Studying methods

[ak_wolf2024]

どうも！Hello!

どうやって日本語を勉強してるのですか。

I was wondering what are some studying methods you guys use? how creative do you get with studying Japanese? example: Do you hang stuff on your walls? Do you put your phone in Japanese and try to translate everything?

some other info... Like can I just open up a raw manga book I bought and just start drawing out the kanji and google translating stuff? Do you guys recommend google translating or should I actually google the grammar and lookup words in dictionaries.

Besides that I try to supplement my studying with textbooks, real live Japanese people talking on YouTube videos and watching drama's and stuff.

I personally hate reading (even English).

I also use Anki for flash card systems.

 

[Buntaro]

Hi Snow and welcome to the forum.

Have you mastered the reading and writing of hiragana and katakana?

 

[ak_wolf2024]

Hi Snow and welcome to the forum.

Have you mastered the reading and writing of hiragana and katakana?

はい、上手にできると思う

Yes. There are a few katakana I forget sometimes but I can also write hiragana and katana pretty well. As well as type it pretty well. I know basic kanji - too.

 

[Buntaro]

Step two: Have you studied one textbook from cover to cover? If it is a multiple volume series, have you studied all volumes cover to cover?

 

[ak_wolf2024]

Step two: Have you studied one textbook from cover to cover? If it is a multiple volume series, have you studied all volumes cover to cover?

umm, cover to cover? No XD. I have an beginner-intermediate textbook I can study from, Tobira. Should I get on that cover to cover?

 

[Buntaro]

Yes. Start immediately. Ask us lots of questions about things in the textbook. Give us frequent updates as to how it is coming along.

What is your first question about something in your textbook? (There are many Japanese speakers on this forum who would be more than happy to answer your questions.)

 

[ak_wolf2024]

Yes. Start immediately. Ask us lots of questions about things in the textbook. Give us frequent updates as to how it is coming along.

What is your first question about something in your textbook? (There are many Japanese speakers on this forum who would be more than happy to answer your questions.)

I appreciate the support.

I guess one question is, should I make Anki flashcards out of EVERY word that idk in the textbook (feels like it would take a lot of time - but then again it is a textbook).

Thanks again for support/help. よろしくね

Oh I'm also studying a Kanji textbook right now cover to cover N5-N4 kanji. No questions really with that book - it's going well, I've already been familiar with a lot of n5,n4 kanji so it's mostly review/re-remembering work there! I make anki flashcards and I sometimes include example sentences when I can for each kanji when I make the flashcard.

 

[Majestic]

I wasn't hanging things on walls or flipping through flash cards, but I was scribbling down kanji in my spare time, and counting each kanji I had memorized, until it got to the point where the new kanji I was learning were just combinations of roots and radicals from kanji I had already learned, so I stopped counting. It wasn't a very methodical approach, but it sort of worked. Well, it worked until I realized I still couldn't read a newspaper or follow the Japanese subtitles in movies. That took a few more years of practice.

I don't recommend Google translate, because if Google is doing your thinking for you, it's not going to help you. I don't recommend picking up random manga and trying to translate them, because manga often uses slangy expressions and contractions, and its best to learn proper phrasing and expressions first, and then learn how to deconstruct those depending on your audience.

I highly recommend an analogue approach to learning Japanese, which is: use textbooks or materials developed for Japanese schoolkids, so that you can build a proper foundation. There are a many paths to achieving Japanese proficiency, however, so find one that works for you, that you can stick with.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Welcome snowwolf , glad you found us. Members here are super helpful and you can find tons of info in old posts and threads here. Hope you hang around and advance your studies.

 

[Buntaro]

Snow,

In order to answer your question about Anki decks, I want to ask some questions. Do you work better with paper decks or digital decks on a PC or iPhone screen?

Also, the way to drill kanji (if drilling is what you want to do) is to get 3 or 4 people together and play a kanji game. Would you rather do this in person or online?

I am not familiar with Anki decks. Can you download Anki decks with all 2100+ joyo kanji?

 

[nice gaijin]

@snowwolf_212 welcome aboard, and sounds like you're off to a good start

Along with studying to gain a logical understanding of Japanese, it's important for you to expose yourself to as much Japanese as possible, so you can acclimate to the cadence of the spoken language. Listen to as much as you can, see what you can understand, and see if you can write down what you can't and find it in the dictionary to make sure you're hearing it correctly (and get some writing practice). Use plugins to see multiple sets of subtitles so you can check your understanding in real time, and get practice reading Japanese while you listen along.

So, what kind of Japanese media have you been consuming? Music? Movies (fiction? TV shows (news/variety)? Youtube channels?

