didn't know. If you can point me to info that shows how and where the USA shares its data, I would be grateful. And, no, I wasn't so naive as to think Japan did this all on its own, but it is doing it in a different way and partly for different reasons that offend us.

It may offend you as it does all other visitors and alien residents of the US from Japan, The EU and Australia, etc. Read on and READ ALL the links.

From "The Guardian":

DNA database agreed for police across EU

No more secrets

Biometrics - great hope for world security or triumph for Big Brother? (Here they share data with the US and vice versa)

Others:

Germany Plans Passports with Biometric Data in November

The European Union has asked for an extension of the Oct. 26 deadline imposed by Washington (my bold text) to implement new U.S. rules on issuing biometric passports. Washington is demanding that all passports issued by Australia, Japan and EU member states after this deadline have biometric security elements for holders to enjoy visa-free U.S. visits of up to 90 days.

And From OUR OWN GOVERNMENT!:

JUSTIFICATION (VALIDATION): Sharing of all relevant data with and among agencies involved in the visa process or other homeland security efforts is a priority for the Department and a U.S. Government goal. Signed Memoranda of Understanding are matters of record and show progress toward optimal interagency cooperation on homeland security issues.

Target: Expand data sharing with other agencies and internationally.

Read again please. It says "AND INTERNATIONALLY"!

And if you think this does not mean internationally you are in denial.

And finally A Statement by Maura Harty, Assistant Secretary of State for Counselr Affairs, Senate Judiciary Committee, June 15, 2004

Some exerpts:

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the Administration's request for a two-year extension of the October 26, 2004 deadline for inclusion of biometric features in passports issued by countries which participate in the Visa Waiver Program (VWP).....

......The entire international community will benefit from the security advantages of biometric passports as part of our collective effort to combat terrorism......the Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act (EBSA)established October 26, 2004, as a deadline by which VWP countries must begin issuing their nationals only passports that incorporate biometric identifiers that comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) standards....

.....Now that we have the technical standards, all VWP countries can begin full development and deployment of their respective biometric programs. However, given the time it has taken to resolve these complex operational issues, few, if any, will be able to meet the October 26, 2004 deadline. For example, none of the larger countries – Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy or Spain -- will begin issuing passports with standardized biometrics by that deadline. The United Kingdom expects to begin in late 2005, Japan to complete transition to full production by April 2006. Others may not come on-line until well into 2006. This delay is not due to a lack of good will but due to significant scientific and technical challenges that has taken us to the cutting edge of changing technologies....

....These teams are also addressing law enforcement and data sharing cooperation with the U.S. government. All visits will be completed by July 15....

....Further, to continue to tighten our security posture, DHS announced in April that beginning September 30, 2004, it will enroll all VWP travelers in US-VISIT– the program that will track the entry and exit of foreign visitors by using electronically scanned fingerprints and photographs.

Therefore, that is why Japan is implementing it! It is not only happening in Japan IT IS WORLDWIDE! (at least in some parts of Oceiana [Asia, Austraila and New Zealand], all of the EU, and all of North and most of South America.)

And finally: Digital Civil Rights in Europe (An Open Letter to the European Parliament on Biometric Registration of all EU Citizens and Residents)

Do you need more links Glenski or is this sufficient? I have plenty.

My own passport, issued in March of this year DID NOT have the security chip as they are way behind schedule. Thank goodness for ineffectual government.

Or you can do the more sensible thing and fight the unjust policy. You have already conceded defeat. The fingerprinting ordeal shows that change can happen. (Sadly,it came back.)

One, or a handful of persons CANNOT do this on their own because the numbers are not there and they will be defeated or taken away or their homes and goods confiscated for some trumped up charges. (It has happened)

However, get enough people involved and you may at least delay the inevitable. More than enough and it can be defeated. Sadly, too many people today look at you (me) like you're (I'm) crazy and are too involved with what's on TV or paying their mortage and credit cards to even care. Therefore, they are unreachable, will never listen or believe it and I might as well be banging my head against a wall. One look at some of the responses in this thread will tell you that. "If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. They just don't get what is happening until it will be too late.

