Surely the meaning of 'gaijin' is contextual?!

[MeAndroo]

The Japanese exchange students my friends and I had gotten to know in college used to amuse us with their use of the term "gaijin." Despite being around us in Japan and America for more than a year, they'd often refer to us as such in conversation with each other. We would have fun at their expense by remarking rather loudly that in America, they seemed to be confusing who was gaijin and who wasn't. Obviously they use the term to mean non-Japanese, but it was entertaining anyway.

 

[William Spencer]

Another question then...

thanks to all who contributed to this thread even though it got a little bumpy at times, i am getting the hang of this site. so let me ask a series of questions about cross-cultural adaptation in japan.

1) is there pressure on you to conform to japanese culture?
2) has japan accepted you with open arms?
3) do you actually want to adapt to japanese culture?

while these questions are pretty broad, i am trying to make sense out of the whole cross-cultural adaptation process....

The Japanese exchange students my friends and I had gotten to know in college used to amuse us with their use of the term "gaijin." Despite being around us in Japan and America for more than a year, they'd often refer to us as such in conversation with each other. We would have fun at their expense by remarking rather loudly that in America, they seemed to be confusing who was gaijin and who wasn't. Obviously they use the term to mean non-Japanese, but it was entertaining anyway.

i assume that in korea and china and other places that equivalent terms are used. here in australia, the general terms 'asian' or 'middle eastern' are used to describe what appears to be any non-white aussie...foreigner itself i guess something i don't hear much in sydney...☝

 

[Goldiegirl]

These are purely my observations of my time in Japan.

1) There was no pressure to conform, other than following basic house rules about taking shoes off upon entry and the whole bath procedure. Other than that I was told to just be myself as I would never be Japanese. I was also told on numerous occasions that I was "kawaii" because of my "gajin" ways of doing things and how I spoke Japanese. I am not saying that I didn't want to try and fit in more. It's hard being so different.

2) I was accepted within my circle of family and friends. I was told to take advantage of my foreigness because all my mistakes and social blunders were/are forgiven because I am not Japanese. They accepted me despite the fact that I am so different. I accept them as well even though they are different to me!

3) I don't know that I want to adapt to Japanese culture. What I do want is to not feel so outside of their culture. I want to know what the rules are, but that doesn't mean I want to practice them.

 

[Glenski]

1) is there pressure on you to conform to japanese culture?
2) has japan accepted you with open arms?
3) do you actually want to adapt to japanese culture?

while these questions are pretty broad, i am trying to make sense out of the whole cross-cultural adaptation process....
Answers are going to vary with every individual. "Pretty broad" doesn't even do these questions justice.

Sigh. My answers, regardless...
1) If you mean certain aspects of business culture, then yes. You can't expect to work with western morals or ethics or other scruples over here. In my personal life (married to a Japanese), there are certain unspoken pressures, too, but none that my wife and I can't handle (so far). If the situation was reversed (that is, if we lived in the USA), she would probably feel the same pressures.

2) No, and it never will. Get used to it. People who have become naturalized citizens are not accepted wholly, either. I have been here almost 10 years and currently hold Permanent Resident status, but there are many things about Japan that doesn't accept me simply because I'm a foreigner.

3) Yes, but not to the extent of "going native". I don't walk around in kimonos or yukatas. I don't read or write haiku. I don't make a point of going to onsens for their simple hedonistic pleasures and gaze at autumn foliage or spring blossoms. I have retained my individuality yet found a suitable compromise in my life here. After all, I chose to live here, and this is not my country, so why should I try to lead an American lifestyle here 100% of the time? In fact, there are certain advantages to being a foreigner here -- circumstances that allow you to get away with certain things, but this is where I choose to live and work, so I respect what I face and make do as best I can.

 

[William Spencer]

1)
Answers are going to vary with every individual. "Pretty broad" doesn't even do these questions justice.

in my research i use young yun kim's theory of cross-cultural adaptation and in it she talks about conformity pressure and host reciprocity. my hunch is that japan has very low conformity pressure, ie most japanese would not expect non-japanese to conform to japanese norms or mores. there are many reasons for this which may be another discussion.
the other part concerns how open japanese society is to accept others (ie non-japanese). both questions need to be answered in the academic lit. on this topic. to my knowledge nobody has answered them. the questions are designed to broad to try to get some initial thoughts...

