what happens if i have to give up my Japanese passport?

Sugamo · 13 Dec 2006

I'm a Japanese citizen living in the U.S. My husband is an american citizen so I heard that 3-5 after I have received my permanent resident card, I will be eligible to become an american citizen. But my concern is, I'd have to give up my japanese passport and I don't know what's going to happen after that.
Would I be able to enter Japan without difficult with an american passport?would i have limitation on how long i can stay?
Would I still be allowed to work in Japan?
any advice would be appreciated.

Index · 13 Dec 2006

You should be able to get accurate information if you call the Japanese consulate near where you live. Considering you are talking about fairly important details, you wouldn't want to be misled (not that I doubt anyone's intentions here...)

Mike Cash · 13 Dec 2006

Sugamo said:
I'm a Japanese citizen living in the U.S. My husband is an american citizen so I heard that 3-5 after I have received my permanent resident card, I will be eligible to become an american citizen. But my concern is, I'd have to give up my japanese passport and I don't know what's going to happen after that.
Would I be able to enter Japan without difficult with an american passport?would i have limitation on how long i can stay?
Would I still be allowed to work in Japan?
any advice would be appreciated.

You would be treated like any other American citizen.

Erekose · 14 Dec 2006

Sugamo said:
I'm a Japanese citizen living in the U.S. My husband is an american citizen so I heard that 3-5 after I have received my permanent resident card, I will be eligible to become an american citizen. But my concern is, I'd have to give up my japanese passport and I don't know what's going to happen after that.
Would I be able to enter Japan without difficult with an american passport?would i have limitation on how long i can stay?
Would I still be allowed to work in Japan?
any advice would be appreciated.

Keep in mind that Japan does not allow dual-citizenship. Should you wish to visit Japan to see family/friends you would essentially be a tourist and limited to 90 days.
After nearly 9 years in the US my wife has kept her Japanese citizenship because of this.

MajideSaiaku · 14 Dec 2006

Its a big deal giving up your native citizenship to become entirely another, unless your are totaly convinced you will spend the rest of your life in the US, or have no intention of returning to Japan to live, your best bet is to keep your Japanese citizenship.

I also second the advice that you should check with your nearest Japanese consulate, they will know for sure everything you need to know.

leonmarino · 14 Dec 2006

I had to give up my Japanese nationality a while ago.. It was a pretty confusing happening I have to say. I didn't give it much thought back then; I got a letter from the Japanese ambassy stating I had to choose either Japanese or Dutch nationality. I chose the Dutch because that seemed easier as I wasn't planning on living in Japan.

Now, a few years later, I sometimes regret not having chosen the Japanese. Because it limits me in my mobility; it seems like I never will be able to take a loan in Japan, rent a house without trouble, or simply stay as long as I want. The Dutch are more lenient towards foreigners in many aspects.

But then again, being Dutch has its advantages too.. I think.

Maciamo · 14 Dec 2006

If you don't tell the Japanese authorities, they won't know that you have become an American citizen. As the USA allows dual nationality, they won't have any problem with you keeping your Japanese nationality and passport. Just don't tell the Japanese government and go back to Japan with your Japanese passport.

In case of doubt, opt for the permanent residency.

jonathancameron · 14 Dec 2006

Maciamo said:
If you don't tell the Japanese authorities, they won't know that you have become an American citizen. As the USA allows dual nationality, they won't have any problem with you keeping your Japanese nationality and passport. Just don't tell the Japanese government and go back to Japan with your Japanese passport.

In case of doubt, opt for the permanent residency.

Actually, I heard that if you have a spouse who is Japanese but a dual citizen and she runs off with your child, you can threaten to tell Japan that she became American or whatever.

Companies who are aware of Kikokushijos who become English teachers have often threatened to tell the Japanese government that they have dual nationality to control and manipulate them. Please share this experience with me if you had such a case. Debito Arudo after making lots of noise was forced to give up his US nationality because he created waves. For fully caucasian Japanese, there are some people I heard that it is not good to tell them of your dual national identity because they will report on you.

jonathancameron · 14 Dec 2006

Index said:
You should be able to get accurate information if you call the Japanese consulate near where you live. Considering you are talking about fairly important details, you wouldn't want to be misled (not that I doubt anyone's intentions here...)