Most are so ignorant they say, "well if that's the truth then why isn't it on the major news?" Little do they know that the major news media are not as free as we'd like to believe they are and that most are owned by Wall Street and the international elite who are responsible for this program to keep track of every single individual.

Need more info? Just ask. It's all out there - for now.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.

 

[ArmandV]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.

Since everything is being shared, as Pachipro pointed out, staying at home will do no good. 1984 just came 23 years late.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

 

[Pachipro]

....since everything is being shared, staying at home will do no good. 1984 just came 23 years late.

And why did it come 23 years late? Because enough people took notice and action to delay it. It's still not in full swing yet.

Sadly, as I mentioned above, and some people seem to not care (the epitome of the typical person today, Japanese or otherwise) most people couldn't give a damn that their most basic human rights are slowly being eroded and that's what "they" are counting on. Unfortunately, these people are still in the majority.

As long as they have access to easy credit and can have "theirs" now and "no payments until 2010" they could care less and look at it as something that is not important or irrelevant. Little do they see that the noose is slowly tightening until one day they will say, "What happened? Why didn't I know this was coming?"

The more people that take action with letters, phone calls to their representatives, etc., the slower it will take for their plan to take effect. I'm doing it here and I hope others in other countries are doing it as well. It can be stopped if enough people take action. Re: The US Revolution and the Revolution in France that led to Bastille Day.

It can be done, after all we (the general population) outnumber "them", but they know how to seduce the populace with TV, irrelevant news about Britany Spears, Hollywood BS, sports, credit crunch, internet porn, the housing crisis, oil prices, gas prices, inevitable stock market crash, etc. They know how to keep 99% of the people in so much debt that they can't think about anything else.

Keep the population in debt and their attention diverted and if that doesn't work convince them they need a drug for their shakey leg syndrome or because they go to the bathroom a few times a day, or they have pre-diabetes or pre-hypertension, etc. and they won't see what is really going on as they will be too drugged to care. Sad. Very sad.

 

[ArmandV]

Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

That's exactly my point. All the things you mentioned are easily accessible to the government (and shared with other governments).

 

[ArmandV]

And why did it come 23 years late? Because enough people took notice and action to delay it. It's still not in full swing yet.
Sadly, as I mentioned above, and some people seem to not care (the epitome of the typical person today, Japanese or otherwise) most people couldn't give a damn that their most basic human rights are slowly being eroded and that's what "they" are counting on. Unfortunately, these people are still in the majority.

I hear you, I've railed against "Big Government" for over 30 years. The average Joe Sixpack is only concerned with what goes on his own fishbowl and is too busy or unconcerned to "storm the castle."

Just recently, I found that some Planning Commission wacko in Los Angeles city government wants to force people into using mass transit (What mass transit in L.A.?) by limiting the number of cars people who live in apartments can have. The media hasn't even covered this, I found out from the local chamber of commerce newsletter!

If Hillary becomes president (with Bill as Prince Willie), all of our data will likely end up at the Rose Law Firm or worse!

"Government big enough to give you anything you want is big enough to take away everything you have!"- Gerald R. Ford

 

[Pachipro]

It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

I have to agree here that you DO have a point, but the government always had access to that information just from the records of the bills you pay or from your drivers license. But never have they made such a great effort to keep track of every single individual and what they buy or where they go or who who they are dating, or what their blood type is, etc.

Do you not think it unusual that Fox News bought MySpace when it was hardly even making a profit? Why? So many people are posting so much personal information about themselves that it is a goldmine for "those" that want to keep track of you. And who owns Fox News? And what type or organization is Fox News? And who do they support in government and who supports them? Research it!