1)
Sigh. My answers, regardless...

couldn't we think of this as more of a converation rather than merely giving an answer? surely there's a depth to your answers which could be probed?

1)
1) If you mean certain aspects of business culture, then yes. You can't expect to work with western morals or ethics or other scruples over here. In my personal life (married to a Japanese), there are certain unspoken pressures, too, but none that my wife and I can't handle (so far). If the situation was reversed (that is, if we lived in the USA), she would probably feel the same pressures.

so your saying that there's a movement in conformity pressure depending on the situation? i'd say there's a number of MACRO situations such as business culture and home culture as well as many MICRO situations within these MACRO situations that trigger the need for the confomity of lack of it...

1)
2) No, and it never will. Get used to it. People who have become naturalized citizens are not accepted wholly, either. I have been here almost 10 years and currently hold Permanent Resident status, but there are many things about Japan that doesn't accept me simply because I'm a foreigner.

so host reciprocity is also fairly low.

1)
3) Yes, but not to the extent of "going native". I don't walk around in kimonos or yukatas. I don't read or write haiku. I don't make a point of going to onsens for their simple hedonistic pleasures and gaze at autumn foliage or spring blossoms. I have retained my individuality yet found a suitable compromise in my life here. After all, I chose to live here, and this is not my country, so why should I try to lead an American lifestyle here 100% of the time? In fact, there are certain advantages to being a foreigner here -- circumstances that allow you to get away with certain things, but this is where I choose to live and work, so I respect what I face and make do as best I can.

now this is what i'd like to understand...when say a theorist talks about 'fitting in' i wonder what one has to fit in to...any help? and the idea of 'going native' is also a good example. do you cringe when other 'gaijin' attempt to go native?

cheers

 

[Glenski]

William Spencer wrote:

couldn't we think of this as more of a converation rather than merely giving an answer? surely there's a depth to your answers which could be probed?

Your questions are, in my opinion, far too broad to really get answers that would satisfy you, because everyone's experience is so different. If you are truly an academic seeking research-style answers, get off an anonymous discussion forum and do proper sociological research in a library. No offense intended, but can you see my point? If you want to probe for more info, be my guest, but be prepared to reap the shoddiness of the rewards, even from my own experiences here.

so your saying that there's a movement in conformity pressure depending on the situation? i'd say there's a number of MACRO situations such as business culture and home culture as well as many MICRO situations within these MACRO situations that trigger the need for the confomity of lack of it...

"Movement"? I have no idea what this means. Japan isolated itself from the rest of the world for over 200 years, and that wasn't all that long ago. Many aspects of its culture stem from that, and they are still around today. Nothing is really "moving".

"Conformity" of foreigners within Japanese society is a mixed bag. Work in a Japanese company, and you may or may not be expected to conform to certain norms. Depends on the company and your role. The "need for conformity" exists in all nations when you talk about business situations. There're just different levels of it. I don't claim to understand it all, but I can give you examples.

so host reciprocity is also fairly low.

Is that what I wrote? I thought I merely wrote that foreigners are always considered foreigners here, even after they become naturalized. Just my opinion, of course, based on what little I've seen. If you want to know more, ask a few hundred naturalized citizens for a good sample size. Just remember to separate the Koreans and Chinese from the rest.

now this is what i'd like to understand...when say a theorist talks about 'fitting in' i wonder what one has to fit in to...any help?

Well, I'm not a theorist. I've just lived here for almost 10 years and have married into a Japanese family. Foreigners have to "fit into" every aspect of life -- social, political, economic, etc. -- don't you think? To what level they fit in depends on many things, including the foreigners' inclination and need.