 

[mdchachi]

One thing that I did a lot and still do to some extent is have an inner dialog. Hold conversations in my head or think about what I want to say. It helps me realize what I may not know and then I look it up. I use this for both grammar and vocabulary.

 

[ak_wolf2024]

I wasn't hanging things on walls or flipping through flash cards, but I was scribbling down kanji in my spare time, and counting each kanji I had memorized, until it got to the point where the new kanji I was learning were just combinations of roots and radicals from kanji I had already learned, so I stopped counting. It wasn't a very methodical approach, but it sort of worked. Well, it worked until I realized I still couldn't read a newspaper or follow the Japanese subtitles in movies. That took a few more years of practice.

I don't recommend Google translate, because if Google is doing your thinking for you, it's not going to help you. I don't recommend picking up random manga and trying to translate them, because manga often uses slangy expressions and contractions, and its best to learn proper phrasing and expressions first, and then learn how to deconstruct those depending on your audience.

I highly recommend an analogue approach to learning Japanese, which is: use textbooks or materials developed for Japanese schoolkids, so that you can build a proper foundation. There are a many paths to achieving Japanese proficiency, however, so find one that works for you, that you can stick with.

I read somewhere newspapers and stuff use beyond the 2000 kanji???

Yeah someone else here recommended a textbook, especailly since I didn't finish one cover to cover, so I'm working on a more intermediate/beginner textbook right now. I'll try to find some children books or books with easy reading.

 

[ak_wolf2024]

One thing that I did a lot and still do to some extent is have an inner dialog. Hold conversations in my head or think about what I want to say. It helps me realize what I may not know and then I look it up. I use this for both grammar and vocabulary.

I do this sometimes too randomly XD

 

[ak_wolf2024]

Snow,

In order to answer your question about Anki decks, I want to ask some questions. Do you work better with paper decks or digital decks on a PC or iPhone screen?

Also, the way to drill kanji (if drilling is what you want to do) is to get 3 or 4 people together and play a kanji game. Would you rather do this in person or online?

I am not familiar with Anki decks. Can you download Anki decks with all 2100+ joyo kanji?

I prefer digital because I can add/do more at once, and it's less physical resources.

Idk how that would work, anki drilling with 3 or 4 people. I know we have a meetup group here in Charlotte I could always attend and see if we can get 3 or 4 people on skype or something (or whatever replaced skype haha). I mean in person would work but online could work too.

You can download anki decks with all the kanji but I am actually making my own deck from scratch with a textbook I have (you also get to study while you make the deck, if that makes sense, like while you're making the deck your studying...).

 

[ak_wolf2024]

@snowwolf_212 welcome aboard, and sounds like you're off to a good start

Along with studying to gain a logical understanding of Japanese, it's important for you to expose yourself to as much Japanese as possible, so you can acclimate to the cadence of the spoken language. Listen to as much as you can, see what you can understand, and see if you can write down what you can't and find it in the dictionary to make sure you're hearing it correctly (and get some writing practice). Use plugins to see multiple sets of subtitles so you can check your understanding in real time, and get practice reading Japanese while you listen along.

So, what kind of Japanese media have you been consuming? Music? Movies (fiction? TV shows (news/variety)? Youtube channels?

There's a really funny YouTube channel I watch of someone playing minecraft. Or I might watch a drama/anime. I have a ton of raw manga, I even have some books that are in Japanese that teach you Japanese.

Yeah I try to expose myself to as much of the language as possible to immerse myself in it!

Only real hard part about reading japanese is all the kanji, besides that it's a very basic simple language IME.

 

[mdchachi]

Only real hard part about reading japanese is all the kanji, besides that it's a very basic simple language IME.

It's deceptively simple. If you try to achieve the fluency of an adult with the knowledge of honorific and humble language and being able to switch and know exactly how and when to use them you'll find it's not simple at all. But the good news is that even if you talk like an elementary school student or a youtuber everybody will give you a pass because you're not expected to be that fluent and situationally aware.

 

[Buntaro]

how that would work, anki drilling with 3 or 4 people.

The idea is to use cards that kanji are printed on and play a game. It would require cards with a kanji written/printed on one side and info about that kanji written on the back side of the card. Pull one card from the deck, with the kanji side up. Each person gets one point for giving the meaning(s) (some kanji have many meanings), onyomi pronunciation(s), kunyomi pronunciation(s), and giving kanji combinations where that kanji is used. Whoever gets the most points wins. (I do not see how this could be done any way but with paper cards.) It would be necessary to note which are kanji 1-100, 101-200, 201-300, and only use cards with kanji that all players have studied (have written at least ten times). Or group them into first grade kanji, second grade kanji, etc. This is a very effective way to study kanji, and is a lot more fun than just writing columns and columns of kanji by yourself.

I think Skype still works just fine, but I think the latest is Zoom.