Why did Google buy YouTube for $1.65BILLION when it was in the red and NEVER made a profit? Same reasons. Why does Google supply info to the Chinese government on people who are dissidents and Google things detrimental to the Chinese government and they do the same for the US government. Everything you "Google" is kept on file for "future reference" Why was a chinese citizen sentenced to 10 years in jail for info provided by Yahoo? You or I could be taken away any day now for something we innocently searched on the internet or wrote on a website.

Therefore, if I suddenly disappear, I am dead or have been taken away and sent to Guantanimo for my subversive posts and "anti-Americanism" even though I do love my country. I just don't like what is happening to it's government.

 

[Pachipro]

I hear you, I've railed against "Big Government" for over 30 years. The average Joe Sixpack is only concerned with what goes on his own fishbowl and is too busy or unconcerned to "storm the castle."

Just recently, I found that some Planning Commission wacko in Los Angeles city government wants to force people into using mass transit (What mass transit in L.A.?) by limiting the number of cars people who live in apartments can have. The media hasn't even covered this, I found out from the local chamber of commerce newsletter!

If Hillary becomes president (with Bill as Prince Willie), all of our data will likely end up at the Rose Law Firm or worse!

"Government big enough to give you anything you want is big enough to take away everything you have!"- Gerald R. Ford

How right you are ArmandV and you will NEVER hear of it in the local media lest too many people know what is really going on. At least someONE out there is taking notice and taking some action. Phone calls and e-mails mean alot!

As long as something is required I will comply because to do otherwise would be foolish and a death sentence, but I willl still fight it with every ounce of my soul and try to convince those with even a minute amount of intelligence to do the same.

 

[Glenski]

Ooh, they are going to use your picture and fingerprints to come get you in the middle of the night and toss you in a gulag!

If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?

The government most likely has enough data on you already.

Good! Tell them that, and point out that they don't need this policy, then.

So your solution is for Japan to sit and wait for an attack from non-homegrown terrorists? Since Japan has participated in the Gulf, sooner or later some wacko terrorist group from that region may decide to hit Japan in some way. It is probably prudent for them to bolster security to be on the safe side.

You have not even been reading what I wrote. Some foreigners are exempt, including some that are members of nationalities the Japanese fear.

Moreover, Japan is going to let them go, yet persecute those of us who have lived here for decades as permanent residents (do you even know the term?). Unfair. And, history shows that there is no precedent to attack Japan. Saying terrorism is possible everywhere is a cop-out.

mr. sumo snr. wrote:

Would I be correct in assuming that Green Card holders get fingerprinted but nevertheless line up with US Citizens at immigration control?

If by "green card" you mean PR status, then yes, you will have to go through the separate lines and get printed and photographed with the other "potential terrorists".

ArmandV wrote:

Having these new procedures may or may not be necessarily be "fair," but it would be pointless to direct it against their own citizens as Japan does not seem to be an enclave of Islamic radicals, unlike Britain.

Incredible tunnel vision!
1) who says Islamic radicals are the only terrorists?
2) [and more importantly] "their own citizens" are the only people who have committed terrorist acts in Japan! You just don't get it, do you?

Will have to read the other posts later. Busy day today.

 

[ArmandV]

If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?

If you can't keep a civil finger on your keyboard, don't bother to read, ok?

2) [and more importantly] "their own citizens" are the only people who have committed terrorist acts in Japan!

So far, yes. That was then, this is now.

 

[Glenski]

Ah, "so far". That's the only "logical" weapon at your (and Japan's) disposal. So, in that case, why is it that they don't print and photograph all foreigners?

I'm very civil. Have I used profanity here? You are the one who used sarcasm instead of data and reasoning. I only replied to it.

 

[Glenski]

Re: DNA database agreed for police across EU

That article says people applying for visas and criminal suspects will be monitored.

In Japan, this is not the case. People who already have visas or PR will be monitored, as will people who are not under suspicion of specific crimes. The fact that the EU is doing this is not justification. The ministers who were interviewed on that article show that clearly it is not overwhelmingly accepted.

