So I wanna live in Japan

[Achilles 1-1]

So I've thought long and hard about this, and I have decided I am willing to renounce the citizenship of the country I love and become a citizen of another country that is just as beautiful and has come a long way from isolationism. Now, before you say, "Wait, Derek! You're only a high school freshman, maybe this is too big of a decision for you!" I know, I know! However, I've given this about a year of thought, and decided that I wanted this. Sooooo, how should I go about this. I don't want to get permanent resident status, I want to naturalize as soon as I can, and from what I've researched, I can do that. Please help.

 

[mdchachi]

What's the hurry with naturalization? I've never looked into it, but I don't think you can naturalize before becoming a permanent resident so I think you can worry about that part later. The normal/fastest way is to get an education with a degree that is needed in Japan and find a job. Even though there's a big need for jobs that don't require an education it's very rare to get visa sponsorship for those unless it's a specialty like embalming or something. An even quicker way is to get married but hard to plan that before you find a fiance.
Anyway in your situation the first thing I'd do is try to arrange a summer, semester or year school exchange in Japan. If it works out you could go to Japan even quicker than what I said above if you go to school/college there.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Not sure about other people's feelings. I fell in love with Japan and planned to live there with my Japanese girlfriend when I got out of the Navy. But I found myself really homesick for Maine near the end of my 2 year stay in Fukuoka. Maybe you could set up something with going to College there for a while to see if it's really what you want.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

What's the hurry with naturalization? I've never looked into it, but I don't think you can naturalize before becoming a permanent resident so I think you can worry about that part later. The normal/fastest way is to get an education with a degree that is needed in Japan and find a job. Even though there's a big need for jobs that don't require an education it's very rare to get visa sponsorship for those unless it's a specialty like embalming or something. An even quicker way is to get married but hard to plan that before you find a fiance.
Anyway in your situation the first thing I'd do is try to arrange a summer, semester or year school exchange in Japan. If it works out you could go to Japan even quicker than what I said above if you go to school/college there.

Nah, I looked around, PR isn't a legal prerequisite for Natrualization. Heres what perplexity says on that. I checked the ministry of Japan and it also was not required.

 

[mdchachi]

Nah, I looked around, PR isn't a legal prerequisite for Natrualization. Heres what perplexity says on that. I checked the ministry of Japan and it also was not required.

Ok. In any case you first need to figure out how to reside there legally. So that should be your focus. Now that you mention it, a friend of mine became naturalized and he said it was actually easier to become naturalized Japanese citizen than to get permanent residency.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

Ok. In any case you first need to figure out how to reside there legally. So that should be your focus. Now that you mention it, a friend of mine became naturalized and he said it was actually easier to become naturalized Japanese citizen than to get permanent residency.

Yeah, I'll probably get a student visa, wanna go to human academy Japanese language school.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

Anybody know a good website to learn Japanese (not classes) I'm using Duolingo, but its way of teaching is… interesting.

 

[mdchachi]

Anybody know a good website to learn Japanese (not classes) I'm using Duolingo, but its way of teaching is… interesting.

Consider working your way through a textbook such as the Genki series. We can answer any questions you may have. Also you should consume all videos here. I suggest starting with the JPLT N5 grammar playlist.

 

[salyavin]

I agree on some text book. Way back in the day I used Learn Japanese New College Text series with a tutor. You can get by without a tutor but you need feedback. I think what you should do is study some textbook and do watch grammar videos as mdchachi said then try speaking with people like on hello talk. HelloTalk - Language Exchange - Learn Languages for Free