I am actually making my own deck from scratch

Anything works as long as you are writing out each stroke of each kanji. Just cutting and pasting kanji computer images is a huge mistake.

it's less physical resources

I don't think a pack of blank cards is that expensive, and it is a good investment in your Japanese studies. I also strongly recommend buying a set of printed kanji flash cards similar to the ones in this link. Professionally printed cards like this were a big help back when I was learning kanji.

Vintage Box of Japanese / English Flash Cards - Etsy

Lovely little lot of Japanese / English flash cards in their little cardboard storage box. I havent counted the cards - I would estimate around 300. I have pictured just a few of the cards to give you an idea. Good vintage condition. Some minor age wear but no rips, tears or bends. The cards

www.etsy.com

Another thing about buying blank paper cards and writing all of these things out by hand is that you will learn a lot by doing it.

~~~

I want to give some advice. Divide your study of Japanese into three areas: (1) learning kanji, (2) learning "textbook Japanese" or "good Japanese", and (3) learning conversational Japanese (which, when you have learned the basics, you can move right into listening and speaking practice). (A lot of conversational Japanese is not "grammatically correct," for example, the first greeting everyone learns is こんにちは, which doesn't make any sense when analyzed from a grammatical point of view, but it is what it is, and we have to learn all of the conversational structures.) When you sit down to study Japanese, decide which of these three you will study and only study that one area, do not try to to study 2 or 3 at the same time.

When you are ready to start practicing listening and speaking Japanese, let me know. I have lots of ideas.

Are you ready to do a language exchange, in person or online, with a Japanese person? The way it works is, you spend 20 minutes helping them with their English, then you spend 20 minutes with them helping you with your Japanese. I have lots of ideas on what to do during a language exchange. (I also have ideas on how you can practice listening and speaking Japanese with your English-speaking friends.)

 

[ak_wolf2024]

It's deceptively simple. If you try to achieve the fluency of an adult with the knowledge of honorific and humble language and being able to switch and know exactly how and when to use them you'll find it's not simple at all. But the good news is that even if you talk like an elementary school student or a youtuber everybody will give you a pass because you're not expected to be that fluent and situationally aware.

deceptively simple XD maybe that's right though. japanese people get really impressed with just a little bit of japanese you know! I spoke to one jap over a language exchange app on the phone and he thought I was REALLY good, but I barely know that much XD XD I mean enough to feel comfortable.

 

[ak_wolf2024]

The idea is to use cards that kanji are printed on and play a game. It would require cards with a kanji written/printed on one side and info about that kanji written on the back side of the card. Pull one card from the deck, with the kanji side up. Each person gets one point for giving the meaning(s) (some kanji have many meanings), onyomi pronunciation(s), kunyomi pronunciation(s), and giving kanji combinations where that kanji is used. Whoever gets the most points wins. (I do not see how this could be done any way but with paper cards.) It would be necessary to note which are kanji 1-100, 101-200, 201-300, and only use cards with kanji that all players have studied (have written at least ten times). Or group them into first grade kanji, second grade kanji, etc. This is a very effective way to study kanji, and is a lot more fun than just writing columns and columns of kanji by yourself.

I think Skype still works just fine, but I think the latest is Zoom.



Anything works as long as you are writing out each stroke of each kanji. Just cutting and pasting kanji computer images is a huge mistake.



I don't think a pack of blank cards is that expensive, and it is a good investment in your Japanese studies. I also strongly recommend buying a set of printed kanji flash cards similar to the ones in this link. Professionally printed cards like this were a big help back when I was learning kanji.

Vintage Box of Japanese / English Flash Cards - Etsy

Lovely little lot of Japanese / English flash cards in their little cardboard storage box. I havent counted the cards - I would estimate around 300. I have pictured just a few of the cards to give you an idea. Good vintage condition. Some minor age wear but no rips, tears or bends. The cards

www.etsy.com

Another thing about buying blank paper cards and writing all of these things out by hand is that you will learn a lot by doing it.

~~~

I want to give some advice. Divide your study of Japanese into three areas: (1) learning kanji, (2) learning "textbook Japanese" or "good Japanese", and (3) learning conversational Japanese (which, when you have learned the basics, you can move right into listening and speaking practice). (A lot of conversational Japanese is not "grammatically correct," for example, the first greeting everyone learns is こんにちは, which doesn't make any sense when analyzed from a grammatical point of view, but it is what it is, and we have to learn all of the conversational structures.) When you sit down to study Japanese, decide which of these three you will study and only study that one area, do not try to to study 2 or 3 at the same time.

When you are ready to start practicing listening and speaking Japanese, let me know. I have lots of ideas.