Now that would be the stupidest thing to do. You would be shooting yourself in the foot. Are you jealous or something? If she did that, she would be confessing this to the Japanese embassy, and they would put her on the watch list. Sugamo, please go to Japan to renew your passport so that they don't give you complications with various forms to fill that you need to at the embassy, should you need to get a passport to go to Japan.

Sugamo, the downside of keeping your national identity is that you cannot qualify for a mombusho scholarship. My friend could not get Mombusho Scholarship and while he was a top student in Japanese class, beating out all the foreigners, he was not even allowed to do JET program as he is a Japanese national. Issei discrimination on JET program even when all his schooling was done in Canada occurred. They could have saved money teaching him Japanese, and having a double major in both English and Japanese from UBC, it was such a waste. How could Yutaka not qualify? Is it because after his experience, he couldn't be chucked away? He could translate English into Japanese, and vice versa. What a waste!

Mikawa Ossan · 14 Dec 2006

Maciamo said:
If you don't tell the Japanese authorities, they won't know that you have become an American citizen. As the USA allows dual nationality, they won't have any problem with you keeping your Japanese nationality and passport. Just don't tell the Japanese government and go back to Japan with your Japanese passport.

In case of doubt, opt for the permanent residency.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the only person up to this point who actually recommends trying to cheat the system is an admin?

I will have to reiterate Mike Cash's comments that in terms of the law, you will be treat like any other American citizen if you give up your Japanese citizenship. I think that since you were born as a Japanese citizen, it might be possible to cheat the system without anyone knowing.....for a time. But doing things that one knows are wrong is highly unethical and often catches up with one at some point in the future.

My advice is to not follow Maciamo's advice. I, too, think you should keep your Japanese citizenship so long as it doesn't cause undue problems for you in America.

jonathancameron said:
Now that would be the stupidest thing to do. You would be shooting yourself in the foot. Are you jealous or something? If she did that, she would be confessing this to the Japanese embassy, and they would put her on the watch list. Sugamo, please go to Japan to renew your passport so that they don't give you complications with various forms to fill that you need to at the embassy, should you need to get a passport to go to Japan.
Sugamo, the downside of keeping your national identity is that you cannot qualify for a mombusho scholarship. My friend could not get Mombusho Scholarship and while he was a top student in Japanese class, beating out all the foreigners, he was not even allowed to do JET program as he is a Japanese national. Issei discrimination on JET program even when all his schooling was done in Canada occurred. They could have saved money teaching him Japanese, and having a double major in both English and Japanese from UBC, it was such a waste. How could Yutaka not qualify? Is it because after his experience, he couldn't be chucked away? He could translate English into Japanese, and vice versa. What a waste!

I think you and your friend are missing the point of the Monbukagakusyo's scholarship and the JET programme.

Index · 14 Dec 2006

jonathancameron said:
If she did that, she would be confessing this to the Japanese embassy, and they would put her on the watch list.

Confessing to what? Watch list at the embassy? The embassy has nothing to do with it. :banghead:

As far as I know there is no obligation to identify yourself when calling a consulate to ask for general information.

Mike Cash · 14 Dec 2006

jonathancameron said:
Debito Arudo after making lots of noise was forced to give up his US nationality because he created waves.

No, he gave it up after getting tired of other members of the foreign community charging him with duplicity, a character trait he is famous for.

MajideSaiaku · 14 Dec 2006

No, he gave it up after getting tired of other members of the foreign community charging him with duplicity, a character trait he is famous for.

Mike beat me to it.

The American consulate/embassy even tried told him it was un-necissary or something, he made a big fuss about it, poor sod loves attention, he gave up his own citizenship of his own free will, his exact motives are his own.
I guess it would be an intense version of that "I'm a gaijin so I'm special in Japan" syndrome, but he never grew out of it.
As far as I know he doesnt actually carry much weight at all in the foreigner community in Japan, he's just a big talking head, desperate for a cause.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the only person up to this point who actually recommends trying to cheat the system is an admin?

An admin?, yes, Maciamo?, no.

Say what you will of Mac, he doesnt let fiddly strict letters of the law and rules get in the way of his intentions.