For some reason you want to be a citizen of a country you never lived in. Recently some Americans living in Japan I am aquainted with started taking citizenship. In some areas for example Aichi they were forced to take a language test, one even failed based on handwriting! What my aquaintence did was show the N3 cert she had for the JLPT and they let her get it. The test some of them are getting only require elementary school level N3 seems to be enough. This includes writing which JLPT does not cover (just reading). N3 is basically daily conversation level. You almost cannot help reaching N3 level just existing in Japan. If you want to be a citizen you probably want career opportunities perhaps beyond English teaching for that you need a higher level most say "business level" some doors do open for as low as N2 though. I do however have an old friend who moved up to Sapporo and has been teaching English up there for more than 20 years so it can work long term if that is your preference. I personally recommend going for permanent residency and living there longer before deciding the citizenship thing you clearly are embedded in a certain American culture you may end up missing it. I myself plan to return permanently and will likely go for permanent residency at least for a while before considering citizenship (I am married to a Japanese national) in my case there are even tax implications for taking permanent residency too soon. Permanent residency allows you to stay in the country permanently unless you commit certain crimes.

 

[thomas]

Anybody know a good website to learn Japanese (not classes) I'm using Duolingo, but its way of teaching is… interesting.

I use Duolingo for several languages. It's an excellent tool for practice and revision, but not for starting a new language.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

I agree on some text book. Way back in the day I used Learn Japanese New College Text series with a tutor. You can get by without a tutor but you need feedback. I think what you should do is study some textbook and do watch grammar videos as mdchachi said then try speaking with people like on hello talk. HelloTalk - Language Exchange - Learn Languages for Free

For some reason you want to be a citizen of a country you never lived in. Recently some Americans living in Japan I am aquainted with started taking citizenship. In some areas for example Aichi they were forced to take a language test, one even failed based on handwriting! What my aquaintence did was show the N3 cert she had for the JLPT and they let her get it. The test some of them are getting only require elementary school level N3 seems to be enough. This includes writing which JLPT does not cover (just reading). N3 is basically daily conversation level. You almost cannot help reaching N3 level just existing in Japan. If you want to be a citizen you probably want career opportunities perhaps beyond English teaching for that you need a higher level most say "business level" some doors do open for as low as N2 though. I do however have an old friend who moved up to Sapporo and has been teaching English up there for more than 20 years so it can work long term if that is your preference. I personally recommend going for permanent residency and living there longer before deciding the citizenship thing you clearly are embedded in a certain American culture you may end up missing it. I myself plan to return permanently and will likely go for permanent residency at least for a while before considering citizenship (I am married to a Japanese national) in my case there are even tax implications for taking permanent residency too soon. Permanent residency allows you to stay in the country permanently unless you commit certain crimes.

I considered going for permanent residency, but I wasn't gonna wait ten years if I was just gonna go for naturalization right after. I'm still in the very early stages of Japanese, not even at N5 yet, heheheh… At the most, Duolingo can get me to N3, hopefully.

 

[Majestic]

You also need to decide what you want to do/be for a living - what you want to spend your lifetime doing. How will you support yourself? How will you support a family if/when the time comes? Your potential partner will not be impressed by an American dude whose only ambition was to cosplay as a Japanese salaryman.

Living in Japan is not a great life goal.
Acquiring Japanese citizenship is not a great life goal. It's usually the result, or the side-quest of having a vocation/job that puts you in Japan for the long term.
Being a great engineer, lawyer, physician, businessman, musician, athlete, etc., and then applying that skill in a way that adds value to Japan (a Japanese corporation, or Japanese customers) is how you end up living in Japan. You need some marketable skills in order to survive and thrive. And, unfortunately, "living in Japan" isn't a marketable skill.

You haven't really said why you want to renounce your citizenship yet. And, if you haven't lived overseas before, it kind of sounds like you just like the idea of leaving the US in a dramatic fashion. Without some concrete reason/need for acquiring Japanese citizenship, it just sounds like you want to LARP as a background character in a Japanese setting.

 

[salyavin]

The Aichi person I mentioned above had lived in Japan over 30 years before taking citizenship, what is the rush? What exactly is getting citizenship doing for you vs permanent residency that you are in a hurry?