Business:
Want to attend every hanami and drinking party? How about staying as late as the J employees? Schoozing behind closed doors to get certain things done before meetings take place to rubber stamp them? Or are you (the foreigner) just going to be satisfied with doing your minimal best and leaving at 5pm to try enjoying a western lifestyle in an eastern land?

Social:
Do you (the foreigner) join in the neighborhood tree planting along the streets? Clean up around the apartment complex? Take your turn to route the monthly clipboard? Do you pay the NHK man, or avoid him by feigning ignorance? Do you attend weddings/funerals in traditional J style, or just stick to your western ways? Is "gaman" and "shoganai" part of your regular vocabulary, or do you gripe around the barbecue with your fellow foreigners about the J lifestyle and social system?

and the idea of 'going native' is also a good example. do you cringe when other 'gaijin' attempt to go native?

Pretty much, yes, I cringe. I've seen foreign women imitate Japanese expressions and gestures to the point of making me almost ill. Watching some of the foreign "talento" do similar things is an embarrassment to me.

But enough of my answers in this "conversation". What's your take on this?

 

[William Spencer]

thanks glenski for your candid answers and views. your experiences are just the thing i'm looking for! this type of talk cannot be found in any library. my view has been influenced by many things including the work i do here at the uni. and also my own experiences of learning japanese and living in japan and returning there on an irregular basis.

i guess one initial answer to what i think is that as human beings we long to belong be it in our own cultures or another. so we do some extraodrinary things to enact this belonging like imitate, deny our heritage and attempt to pass as the native regardless of what the consequences are. but this in part could be feulled by the language learning industry to name just one example. when a teacher says 'listen and repeat' what is she or he actually mean? repeat the sentence after the native speaker and then try to sound like that speaker even if i as a man have to repeat after the female on the tape? how many men have told me that my japanese sounds like a woman or okama? heaps!

the non-native seems to be the ham in the sandwich: you have to do X to be accepted but don't do it too well coz that's going to threaten me as a native.

can we continue the conversation?

cheers

 

[Glenski]

Ask away, William, publicly or privately.

 

[William Spencer]

Ask away, William, publicly or privately.

what makes you cringe when you see a non-native attempts to go native?

 

[KirinMan]

1) is there pressure on you to conform to japanese culture?

Personally yes I was under quite a bit of pressure from my father in law to adapt to life here in Japan. There were times that I wanted to wring his neck for some of the things he insinuated and for somethings that he actually did. However over the course of time I realize that it was for the best that he was as harsh and strict as he was. Wait a minute he still is harsh and strict but we get along rather well now. Took long enough though.

There was no pressure as such from my work environment in any overt way, but there was always or nearly always a feeling that I was expected to understand. But then again that could have been me and not the people I was working with. I will say though that my senses were pretty well tuned to the differences though.

2) has japan accepted you with open arms?

Tough question for me to answer, in a sense yes, but I haven't been through all of Japan only my little corner of it, and that imo also makes a difference. It isn't that hard to get accepted in one place but to expect the same treatment somewhere else is another matter. It takes time, as it would if one would move within their own country as well.

3) do you actually want to adapt to japanese culture?

Sure I see no reason not to, just because I adapt to the culture here doesnt mean that I have lost my own identity. Those are two different things entirely.

 

[Glenski]

what makes you cringe when you see a non-native attempts to go native?

I thought I gave you an answer to that. What more can I say?

To see a fellow foreigner attempt to imitate the mannerisms of a Japanese person is the most cringe-inspiring thing, I think. Some mannerisms are things that we do unconsciously, and for someone to consciously is pitiful. I'm talking about women who cover their mouths when they smile or laugh, for example. Or respond in other ways totally out of their own ingrained character. (I'm not talking about such useful CONSCIOUS mannerisms like waving palm-down to urge someone to come to you, or "chopping" your empty hand between people to silently say excuse me so you can pass.)

To see some talento take on the local hairstyles is also a bit gut-wrenching to me. Patrick Harlan excels in this with his overly youthful squirrel-like cut. David Spector and his rubbery dyed hairdo just reeks of conformity with Japanese talento weirdness.