 

[pipokun]

Unfortunately, you are living in a leberal country with no backlash like the patriot law in your home country even after the unprecedented terror by the religious cult.
Actually there is a sutable law, Antisubversive Activities Law, but the govenment did not bring it up.
And you are living in the country where Beheiren, the anti-US activist group supported by the former USSR, could also be loud. It was an irony that the court reconfirmed the right of non-Japanese residents to be politically loud with the anti-Veitnam movement.
My only concern is that the system is not the one by a Japanese company or the govenment, but Accenture runs it. Cherry-cherry jr will explain the conspiracy years later.

 

[ArmandV]

Ah, "so far". That's the only "logical" weapon at your (and Japan's) disposal. So, in that case, why is it that they don't print and photograph all foreigners?
I'm very civil. Have I used profanity here? You are the one who used sarcasm instead of data and reasoning. I only replied to it.

You're the one there, why don't you ask them why aren't they fingerprinting all foreigners? Instead of playing message board games, why not get with other gaijins and organize protests?

I may be sarcastic (and satirical), but you uttered the following snarky comments:

1. "If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?" (See my last response to Pachipro.)

2. "Incredible tunnel vision!"

3. "You just don't get it, do you?"

4. "Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?"

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Glenski you aren't incorrect in any of what you say. But the answer to why this seemingly illogical and discriminatory policy exists is right in front of you. It has been elaborated upon quite thoroughly by Pachipro and he's not alone in his sentiments. It's not Japan that's doing this to foreigeners, it's foreign governments that are making other countries within their realm of interest and control do this in order for these countries to better track their own citizens. That's why I made the assumption earlier that its Westerners that are being targeted. By and large African nations and other developing countries aren't going to have the resources, the clout or the need to do this.

Once you accept this it all makes sense.

 

[Glenski]

You're the one there, why don't you ask them why aren't they fingerprinting all foreigners? Instead of playing message board games, why not get with other gaijins and organize protests?
I may be sarcastic (and satirical), but you uttered the following snarky comments:
1. "If you aren't going to be serious, don't bother to answer, ok?" (See my last response to Pachipro.)
2. "Incredible tunnel vision!"
3. "You just don't get it, do you?"
4. "Geez, have you not even been reading one single word?"

Those snarky comments were followed by statements that explained what they meant and were meant to educate, not satirize like you did. Gulag indeed!

Your last remark to pachipro talked of California and Hillary Clinton. Since none of that is related to the situation in Japan, I fail to see why you mention it here.

bakakanadajin wrote:

it's foreign governments that are making other countries within their realm of interest and control do this in order for these countries to better track their own citizens.

So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".

From pipokun's link to the Beheiren:
"Beheiren ("Betonamu ni Heiwa o Shimin Rengo" — Citizen's League for Peace in Vietnam) was a Japanese activist group that existed from 1965 to 1974. As a coalition of a few hundred anti-war groups it protested Japanese assistance to the United States during the Vietnam War."

"Members included Makoto Oda (Representative), Yuichi Yoshikawa (Secretary-General), Michitoshi Takabatake, Amon Miyamoto, Ichiyo Muto, Shinobu Yoshioka, Takeshi Kaiko, Yoshiyuki Tsurumi and Shunsuke Tsurumi."

Ok, aside from the fact that this is from Wikipedia, if we take it as true, I see 2 glaring facts worth mentioning.

1) This was over 30 years ago. How many members of that group are even alive, let alone still active?
2) Members included only Japanese citizens, once again adding fuel to the fire that it is Japanese citizens who should be monitored, not just suspicious foreigners (a group that I do not belong to, because I have no criminal record and do not belong to any subversive group).

As for me organizing and asking the pertinent questions, what makes you think I haven't? Coming here and trying to explain things is just one small step, but I can see it is a major hurdle for getting through to some people. We agree to disagree. I guess there can be no more said (but I will be fair about the whole thing and continue to look up those links earlier posted and then add any remarks I feel are relevant).