 

[Achilles 1-1]

@Majestic @salyavin First off, I'm scared we're gonna have a women president soon. I play five instruments. Two at very basic levels, and three at a more intermediate-advanced level. I could be a musician, though I'm not sure. I do plan on studying business or law, though. Honestly, permanent residency doesn't have as much privileges as citizenship. Also, I plan on getting as far from my family as possible, what better than to live in a different country?

@Majestic cosplay? Come on, ai makes better insults than that. Thats not my ambition. I'm thinking on either international business, if I can reach N1 or at least N2 Japanese, teaching english, etc.

 

[salyavin]

So you want to become a Japanese citizen because you are afraid the US will have a female president? Am I understanding this right? Japan is not a fantasy right wing world that will conform to your expectations. It has a national health care system, it has higher taxes than the US, are you sure? What if they get someone like Yuriko Koike as prime minister in your lifetime? You are young a lot can change.

The privileges like working government jobs and voting (which is not voting for the Japanese prime minister directly btw) are there and you do not have to file US taxes. You do lose options like if you decide you want to come back to the US.

 

[Majestic]

There's a novel and movie called "The Mosquito Coast". It's more or less about a guy whose trying to find his Utopia by moving away from the US. The moral of the story is; your problems are portable. It means that when you are running away from something, you end up taking your problems with you. Or, to say another way, the source of your problems lies within yourself, and moving to a different location doesn't solve your problems. In fact, it often makes them worse.

Teaching English in Japan was a very creaky and splintered springboard to success several decades ago. Now, it is a totally different landscape. Coming to Japan to teach English, and then hoping you can parlay that into something lucrative is wishful thinking. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to get you on the right tracks. Trying to get your head in the right place.

These so-called benefits of Japanese citizenship come at a ridiculous cost that extracts its toll forever.

And you have to learn that your politics doesn't make you a very interesting person. It feels like every other post of yours announces some aspect of your political identity. This is something that just isn't done in Japan. Nobody cares about anybody else's politics in Japan, and its almost a taboo subject in polite conversation. People don't wear their politics on their sleeve, and except for a few fringe elements of society, their politics forms a smaller fraction of their identity.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

There's a novel and movie called "The Mosquito Coast". It's more or less about a guy whose trying to find his Utopia by moving away from the US. The moral of the story is; your problems are portable. It means that when you are running away from something, you end up taking your problems with you. Or, to say another way, the source of your problems lies within yourself, and moving to a different location doesn't solve your problems. In fact, it often makes them worse.

Teaching English in Japan was a very creaky and splintered springboard to success several decades ago. Now, it is a totally different landscape. Coming to Japan to teach English, and then hoping you can parlay that into something lucrative is wishful thinking. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to get you on the right tracks. Trying to get your head in the right place.

These so-called benefits of Japanese citizenship come at a ridiculous cost that extracts its toll forever.

And you have to learn that your politics doesn't make you a very interesting person. It feels like every other post of yours announces some aspect of your political identity. This is something that just isn't done in Japan. Nobody cares about anybody else's politics in Japan, and its almost a taboo subject in polite conversation. People don't wear their politics on their sleeve, and except for a few fringe elements of society, their politics forms a smaller fraction of their identity.

I post frequently here without hesitation because you guys don't know me, so I feel safer. In reality, every time the whole class is talking about something and laughing, you'll typically see me away from the conversation with either my head down or looking in a different direction because I don't like physically speaking to people. If you just want me to shut up about what I believe then just say it; I'm used to people telling me to shut up. Anyways. Like I said, international business is something I am considering, and I am trying to take business as soon as I can. I also plan on trying to go to college with a student visa in Japan.


Edit: I'm asking for help. Not for people to dig on what I want in my life.