To have a fellow foreigner use Japanese with other foreigners when no Japanese person is around, especially words or phrases that they know in their own language. "Itadakimasu" is especially irritating to me, especially when I know that person would otherwise say nothing and just grab for their utensils. Even that obnoxious "eehhhhhhh" (with a question mark or exclamation mark intonation of surprise) gets me when I'm with a fellow foreigner, and I know they would otherwise have a remark from their home country bursting from their lips.

 

[William Spencer]

There were times that I wanted to wring his neck for some of the things he insinuated and for somethings that he actually did. However over the course of time I realize that it was for the best that he was as harsh and strict as he was. Wait a minute he still is harsh and strict but we get along rather well now. Took long enough though.

thanks for contributing. hmmm this is an interesting answer. interesting because it points to how the influence of a family member, be it through marriage, can influence the situation. i also wonder if there's an element of male-to-male power being at play here too? was it a type of resocialisation for you? is that how it felt?

i have been reading the thread 'is gaijin a racist slur?' which was posted in 2006 with considerable interest. Maciamo writes about integrating into japanese society. integration is certainly the buzz word in australia and the uk as well as other parts of europe thesedays. again i wonder what the non-japanese is integrating into (toogoo suru 窶慊敖坂?｡窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ is that the japanese word for this context?)?

cheers

 

[William Spencer]

thanks for the reply. i could have asked, 'why does it makes you cringe?' but the answe you gave seems to answer that...

To see a fellow foreigner attempt to imitate the mannerisms of a Japanese person is the most cringe-inspiring thing, I think. Some mannerisms are things that we do unconsciously, and for someone to consciously is pitiful.

in japanese language class here we teach a certain amount of imitation (gestures, values, language [pronunciation and grammar]) which for the beginner learner (not user) is quite conscious.

how do others feel about this? do others try to act 'japanese' in situations? i bow (now in japanese company but when i returned to sydney after 3 yrs of being in japan without a break, i bowed all the time. it was part of my reentry shock!) and point to my nose and count in a japanese way etc etc. which i guess would make glenski gut-wrench!

To have a fellow foreigner use Japanese with other foreigners when no Japanese person is around, especially words or phrases that they know in their own language. "Itadakimasu" is especially irritating to me, especially when I know that person would otherwise say nothing and just grab for their utensils. Even that obnoxious "eehhhhhhh" (with a question mark or exclamation mark intonation of surprise) gets me when I'm with a fellow foreigner, and I know they would otherwise have a remark from their home country bursting from their lips.

this is great. okay so why do people do this? habit? showing off? stupidity? newness? english or other languages doesn't have that 'eeehhhhh' thing? lack of awareness? power over others: i do it as a sign that i have been here longer than you.

i have to admit to doing some of this even here in sydney with non-japanese speaking friends because when i reflect on it, it seems to be integrated into my selfhood. ah so that's what integration means?

cheers

 

[gaijinalways]

Hmm, but why do it with a non-Japanese who may not even realize the significance of your mannerism or comment. Sometimes within a region, a foreign mannerism or expression may be used naturally; examples being 'hasta la vista baby' or 'adios amigo' (become part of the culture), but I would imagine in most places outside of Japan, except for 'Sayonarra', this would not be the case.

 

[William Spencer]

Hmm, but why do it with a non-Japanese who may not even realize the significance of your mannerism or comment. Sometimes within a region, a foreign mannerism or expression may be used naturally; examples being 'hasta la vista baby' or 'adios amigo' (become part of the culture), but I would imagine in most places outside of Japan, except for 'Sayonarra', this would not be the case.

yeah, when i returned after those 3 years of basically being immersed into japan (if you've ever read david l. mcconnel's book 'importing diversity: inside japan's jet program' there are some great caricatures about JETS on pages194-206. i personally related to several: homo sapiens grammarian: 'don't speak english. i need to practice my japanese' and homo sapiens wanna-be: i really feel at home here. the japanese lifestyle is the best in the world' come to mind), my friends at the time were kind of confused and often said why are bowing so much and please stop saying sorry all the time.