Are you ready to do a language exchange, in person or online, with a Japanese person? The way it works is, you spend 20 minutes helping them with their English, then you spend 20 minutes with them helping you with your Japanese. I have lots of ideas on what to do during a language exchange. (I also have ideas on how you can practice listening and speaking Japanese with your English-speaking friends.)

You have some great ideas dude! I like the kanji game idea. Yeah it's zoom that's what it is that replaced skype.

oh nono I don't buy blank paper cards I do it all on my computer through anki, I just type it out with the Japanese keyboard (I don't copy & paste). I didn't know esty sells flashcards though haha nice. I'll check out getting something like that! It might be good to have a physical deck too.

I'll come back in maybe 6 months to get some listening and speaking advice from you!

I actually do langauge exchange daily with the apps Tandem and HiNative. Are these options you would be recommending or did you have other ideas?
we have meetups in the Charlotte area I live on meetup.com, I can always go back to those ( I haven't been in a while ).

 

[mdchachi]

deceptively simple XD maybe that's right though. japanese people get really impressed with just a little bit of japanese you know! I spoke to one jap over a language exchange app on the phone and he thought I was REALLY good, but I barely know that much XD XD I mean enough to feel comfortable.

Yes it's a trope. The minute you say はじめまして you'll hear 日本語が上手ですね。Btw, while it's a natural abbreviation, "jap" has a history as a derogatory term and best to avoid.

 

[ak_wolf2024]

Yes it's a trope. The minute you say はじめまして you'll hear 日本語が上手ですね。Btw, while it's a natural abbreviation, "jap" has a history as a derogatory term and best to avoid.

Avoid jap gotcha! Kinda like 外人 huh

 

[mdchachi]

Avoid jap gotcha! Kinda like 外人 huh

Sort of but it was worse way back when. Check the poster in this article.

Anti-Japanese sentiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Buntaro]

I actually do langauge exchange daily with the apps Tandem and HiNative. Are these options you would be recommending or did you have other ideas?

A while ago, I put together a thread about various apps that people can use for online Japanese language exchange.

Finding online language exchanges

There are people out there who are interested in finding online language exchanges, but the process can be quite daunting. I thought it would be fun to start a thread on the subject. Does anyone know good webpages or apps to do online language exchanges on? Is anyone willing to share their...

jref.com

One thing I learned from doing that thread was that many people think language exchange is exchanging text messages via an app. I disagree, I think that language exchange means seeing, hearing, and talking. Are you doing this on those two apps?

I also learned that security is necessary for people wanting to do an online exchange with a total stranger they know nothing about. There are a lot of bad people out there, so what many of these apps do is have two people do a fair amount of text messaging before they can see and hear each other via the app. (Sounds wise to me.)

But the main thing is to do just that, see and hear each other and have audible conversations. To get back to your question, yes, they are good as long as you are seeing and hearing each other and having conversations (instead of only texting).

One benefit to sending text messages is that they can be sent any time of day, then we just wait for the other person to respond, even hours later if need be. But with a face-to-face meeting, the biggest problem is the time difference. Both people must be online simultaneously. But 8pm Tokyo time is 4am in some parts of the US. The huge problem, then, is finding a time of day to meet online which works for both people.

 

[Majestic]

I read somewhere newspapers and stuff use beyond the 2000 kanji?

Yes, but if you know 2000, you can pretty much read a newspaper. Its similar to English: you may come across an unusual word now and then, but you either figure it out from the context, or you can look it up if you don't know it. The vast majority of that newspaper will be written using katakana, hiragana, and those 2000 kanji.
If you have a highly technical article explaining retroviruses or quantum theory or something, it will be a bit challenging, but it would be challenging for most people even in their native language. Anyway, slow and steady wins the race, as they say.

Kinda like 外人 huh

This is a topic that maybe will arouse a lot of opinions, but to me the word "j@p" is always offensive, as it kind of grew out of an era when the US saw Asian countries as areas to be dominated, and Asian people were likewise inequal/inferior. And it saw heavy use in WW2 as a pejorative. It took some decades for it to finally fall out of use.

"Gaijin" is kind of complicated because its shorthand for Gaikokujin, but its a shorthand that doesn't carry quite the same pejorative power that j@p has. In the past two decades, the foreign community has made it clear they feel insulted by it, and so it is widely avoided on TV and radio, but its still used in casual conversation. It hasn't gone completely underground. Even amongst ourselves we can use it with intention to be funny or self-deprecating, ironic, etc... and it doesn't have the same cringe-power of j@p - which instantly feels out of place anywhere. (For some reason Singaporeans still kind of use it from time to time with no ill intent. Language is a strange thing.)

Edited to fix a glaring typo. The use of "gaijin" has NOT gone completely underground, even though people are mostly aware it sounds offensive to the foreign community.