 

[mdchachi]

Believe it or not people are trying to help you. Let's go back to your first post. You said you thought long and hard about this but you really haven't. If you had thought long and hard about it you would have realized Japanese citizenship should be the least of your concerns at this stage. At least you should understand the first step is trying to figure out how to live in Japan either as a student or, later, for a job. You already know you have to live in Japan at least 5 years from the age of 18 minimum. Therefore there's no point in spending thought on it until you've lived in Japan for a year or two.

 

[salyavin]

My view is 2 years is not enough to consider citizenship maybe at least 5 before he starts to consider it to make sure one has gone through stages like Japan is awesome, japan is terrible and possibly deal with homesickness. Most I know who did citizenship lived more than half their lives in Japan that is different than never having lived there, don't speak the language and basically have ideas what it is like without experience.
All of us support you living in Japan. Student visa is a good idea. I see nothing wrong with international law, I know little of the field. While English teaching can work well for like a gap year to get you over there it is no longer a good long term plan. We are trying to help you. giving up citizenship for what we feel is minimal gain needs lots of thought and years of experience actually living (not imagining living) in Japan. Japan is not interested in your political views or conforming to any views you have. becoming a citizen will not help the average person accept you or see you as Japanese. As an American the main thing I see is not having to file US taxes which is an annoyance but not so large unless you are of a certain net worth. If Japan was a country that allowed dual citizenship this could be a different discussion. A lot of westerners eventually want to go back often around the 3-5 year mark even if they were super excited about living in Japan forever at first. You have no need to hurry this citizenship thing. I made an agreement with my wife and inlaws to live in Japan permanently in a few years when I semi-retire even then I do not plan to rush to citizenship even though I can get it faster than you due to article 7 THE NATIONALITY LAW I can also get permanent residency at 3 years as I understand it but I won't do that either for tax reasons. 在留資格「日本人の配偶者等」（外国人（申請人）の方が日本人の配偶者（夫又は妻）である場合） | 出入国在留管理庁 I become taxed by Japan on global income only after 5 years. What is the 5 year rule in Japan for tax? | Adam Fayed Only after that will I apply. No reason to rush it.

Do study Japanese. Do a student visa in Japan. Do think about a career in Japan and what you can offer maybe international law could work no issue with any of that. While you have not mentioned it just to put it out there do not marry for a visa, do not marry to quickly that is also a big decision that can mess up your life if you choose poorly. I did not marry the first girl I dated in Japan or the second or the third.... don't rush it. don't rush citizenship. This is us trying to help you and showing concern.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

Mistake: you are required to be age 20 before you can natrualize.

I've decided citizenship is my long term goal.

What im going to probably do is get a student visa for maybe 2-4 years and study business, then change to a work visa and work towards naturalization so that it gives me 7-9 years to really think about citizenship.

 

[salyavin]

Now that does sound better. Our main issue was the rush to citizenship.

 

[mdchachi]

Here's a search in case you want to peruse the threads of some of those who came before you. I wonder how many actually made it to Japan. One of the few was @Haruto Uzumaki. I don't think any of us thought he would do it but he actually realized his dream of living homeless in Japan. (Actually that wasn't his dream just an interim step).

 

[salyavin]

I suspect he can do it if he stays focused. He may have end up having to do some adjustments like building some experience in the US or elsewhere to build his value before he gets hired in Japan but that is not a hard road block.

 

[Haruto Uzumaki]

I agree with everyone's concerns, but I'd also like to add:
I think when it comes to uprooting and living in a different country, there are two important factors that determine whether it will go well or not:
1. Your priorities
2. Your attachments

