why the use of the double particle?

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Hi All,
I was wondering why, in the following title the double particle へと is used. In particular what is the function of と？and could it be dropped?
The title is なぜ戦争へと向かったのか。 what lead to war?
よろしくお願いします。

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

You're misinterpreting the verb.

Edit:

Or maybe not. Hell, I don't know.

Toritoribe · 28 Feb 2015

letslearn said:
Hi All,
I was wondering why, in the following title the double particle へと is used. In particular what is the function of と？and could it be dropped?
The title is なぜ戦争へと向かったのか。 what lead to war?
よろしくお願いします。

The meaning is almost the same as 戦争へ向かった. へと is considered to emphasize the result of the change, comparing to へ that indicates the direction.

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Toritoribe said:
The meaning is almost the same as 戦争へ向かった. へと is considered to emphasize the result of the change, comparing to へ that indicates the direction.

Thanks guys. There are many ways to emphasise aren't there? That's good to know. Its not emphasising the reasons behind what lead to war but what the effect of those decision did. Very interesting.

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

向かう doesn't mean "lead" and though the result is the same it gives quite a different nuance.

Note that you also have to ignore that なぜ means "why" instead of "what" to get the interpretation you got.

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Mike Cash said:
向かう doesn't mean "lead" and though the result is the same it gives quite a different nuance.

Note that you also have to ignore that なぜ means "why" instead of "what" to get the interpretation you got.

Its a verb that has many meanings in English hasn't it?
In the Direction of, heading towards, setting off, facing etc.
I'm not certain what a good translation would be. It sort of sounds like
Why did we head for war? In natural English. Or if the nuance of へと is the emphasis of the change, maybe another interpretation is needed.

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

Being led implies an external and perhaps unavoidable impetus. That's entirely inconsistent with the Japanese phrasing.

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Toritoribe said:
The meaning is almost the same as 戦争へ向かった. へと is considered to emphasize the result of the change, comparing to へ that indicates the direction.

なぜ can be use as a what question can't it?
So if your saying that へと emphasises the results of the change.
Is it more like.
What were the consequences of going to war?
Or is there something missing from the title that is implied and assumed?

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

You're missing the element of volition (and hence "choice" and direct responsibility) inherent in 向かう. That's an important distinction.

Grammatically, how do you propose to have なぜ equate 何 there?

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Mike Cash said:
You're missing the element of volition (and hence "choice" and direct responsibility) inherent in 向かう. That's an important distinction.

Grammatically, how do you propose to have なぜ equate 何 there?

There's only 3 parts in the title right?
なぜ
戦争へと向かったの
か
Volitional means done by conscious.
Why did we choose war?

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

Retaining the figurative language:

Why did [xxx] turn toward war?

Why did [xxx] head towards war?

I have no idea what noun or pronoun goes there.

letslearn · 28 Feb 2015

Mike Cash said:
Retaining the figurative language:

Why did [xxx] turn toward war?

Why did [xxx] head towards war?

I have no idea what noun or pronoun goes there.

Thanks mikesan that sounds a lot more natural, much appreciated

Mike Cash · 28 Feb 2015

Also take note of the distinction between 向く and 向かう and while we're on it I may as well mention that 向き and 向こう are handy vocabulary items as well.

Lomaster · 6 Jul 2015

Finally i've come across an explanation of へと. From now on, instead of simply ignoring と i'll keep that emphasis on the result of the change in mind

why the use of the double particle?

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

letslearn

先輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Lomaster

.

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