i do it because for the past 30 years i have been exposed to things japanese both here in australia and in japan and now in my work place where there are expectations that i act in some way as a japanese (speaking foreigner who should know how to act even though i resist too) given my role as a japanese language teacher. 30 years is a reasonable time for appropriation to occur and even when i am switching back and forth during any given time and place, i invariably mix up the self i present. i read books by liza dalby (the "only foreigner who has ever been a geisha") and others who have written about their time in japan like donald keene and notice that they too have appropriated certain actions that could be construed as 'japanese'.

whether my values have changed is another question but i can tell you that department and other speciality shop service sucks big time in sydney australia. aah to wait 10 mins for something to be wrapped perfectly...

is it simply yearning for the other...to be the other whch is actually unattainable? the wanna-be caricature may be cruel but it could be correct...

is that when someone is called 窶堙問?堙ｱ窶堙闇?Oﾂ人ﾂ？ which even further causes a virtual tsunami of angst?

☝

 

[gaijinalways]

Ah, I get it in your case, didn't realize that you are a foreign Japanese instructor. That might make sense in your case, still seems odd if you're living outside of Japan. But hey, whatever makes you happy (though having friends who think you're odd is not always a bad thing).

 

[KirinMan]

"is that when someone is called 窶堙問?堙ｱ窶堙闇?Oﾂ人ﾂ？ which even further causes a virtual tsunami of angst?"

Not really in my case it is said to me with affection, and meant purely as a joke and compliment as well.

Then again if they called me 窶堙問?堙ｱ窶堙按人, then it would be more of a cause for concern or tsunami of angst.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

i think the word 'gaijin' is similar to the way we use the word 'immigrant' here in the West. Under certain circumstances the term can be deemed derogatory, and under other circumstances the word immigrant or something like it such as 'new-comer', can be used openly. Being such a homogenous soceity, probably the most homogenous among industrialized modern nations, and having a relatively difficult language to learn, it's natural that gaijin are something that are ideologically held at arms length and they fail to really break into the 'naturalized' state that immigrants to Canada or the US manage to achieve. The West's culture is bleak and consumer based.. to socially fit-in over here all you have to do is speak decent English, not be too over-zealous in your religious or ethnic convictions, buy/own certain things and enjoy certain kinds of music and food. In Japan, with a culture thats so many centuries old, the subtleties contained in the language and culture are difficult to understand and simply being a fan of pop culture, Toyotas and sushi is nowhere near enough. Just my 二円。

 

[Mike Cash]

To have a fellow foreigner use Japanese with other foreigners when no Japanese person is around, especially words or phrases that they know in their own language.

You do have to allow, though, for cases where Japanese is the only shared language between the foreigners. I have had such situations with a couple of Chinese, some Iranians, and most often with South Americans (as they are quite common in my area).

Many is the time I have wished I had studied Portuguese in university. At the time, I just couldn't foresee any possible use for it.

And I do believe the thread would have gone very differently from the start had the OP indicated his profession at the beginning.

 

[Glenski]

You do have to allow, though, for cases where Japanese is the only shared language between the foreigners. I have had such situations with a couple of Chinese, some Iranians, and most often with South Americans (as they are quite common in my area).

No arguments there, Mike. I was referring, of course, to "fellow foreigners" in the sense that we were both native English speakers, but your example is a valid exception.

 

[William Spencer]

thanks to all who have replied. it's hard to know sometimes how much to disclose, so apologies for not being more frank with my details.

i'm interested in the impact that learning another language, in this case japanese, has on the sense of self hence my asking about why cringe when seeing foreigners act like japanese. there's a technical term: contact situation which basically means a situation in which a native speaker and a non-native speaker come together. since i am the non-native speaker in class, for example, my japanese colleagues still deem it to be a contact situation since i am communicating in japanese (like mike cash's situation in which japanese is the lingua franca). so there's an expectation that behaviour is japanese like, whatever that means. i am a 49yr white guy so should my behaviour be like a 49yr japanese guy? and with that there are many other issues to solve.