So, my take is that it's good to think about things like this even early on like now, but of course not to get ahead of yourself and rush either. Regarding priorities, they may change over the course of your life due to the attachments you gain/lose in life. As a 9th grader you probably don't have too many permanent attachments right now which is good, that sets you free from restrictions and having "deal breakers" many other people twice your age would have when making these types of decisions. It's the same reason I chose so early in my life (around 19-20) to have as few attachments as possible in my home country (USA) so I could freely move as I pleased and integrate into another society without much issue. Due to this, I can set my priorities in an unconventional manner that almost nobody else could/would do in my position. I don't have a physical job I need to stick around near, so I can leave and enter countries relatively easily without a hit onto my life/livelihood (and there are some caveats for this which I'll explain later). I don't have a wife or family that I have to drag around with me every time I follow my own ambitions, and I'm able to guarantee that I never will because my priorities don't allow it. Some people will see it as a negative thing but I see it just the same as those who can't experience being able to follow their dreams due to being locked down to a traditional life of family kids and a 9-5 job... The only difference is I always choose what I want in life and not what always what is "conventional" in life, while many others choose to stick to the conventional methods for various reasons like fear or even just preferring that lifestyle over their adventurous dreams.

Alright, so what do I think of your situation? Well basically, I can see eye to eye with you because we are of a similar age group (I'm currently 21) and I also remember very clearly the first moment I had the realization that "America isn't the only place I can exist!", plus vividly remembering when I fell in love with Japan at around 15 years old (watching videos on YouTube, which contrary to what some people might think, were actually quite normal videos and nothing to do with tourism or trying to "rep" Japan). At the end of the day only you can most accurately judge your situation if you use fair judgement, and I know many people may have mistaken my love for Japan as something else, but for me it runs deep, and I hope it does for you too. Like others said, I don't think you should use it as an escape for various reasons. I did want to leave the US but I didn't choose Japan just because I wanted to leave, I chose it because there's no place I'd rather be in the entire world (at least long term). The way Japan works just works for me, and most importantly the "vibe" I feel from Japan makes me feel like my soul is where it belongs when I'm here. I hope you get to experience that same feeling, otherwise it might not be enjoyable

Now I'll tell you about the caveats that I have to experience with my lifestyle (which I'm 100% fine with and willing to make these sacrifices in order to make my dreams come true).
As @mdchachi said, I had to be homeless before (and it even happened on my current trip up until a few days ago). I made the sacrifice of coming here with not a ton of disposable income, so that I could connect with people and get further towards my goals in Japan. Where most people would just check into a hotel, I chose to never do that because the コスパ is so bad compared to actual permanent living situations in Japan which can be quite affordable. I always thought "if I check into a hotel my money will be gone in just a week!" and also "it doesn't solve the issue of having no permanent location to leave my belongings", so I had to drag my stuff with me everywhere for weeks (and yes eventually found affordable lockers and stuff). No physical job and my computer happened to break right before I left for Japan, so getting more income was slightly difficult (plus I am legally a tourist still, so I will keep having to leave to other countries to return later after three months). Despite how "safe" Japan is said to be, my cash money got stolen not just once but twice in a matter of two weeks in both Shinjuku and Shibuya. In fact the first time they stole my entire bag and I was lucky the police are so good that they got it back within half an hour, but the money and my second phone were missing. Even with all that and much more happening I still viewed life as better because I was able to live completely by myself and still have a relatively normal life compared to if I did something like this in the US. I got to eat extremely affordable and delicious foods almost every day, I got to experience the beauty and nature of Japan, I got to connect with so many people, I even got to meet a net friend in real life and am about to meet another any day now worth it? To me, absolutely! Maybe not to others but those are the priorities that matter to me, not having a home to run to when it rains or whether life is easy or not.

I guess I'll end it with this: if this is really what you want to do, don't let anyone else tell you that you can't do it, and be prepared to do everything you can to prove everyone wrong, make the sacrifices necessary for your dreams to come true, and surely you'll find some way. I think it's good that you're eager and researching, don't stress yourself out too much with things currently beyond you though find out truly if it's Japan you want, or if it's something else, because if you really want Japan you will have to deal with all of Japan, and maybe, if it turns out Japan isn't what you want, you would eventually find that unenjoyable... Either way it's all a learning experience and it's also okay to make mistakes, even as a result of ignoring the advice of others to find out for yourself... It's your own experience, so just do whatever you possibly can to be satisfied with it. I know I'm satisfied (though of course I will keep growing and improving to get an even better experience!)

