"ever"
- Thread starter nekocat
- Start date
- 19 Jan 2005
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(1) Slightly more than half the people think that a big earthquake will ever occur there.Do you think this sentence is natural?
Should a big earthquake ever occur there, I believe that slightly less than half the people will be surprised. (since less than half believe one will occur)
In both examples, ever means "at any time"
Did you ever smoke a cigarette?
Do you believe you will ever visit New York?
A little over 5% of the population will ever travel overseas.
Not exactly a great answer, but I believe others will have more input. I hope it helps anyway.
- 21 May 2003
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Might be officially OK, but.....
I think a normal person would say the same sentence and leave out "ever" completely. To my ear, "Slightly more than half the people think that a big earthquake will occur there sometime in the future." makes more sence.
Uncle Frank
☝
I think a normal person would say the same sentence and leave out "ever" completely. To my ear, "Slightly more than half the people think that a big earthquake will occur there sometime in the future." makes more sence.
Uncle Frank
☝
- 4 Sep 2007
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While the sentence is certainly something a native could say, there are better ways to say it. I think Uncle Frank's version is probably the best way.
- 18 Feb 2007
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I sense a problem with 'ever' in that sentence, but perhaps it's a (mostly) British thing, judging from the location of a lot of the good posters who've replied on this question so far..?
In any case, we do often hear those sorts of sentences in the UK now, though usually in simpler form - none so complex (and thus, as awkward) as the one here.
mos
In any case, we do often hear those sorts of sentences in the UK now, though usually in simpler form - none so complex (and thus, as awkward) as the one here.
mos
- 28 Jul 2005
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For my two bits worth:
I would again say, we need to see contextual setting. In this case, we will be able to see the style of language the overall text uses in which this sentence is embedded. That will, for one, give us a slightly better understanding of the word 'natural' as used in the OP question, can be taken.
I posit, with not even the very least bit of ulterior motive, that the uncertainty of the question asked, will leave some proportionately equal uncertainty in the answer--in other words, it will leave a wider range of answers than maybe one would have hoped for. What do we mean by 'natural?'
A commonly used pattern in colloquial English? I would answer no, it's not natural. Grammatically correct? I would answer yes, it is. A fairly well distributed representative of what would be found in modern novel/short story writtings? I would say more negative than affirmative there. An example pattern of what would often enough be found in documentary or journalistic writtings? I would say yes.
I would again say, we need to see contextual setting. In this case, we will be able to see the style of language the overall text uses in which this sentence is embedded. That will, for one, give us a slightly better understanding of the word 'natural' as used in the OP question, can be taken.
I posit, with not even the very least bit of ulterior motive, that the uncertainty of the question asked, will leave some proportionately equal uncertainty in the answer--in other words, it will leave a wider range of answers than maybe one would have hoped for. What do we mean by 'natural?'
A commonly used pattern in colloquial English? I would answer no, it's not natural. Grammatically correct? I would answer yes, it is. A fairly well distributed representative of what would be found in modern novel/short story writtings? I would say more negative than affirmative there. An example pattern of what would often enough be found in documentary or journalistic writtings? I would say yes.
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Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
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It doesn't sound natural to me - never in place of ever would sound natural, but then the meaning is different: "..... believe that a big earthquake will never occur there." In the case that they do believe an earthquake will occur, this sounds more natural to me: ".......believe that a big earthquake will occur there" (leaving out the ever. Or ".....believe that a big earthquake could/might occur there."
- 4 Sep 2007
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In that case, nekocat, the meaning would change a bit once you dropped "slightly". The absence of "slightly" implies that there's a significant amount of people over that halfway mark. As for how natural that would sound, the presence or absence of "slightly" doesn't change how natural the sentence sounds.
- 27 Dec 2003
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(1) is OK, (2) is not.
"Ever" is only used in questions and negative statements.
However, I am curious as to whether there is a difference in British vs. American usage.
~~~
I can already think of an example which breaks my rule.
"If you are ever in town, look me up."
"Ever" is only used in questions and negative statements.
However, I am curious as to whether there is a difference in British vs. American usage.
~~~
I can already think of an example which breaks my rule.
"If you are ever in town, look me up."
I still think both sound fine, especially if you were to just say it in passing when talking to your friend or something. But I will say, it would be better to drop the ever completely. I believe it will still keep it's "at any time" meaning without it.
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- 28 Jul 2005
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Could you please more concretely tell us what you have in mind with the terms 'natural' and 'ok?'
