Is the gaijin card ethical?

[Mandylion]

I heard through the grapevine that holders of American licenses have to take the test because one drives on the right hand side of the road in the US. I don't know if this has any truth to it.

Nope, has nothing to do with which side of the road you drive on, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt - Canadians (who are righties like the US) can convert their drivers licenses just like the other fast-tracked countries (this is a recent development following many years of paperwork and review)

According to the US Embassy, the US won't get a break because the whichever body in Japan decides who gets the nod must first review each country's licensing practices. Since each state in the US has different standards and testing, all 50 states must submit info on their licensing process, and all 50 states must meet Japanese standards.

In short, the red, white, and blue is out of luck...

now, lets get back on-topic....

 

[gaijinalways]

Ouch, I can relate to that. Hope to do my driving test this Friday.

I think the Debito example was a poor one, as he didn't go through with it, using it more as a research exercise.

I would say generally it is a bad idea to use the gaijin card, especially when you're trying to get out of being punished for doing something illegal (of course, that doesn't stop women from crying in the US).

As to the Japanese cheating on using the train lines, JR found that almost 90% were cheating on the fares (at that point JR had the wicket machines just monitoring) until JR changed their machines to stop people who didn't use the same ticket or pass for exiting as they used for entering. This happened about 6 years ago or so, and since only about 2% of residents are foreigners (including the Koreans who were born here), I would say many Japanese were cheating on the fares (don't know about now).

 

[Foxtrot Uniform]

Hmm, I've used the gaijin card a few times, though it doesn't work as well for me because I look Japanese, and I'm a Japanese citizen. Though on one occasion, I made the situation worse by unintentionally using the gaijin card.

I had a teiki to go from Shioya to Suma, which are one station apart, but on that day I was hurry and I had to go to Sannomiya, which was six stations away (theres only one JR line in Kobe), and so I forcefully went through the tickets gates without adjusting my fare and adding the appropriate 170 yen. Unbeknowest to me, a plainclothes officer had witnessed my barging through the gates and followed me out of the station. He grabbed my arm, stated that he was the police, and immediately demanded that I hand him his wallet so that he could check my ID. Now because he was in normal clothes, I was pretty sure that this strange man who was demanding to see my wallet was trying to trick me into stealing my money or something. In my broken Japanese (I really did speak broken japanese then, because I had spoken English most of my life), I said something like "Badge oh misete kudasai" - please show me your badge. Unfortunately for me, this was probably the last thing I should have asked him because his face reddened, he flashed me his police badge, and he dragged me to the nearest police box where he took me to the second floor in a little tatami floor and yelled at me for 30 minutes. I honestly did not understand what he was saying but he did speak great agressive kansai-ben.

Now I know I broke the law and cheated the station, but I don't know why the cop got so mad. Was it because I looked Japanese but he thought I was trying to use the gainjin card? Is there some rule that you should never ask to see a cop's badge? Though I do wish he had beaten me on the head with a phonebook because it would make this story a lot more interesting, but alas, I only received 30 minutes of intense yelling.

Of course, 99% of my other encounters with the law were much more pleasant and the cops are usually very polite, as long as you cooperate.

 

[Ewok85]

Is there some rule that you should never ask to see a cop's badge? Though I do wish he had beaten me on the head with a phonebook because it would make this story a lot more interesting, but alas, I only received 30 minutes of intense yelling.

www.debito.org: What to do if the Japanese Police arbitrarily stop you for a Gaijin Card Check PT 2

Read and learn

 

[Mrjones]

My country has smilar card for foreingers.. though I didn't know that before I came japan. I have no problem with gai-jin card. Can be very handy too sometimes

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Anyone who thinks that the gaijin card can ever be ethical should never complain when Japanese people treat them differently because they are foreigners.

They should never complain when asked stupid questions like "Can you use chopsticks?"

They should never complain when a Japanese person hears you say something like 'Ohayou Gozaimasu' and then complements you on how great your Japanese is.

Or complain about any of the other myriad host of things that you find living here day to day in Japan.

Or at least if they do, I sure as heck will not be sympathetic towards them. Quite the opposite.

You must first respect someone else before you can gain their respect. By thinking that the gaijin card can be ethical, you are showing an inherent lack of respect for others and yourself.

 

[gaijinalways]

Mikawa,

Good point. People can't have it both ways, this is very true. I don't ever remember pulling it, though I am preparing questions for any Japanese I see when I visit the US next time.

Like...wow, you use that knive and fork very well!

But seriously, you're very right. Though, there are people who pull the gaijin card that are Japanese.

Such as, oh sorry, you're not Japanese, you wouldn't understand.
Uh, what would I not understand????

 

[craftsman]

After reading the posts above, and as someone who is no spring chicken in Japan, I find it rather odd at all the condemnation at using the 'gaijin card'. And I see no reason for anyone to apologise for it.