i coined the term 'identity slippage' and i am interested in how we slip between our identities by accessing our different languages. i have to say that at the beginning stages of language learning (classroom, immersion in japan etc.) identity slippage seems to be much more profound and there are more eureka moments (which isn't that surprising). in my own case (after studying the language for more than 32yrs) i don't seem to identity slip that much these days only when i am confronted by certain things in japanese. for example, i'm coming to japan in july august for a month and i am making arrangements to go to the kyoto international manga museum. i have written several emails to one of the staff members there in japanese, however, the confrontation is in the keigo i used. sure i might be polite in english but as my colleagues kept saying to me 'kyooto da kara' use more keigo.

i guess the point is trying to understand the triggers the bring on these explosions of japanese like behaviour. and really are they merely -like since as i am sure you are all aware, a gaijin isn't a japanese.

☝

 

[pugtm]

3) Yes, but not to the extent of "going native". I don't walk around in kimonos or yukatas. I don't read or write haiku. I don't make a point of going to onsens for their simple hedonistic pleasures and gaze at autumn foliage or spring blossoms. I have retained my individuality yet found a suitable compromise in my life here. After all, I chose to live here, and this is not my country, so why should I try to lead an American lifestyle here 100% of the time? In fact, there are certain advantages to being a foreigner here

And what is so wrong if you did those things. Are you less you for enjoying them? And would some Japanese come and hang you for looking at the cherry blossoms or wearing a kimono? I see nothing wrong with "going native" as long as you understand whence you came and were you are going. The Japanese don't have a monopoly on these things. In fact in the united states there are similar things to onsen, and other stuff(when i lived in New Jersey we would always make a point of it to go out during fall to an observatory and just pick nick there). We have our own poetry. And furthermore anytime i go somewhere to visit i always try to act as native as possible. Whether it be Toronto Canada or Israel. Now i don't advocate getting that surgery for epicanthic folds but i should point out that it goes the other way too. There are Orientals that get surgeries to make their eyes look western. And seriously Americans have given so much of their culture away that it's no harm to want to be as Japanese as possible or some other culture. in this era of globalization i bet even the emperor of japan listens to American music. You cant isolate yourself anymore. Though i think we should adopt several customs of japan here in the united states. Such as better manners and bowing.(i already bow but that is because i hate shaking hands and am Jewish so it's originally my custom as well).
Also to those insulted by gaijin examine you're conscience. How many times have i heard a person being called a FOB.(only thing is that immigrants in America say this too. It was actually a bunch of Indians calling some Chinese kid a fob which i found funny.)

 

[Goldiegirl]

I think Glenski was looking for compromise in his life in Japan. He enjoys his "American-ness" but at the same time is willing to behave in a Japanese fashion as well. He sounds to me to be aiming for the middle of the road and I think that's great. As for going native, I think it's when people go over the top, it seems fake and immature and to me an insult to the "native" people. I don't think the remark on Haiku was any way saying that there isn't any poetry in the USA. I think the point is he doesn't feel a need to write Japanese poetry to have a complete life there....

 

[pugtm]

a valid point.
But i still hate it when foreigners live in another country and refuse to act normally and like natives. If you live in that country respect their customs. if i lived in japan i would try my hardest to act Japanese out of respect. Just like i expect any Japanese person living in Israel or the united states to act Israeli or American.

 

[William Spencer]

a valid point.
But i still hate it when foreigners live in another country and refuse to act normally and like natives. If you live in that country respect their customs. if i lived in japan i would try my hardest to act Japanese out of respect. Just like i expect any Japanese person living in Israel or the united states to act Israeli or American.

imitation can be the worst insult. in fact one of my uni. colleagues has collected data which suggest that the japanese people she interviewed do not want non-japanese pretending to be or imitiating or going native. they would rather a gaijin to be a gaijin. this comes back to the suggestion that the gaijin who attempts to act japanese is damned as well. and then it also presupposes that one can act japanese, israeli or american. e.g. how does one act american (or australian) given the diversity...what is it that we acting anyway? behaviours? values ? emotions etc.? and how long does it take to act like a native?

it is a hard one this...☝