Sarapva
Midnight and Snowflake
- 25 Feb 2007
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I don't think that changing the first part of the sentence makes any difference (in terms of how the sentence sounds) in the last part. "Ever" still sounds a little funny in the sentence. But if the sentence reads "More than half/Slightly more than half the people don't think a big earthquake will ever occur there", "ever" sounds perfectly fine.
- 18 Feb 2007
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Absolutely!! And within Sarapva's examples there lie the feeling I myself have for 'ever' and the usage I make of it
- 4 Sep 2007
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I must disagree with your reply, Buntaro. The only thing changed in (2) was the dropping of "slightly". Both sentences are in the affirmative and are not questions. Therefore, by your grammatical logic presented in the post, both sentences are incorrect.
- 18 Feb 2007
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I thought the same, but I think it's just a slip of the keyboard, as it were - Buntaro clearly knows a fair bit!!
'If + ever' is a slightly special kind of construction; and so the rules there change somewhat.
nekocat
先輩
- 3 Apr 2007
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- Thread starter
- #21
I think if we change a little bit of Buntaro's statement ""Ever" is only used in questions and negative statements.", it's consistent!
slightly (Slightly more than half the people think that a big earthquake will ever occur there.)
If... ("If you are ever in town, look me up.")
Although neither "slightly" nor "If" is negative, both set the condition for subjunctive sentiment.
"More than half..." is a declarative sentence, but "Slightly more than..." is a sentence with a little subjunctive element.
Likewise, "if..." is a subjunctive clause (not in the strict grammar sense).
Although some may not be happy with the use of "ever" in either of the sentences, these (slightly, if) words seem to set up the condition for using "ever".
That's my guess.
slightly (Slightly more than half the people think that a big earthquake will ever occur there.)
If... ("If you are ever in town, look me up.")
Although neither "slightly" nor "If" is negative, both set the condition for subjunctive sentiment.
"More than half..." is a declarative sentence, but "Slightly more than..." is a sentence with a little subjunctive element.
Likewise, "if..." is a subjunctive clause (not in the strict grammar sense).
Although some may not be happy with the use of "ever" in either of the sentences, these (slightly, if) words seem to set up the condition for using "ever".
That's my guess.
- 30 Apr 2007
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- 19 Jan 2005
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But, then again, doesn't "ever" add a sense of finality or a strong opinion/feeling to the sentence vs not using the word? Compare:
1. I don't want you to call me again. (Ok, cool. He/she doesn't want me to call, but maybe if I call sometime in the future it may be ok.)
2. I don't want you to ever call me again again. (Wow, he/she is really serious, I doubt they would talk to me if I called again so I better not even try.)
Therefore, I believe that in the sentence, "Slightly more than half the people think a big earthquake will ever occur there" adds a sense of a strong feeling, opinion or conviction vs not using the word "ever".
1. I don't want you to call me again. (Ok, cool. He/she doesn't want me to call, but maybe if I call sometime in the future it may be ok.)
2. I don't want you to ever call me again again. (Wow, he/she is really serious, I doubt they would talk to me if I called again so I better not even try.)
Therefore, I believe that in the sentence, "Slightly more than half the people think a big earthquake will ever occur there" adds a sense of a strong feeling, opinion or conviction vs not using the word "ever".
- 28 Jul 2005
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I think we will find, Pachipro san, that the negative will make the difference here. The negative can be emotionally stressed by 'ever' whereas the positive will very, very seldom be emotionally stressed by this word.
Even in non-grammatically correct formats--such as 'Never ever call me again !!' (and then she slams the reciever down, causing a small earthquake) are used like this. A postive might be something like, 'Please, do call me again !!' ( and then she thinks to herself...he's mine now...).
Well, I'll give room for a margin of error here because 'ever' may be used by some for emotional stress in a positive sentence, but I would again say, it would be very uncommon.
Nekocat san, what does 'natural' mean?
Even in non-grammatically correct formats--such as 'Never ever call me again !!' (and then she slams the reciever down, causing a small earthquake) are used like this. A postive might be something like, 'Please, do call me again !!' ( and then she thinks to herself...he's mine now...).
Well, I'll give room for a margin of error here because 'ever' may be used by some for emotional stress in a positive sentence, but I would again say, it would be very uncommon.
Nekocat san, what does 'natural' mean?
- 4 Sep 2007
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Agreed. Adding "ever" to this positive sentence certainly enhances its meaning, and is important to get the proper idea across, but since it's uncommonly used in this manner, it sounds strange to some ears. Better to word it in other ways.