Respect for people has got nothing to do with respect for mutli-national corporation profits or authoritarian structures or laws.

If I get caught up in a tricky situation I will do my damdest to get out of it.

 

[DoctorP]

I think Mikawa has an excellent point. I agree completely!

 

[Ewok85]

I think Mikawa has an excellent point. I agree completely!

I don't, things are not that black and white.

Anyone who thinks that the gaijin card can ever be ethical should never complain when Japanese people treat them differently because they are foreigners.

I'm Australian, and the word foreigner means "people who are not in Australia". There are many, many, many Australians who are not Australian citizens, or born in Australian, but we call them Australians. Only since coming to Japan have I heard the word used so often, and in so many ways.

They should never complain when asked stupid questions like "Can you use chopsticks?"

Its called ignorance, I don't say the same when Japanese use knives and forks. 窶敖｢ﾅｽg窶堋ｦ窶堙ｩ窶堙個？窶懌?凪?堋ｽ窶堙ｨ窶楼窶堋ｾ窶堙ｦﾂ！

They should never complain when a Japanese person hears you say something like 'Ohayou Gozaimasu' and then complements you on how great your Japanese is.

I'm still trying to work out if its condescending when I introduce myself in perfect fluent keigo, and the guy next to me can barely babble "hajimemashite", and we're told how wonderful our Japanese is.

Or complain about any of the other myriad host of things that you find living here day to day in Japan.

Being denied apartments? Being targeted by police for being "foreign"? Being denied access into shops and facilities? Racist (and untrue) remarks by leading politicians? Naaaah, no reason to complain. I'm sure the UN was wrong when they said Japan has deeply seated issues with racism.

You must first respect someone else before you can gain their respect. By thinking that the gaijin card can be ethical, you are showing an inherent lack of respect for others and yourself.

Where to begin with where the card is unethical? On first glance its issued by the Ministry of Justice. In nice big bold writing is the date my visa is valid until. I am required at all times to have it on my person or I will be faced with possible criminal prosecution. How is this not unethical?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I agree with Ewok that things rarely are black and white.

However, as I understand the "gaijin card" as used in the context of this thread, it is very difficult for me to see how it could ever be justified.

If you honestly don't know the language, not being able to speak it is not "using your gaijin card." Doing something that you know is wrong and then expecting your lack of Japanese knowledge to somehow bail you out, however, is.

If you are just being regular and someone else makes an assumption based on your appearance, even though you did or said nothing to encourage said assumption, that is not "using the gaijin card." Assuming that people will forgive you for being stupid because of your appearance, however, is.

It's all about intent. If you consciously try to use your "foreigness" to get out of trouble that you most like got yourself into, or are intentionally being deceitful towards someone else, it's hard to see how that can be ethical.

I am not commenting on the ethicacy of Japanese as persons/people or the country as a whole, because they are separate issues. Another's lack of ethics does not justify one's own lack of ethics.

 

[Ewok85]

Shades of Grey

Gah, I'm on total crack today - I just realised its about using the fact you are foreign to your own benefit, not litrally about the ﾅ?Oﾂ坂?伉人窶徙ﾋ弯ﾂ湘倪?督ｾﾂ鞘??

Never mind me - move along.

 

[DoctorP]

Last edited by Ewok85 : Yesterday at 15:55. Reason: I'm an idiot!

Too damn funny...but I am glad that you realized what we were referring to.

 

[Ewok85]

I've saved it anyway, I'll start my own "why the gaijin torokusho card is unethical", but for the time being I agree with you. Using the fact that you are a foreigner, and as such may be unaware of the language, law, social faux pas' is unethical and just plain ignorant.

 

[maushan3]

It is ethical as long as everyone, Japanese or not, has to carry one at all times. You know, like a regular I.D. just like many people have posted.

Mauricio

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Read the OP (Opening Post). The Gaijin card of this thread is not the identification card.

 

[maushan3]

Oops, my bad! haha

Mauricio

 

[kurtis dawber]

I would say that it is acceptable if you are in the following circumstances:

a) you speak little or no japanese
b) you have been in japan less than 2 and a half months
c) you haven't done it more than three times before

in these circumstances I think it would be acceptable

 

[KirinMan]

I would say that it is acceptable if you are in the following circumstances:
a) you speak little or no japanese
b) you have been in japan less than 2 and a half months
c) you haven't done it more than three times before
in these circumstances I think it would be acceptable

That will only work if England reciprocates with people that don't speak any English.

 

[gaijinalways]

Obeika Quote:Originally Posted by kurtis dawber

I would say that it is acceptable if you are in the following circumstances:
a) you speak little or no japanese
b) you have been in japan less than 2 and a half months
c) you haven't done it more than three times before
in these circumstances I think it would be acceptable

That will only work if England reciprocates with people that don't speak any English.

I've met those people! Or maybe they were British!