 

[Glenski]

Re: link "No more secrets"
Essentially, this is a good article that makes excellent points against the notion that Tony Blair feels the national identity database is not a Big Brother prototype. It is. And, there are many flaws in such a network.

Moreover, even the Japanese people fought against having national identity cards (and won) recently. The fact that the Japanese government screwed up royally in identifying who was on the pension plan (and then hid such information and the coverup for decades) is another major chink in the armor to show that you can't trust the government(s) to keep track of its own people, so how are they going to be trusted to maintain security on foreigners?

 

[Homerduff]

I'm not sure if these new procedures for foreigners entering Japan will do any good. I doubt there's a significant crime rate in Japan committed by foreigners. In fact, it will only make foreigners look more dangerous to Japanese people.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

So, the USA has twisted Japan's arm to set up the new policy in Japan? Please show me where this is documented. From all accounts I have read, Japan decided this on its own "merit".

I would not have access to documentation like that any more than I'd have access to reports on whether or not the US was truly asleep at the wheel or in fact driving the bus on 9/11. But if you base your opinion solely on official reports and whats available on CNN you'll never get the whole story. In fact, this is precisely the kind of thinking anyone who wishes to pull wool over someone else's eyes counts on from outside observers.

That being said, the sentiments and reactions of those who have forgotten more about a given subject than we'll ever hope to know as they pertain to an issue are good indicators and pulse points. To me, it is about as good as acquring the subversive and classified documentation itself. This is as logical as one moving off the tracks upon hearing the horn vs. waiting to be hit so as to confirm the realness of the train. Naturally speaking, the inclination to question things and beg caution on issues such as this is more closely related to survival than the illogical 'thinking' human who waits until all other options are exhausted, at which point it's too late and the unbelievable but admittedly real truth is staring back at them.

It also goes something like this:

America: You're with us or you're against us.
Allies: ok..
America: Because you're with us, you're terrorist targets.
Allies: ok..
America: You're targets so.. we'd like you to install these cameras everywhere because YOUR security is at risk!
Allies: But-
America: You're either with us or against us!
Allies: ok..
America: By the way, this will make your administration look really good because you have X, Y and Z problems, which this system also targets.
Allies: OK!


Konichiwa! Japan will fingerprint foreigners starting in November

In a recent speech here in Japan, Barry Steinhardt, Director of the American Civil Liberties Union Program on Technology and Liberty had this to say:
"Officials of my government have been traveling the world urging other nations to cooperate with and join the United States in creating vast new infrastructures for the routine invasion of privacy, all supposedly to help defeat terrorism. They have in many cases been pressuring and sometimes bullying other nations into going along with this approach.
The Japanese Version of US Visit is a product of that pressure."

http://japan.shadowofiris.com/politics/the-new-fingerprint-law/

I'd like to say I find the whole response to 9/11 strange, but unfortunately I can't. It was all too typical. My guess is the program in Japan is a result of gaiatsu on America's part. This is indeed quite sad.

NB: gaiatsu means foregin pressure


Program 'US Visit':
http://www.dhs.gov/xtrvlsec/programs/content_multi_image_0006.shtm

 

[ifjames]

Share info with other countries...gasp....the horror. Stay home if you don't like the policy. As for those who are permanent residents. I do feel that you should have some leniancy.

Oh, I understand that already. Just the fact that you have electricity, use a phone, use the internet, the government already KNOWS who you are and what you're up to. I never imagine myself alone anymore ever, or that I am ever truly in a private area. It is impossible to insulate yourself anymore. Is it right or wrong, well it all depends. The funny thing too is that how many people post their picture on the internet, how do you control who is using your picture? We post so much about ourselves that we ultimately have no control ove,r that is amazes me that when you are forewarned that your fingerprints and picture will be taken we panic and freak out. We give it away freely every day!

That's exactly my point. All the things you mentioned are easily accessible to the government (and shared with other governments).

I agree: its all about "too hot in the kitchen" and "when in Rome" etc its time we all played nicely in this thread and accept that if we wish to enter a country we must abide by their regulations