 

[Haruto Uzumaki]

Oh and one more thing:
Absolutely learn Japanese now while you're still young, get a massive grasp on the grammar and by the time you're my age you'll probably be so native-like you'll have no issue whatsoever regarding language (assuming you put in the effort where it matters most)
So many doors are opened when you can understand Japanese, and even a few more when you can speak/use it so be sure to learn as much as you can to get an edge over 90% of other foreigners who might not put as much effort into learning as you might

Contrary to general consensus here, I find textbooks to be the slow, boring and outdated way to learn japanese. As for sites to learn, here's a resource catalog I've built with tons of YouTube channels and sites to supplement and maximize your learning potential.

# WEBSITES
# [SoundQuest](<SoundQuest - 新しい音を見つけよう>) - 新しい音を見つけよう
# [Tofugu Kana Quiz](<Practice Hiragana & Katakana>) - Practice Hiragana & Katakana
# [Kanshudo](<Learn Japanese fast and effectively - Kanshudo>) - Learn Japanese fast and effectively
# [renshuu](<renshuu.org - cute Japanese studying that's built around you>) - Ready to enjoy Japanese?
# [Forvo](<https://forvo.com/>) - The pronunciation dictionary
# [Japanese Reference](<Japan Reference>) - All Things Japanese
# [DISBOARD](<DISBOARD | Discord サーバー掲示板>) - DISCORD サーバー掲示板で見つけよう
# YOUTUBE CHANNELS
# [Kaname Naito](<Kaname Naito>) - Teaching Japanese.
# [YUYUの日本語Podcast](<YUYUの日本語Podcast>) - 日本語を勉強している人のためのPodcastです！
# [Japan Ads](<Japan Ads / 日本の広告>) - 日本の広告
# [RiceBurger Studios](<RiceBurger Studios - Learn Japanese>) - Learn Japanese
# [Daddy T Japan](<Daddy T Japan>) - Become a Japan Pro in 24 hours


# SPOTIFY PODCASTS
# [日本語って！](<>) - Eriko Kasai
# [YUYUの日本語Podcast](<>) - YUYU NIHONGO
# [八日後、君も消えるんだね](<>) - STUDIO koemee
# [日本語の聴解のためのPodcast](<>) - あかね的日本語教室
# APPS & EXTENSIONS
# [Yomitan](<Yomitan Popup Dictionary - Chrome Web Store>) - Japanese dictionary with Anki integration
# [KanjiSenpai](<KanjiSenpai Android App>) - KanjiSenpai for Android will help you learn Japanese vocabulary and kanji
# [+Sub](<+Sub - Chrome Web Store>) - Load subtitle into any video.
# [Sapling](<Sapling Grammar Checker and Writing Assistant - Chrome Web Store>) - Grammar Checker and Writing Assistant
# [jisho-pitcher](<jisho-pitcher - Chrome Web Store>) -

YouTube™ Dual Subtitles - Chrome Web Store

YouTube bilingual subtitles, simultaneous display of two languages, supports custom styles.

chromewebstore.google.com

Anki - powerful, intelligent flashcards

Anki - a program which makes remembering things easy.

apps.ankiweb.net

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/42490778

A little disorganized but check it all out, the extensions especially are so useful and are a modern approach to learning Japanese that I basically "formulated" myself through trial and error! For example on my computer I use yomitan for everything, whenever there's a word I don't know in a sentence or I'm trying to check if I understand the meaning correctly, I yomitan it
One of the most important apps I used is called kanji tree, but long story short that app can only be downloaded via an APK file now as the developer basically turned out to be a murderer and his apps got removed from the stores... Anyway if you get your hands on it then you will be blasting through kanji and kanji word learning in no time, of course make sure you understand hiragana and katakana fully before moving on, sure you know the drill already