I wouldnt fiddle the system myself, if you persue citizenship legally its best to stay within the confines of the law, Illegal immigration is what makes it harder for legal sincere folk to get their citizenship the right way, if she does go for full blown US citizenship she would probably do herself more favors by giving up her Japanese.

In my opinion though I dont see the point of citizenship if you still have plans to return to your native country.
As for me, giving up a British passport would be a booboo, mmmmm European Union freedom of movement and living....*Snuggles his wovely pwasspwort*.

My advice is to not follow Maciamo's advice. I, too, think you should keep your Japanese citizenship so long as it doesn't cause undue problems for you in America.

Quoted for truth.

jonathancameron · 15 Dec 2006

nurizeko said:
Mike beat me to it.
The American consulate/embassy even tried told him it was un-necissary or something, he made a big fuss about it, poor sod loves attention, he gave up his own citizenship of his own free will, his exact motives are his own.
I guess it would be an intense version of that "I'm a gaijin so I'm special in Japan" syndrome, but he never grew out of it.
As far as I know he doesnt actually carry much weight at all in the foreigner community in Japan, he's just a big talking head, desperate for a cause.
An admin?, yes, Maciamo?, no.
Say what you will of Mac, he doesnt let fiddly strict letters of the law and rules get in the way of his intentions.
I wouldnt fiddle the system myself, if you persue citizenship legally its best to stay within the confines of the law, Illegal immigration is what makes it harder for legal sincere folk to get their citizenship the right way, if she does go for full blown US citizenship she would probably do herself more favors by giving up her Japanese.
In my opinion though I dont see the point of citizenship if you still have plans to return to your native country.
As for me, giving up a British passport would be a booboo, mmmmm European Union freedom of movement and living....*Snuggles his wovely pwasspwort*.

Quoted for truth.

Hey I am a Canadian citizen and I too wish British citizenship. I know I am a commonwealth citizen so how much of an advantage would I have in being able to get one vs an American or a Japanese who have no commonwealth ties whatsoever? I know that joining the British Army is a sure way to get one, but I want a way to get it without joining the British Army, as that would be treason to Canada.

Mike Cash · 15 Dec 2006

To clarify for the original poster:

Giving up your Japanese passport is more than giving up a document. It means giving up your Japanese citizenship. You would be considered a foreigner by Japan. You would be removed from your 住民票.

jonathancameron · 16 Dec 2006

Mike Cash said:
To clarify for the original poster:

Giving up your Japanese passport is more than giving up a document. It means giving up your Japanese citizenship. You would be considered a foreigner by Japan. You would be removed from your ﾂ住窶督ｯ窶｢[.

What is ﾂ住窶督ｯ窶｢[? How do you read that Kanji, Mike? Sorry, my Japanese isn't that good. Not to mention my horrible ability to use ga and wa interchangably, and use na and no properly.

I heard that the Japanese issei born Kikokushas who work up their Japanese (2 years on average) and who are willing to give up their old ways and fit in, do succeed in fitting, and do become accepted onto the other side. To this effect, it is only the Issei Kikokushijos that have a real chance at joining the other side of the fence. The ones that play this game often are not kinder to the foreigner as one may logically think as they would have the best intercultural understanding. They talk as if the stay in US or Canada was a long long over sea holiday as if they were a foreigner in the other country that they were citizens at. We paid our taxes and gave them their education, medical, etc, and to say that amongs other Japanese to fit right back in is disgusting. I have also seen how some Kikokushijos try to actually assert their Western identity and are likewise discriminated as we are. I saw two types in my short stay there, but we really don't seem to be much middle ground.

I mean I plan on getting a British citizenship by choice so I can freely work in the European Union one day, but I didn't find a reason to pretend to be British, and I was fine being a Canadian. I had some who accused me of being American, but I was able to live with it. I don't plan on flaunting my British passport denying my Canadian citzenry also once I do become British (I have almost a 100% chance of success with this as a Canadian since to be denied as a Canadian, you gotta have a criminal record of some sort. You could even be a dishwasher and live there, and they will give it to you, as opposed to an american or Japanese whom have to have more money and have more red tape in aquiring it).

Mike Cash · 16 Dec 2006

jonathancameron said:
What is ﾂ住窶督ｯ窶｢[? How do you read that Kanji, Mike?

窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堙昶?堙ｱ窶堙絶?堙･窶堋､.

Anyone familiar with the works/antics of Debito can't help but be familiar with the word.

jonathancameron · 17 Dec 2006

Mike Cash said:
窶堋ｶ窶堙｣窶堋､窶堙昶?堙ｱ窶堙絶?堙･窶堋､.
Anyone familiar with the works/antics of Debito can't help but be familiar with the word.

I am not a big fan of debito. ﾅｽ窶樞?堙坂?脳窶堙ｨ窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｪﾂ湘｣ﾅｽﾃｨ窶堙??堙坂?督ｳ窶堋｢窶堙娯?堙?、窶伉ｽ窶禿壺?堙嫁陳ｩ窶堙??ｰﾂｺ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｹﾂ。ﾂﾅｽ窶樞?堙坂?愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堙ｰﾅ?w窶堙披?堙娯?堙俄?佚寂?堋ｵ窶堙??ｹﾃｪﾋ廱窶堙ｰ窶堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堙娯?堙??堋ｷﾂ。ﾂﾆ筑ﾆ辰ﾆ誰窶堋ｳ窶堙ｱﾂ、窶ｹM窶｢ﾃｻ窶堙坂?堙ｭ窶堙ｨ窶堙??愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ津ｪ窶堋ｪﾂ湘｣ﾅｽﾃｨ窶堙遺?堙娯?堙?、ﾅ?ﾂｿﾅｽﾅ｡窶堋ｪ窶愿??堙樞?堙娯?堙?ﾂ鞘?倪?堋ｭ窶堙娯?堙?ﾅ?ﾃ遺?儕窶堋ｾ窶堙?ｽv窶堋､窶堙娯?堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾅｽ窶樞?堙坂?堙懌?堋ｾ窶堋ｽ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堙恵eginner窶堙??堋ｷ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾂ、窶堋ｨ窶ｹ窶凪?堋ｵ窶堋ｭ窶堋ｾ窶堋ｳ窶堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｹﾂ。ﾂﾂ（By the way, I would appreciate it if you could fix any of my multitude of grammatical mistakes I have just made! I am sure I have scores. Please post it here or PM me for it!.

epigene · 17 Dec 2006

Sugamo said:
I'm a Japanese citizen living in the U.S. My husband is an american citizen so I heard that 3-5 after I have received my permanent resident card, I will be eligible to become an american citizen. But my concern is, I'd have to give up my japanese passport and I don't know what's going to happen after that.
Would I be able to enter Japan without difficult with an american passport?would i have limitation on how long i can stay?
Would I still be allowed to work in Japan?
any advice would be appreciated.

I'd like to just get back to the OP's question. Valid suggestions have already been made here, but I'd like to sum it up, with a touch of my own person opinion.

If you want to abide by the laws of Japan strictly, you must abandon your Japanese citizenship after gaining US citizenship, since Japan does not allow dual citizenship. As some have mentioned, it is easy for a naturalized Japanese citizen living in Japan, who had originally been, say, American, to simply keep both Japanese and the foreign passports by just saying nothing to the Japanese authorities. This may be illegal in the strictest sense, but it is not something that is exhaustively enforced. This does not cause a problem as long as you stay a good, law-abiding citizen in Japan or wherever.

However, since you live in the US, keeping your Japanese passport poses a problem when your passport expires. When you go to the Japanese embassy to ask for extension, I suspect that they will check on your legal status in the US. If you remain a permanent resident in the US, you can keep your Japanese passport. If you are naturalized American at that point in time, you will be forced to give up Japanese citizenship by the local Japanese embassy. You will be refused issue of a Japanese passport and will be required to remove yourself from your Japanese family's registry, thus becoming a non-citizen.

Once you become a US citizen, you will be just another American in the eyes of Japanese law and will be granted only what other Americans get regarding visa, work status, etc. Working in Japan will require work visa or whatever visa you can get from the embassy. Otherwise, you can visit Japan on a "visiting relatives" visa, which I think is roughly equivalent to a tourist visa but with just a bit more leniency.

So, you will have to examine carefully what you plan to do in the future before you make your decision to gain US citizenship or remain a permanent resident. (Of course, you can simply defer becoming a US citizen until you think you want to settle in the US permanently.)

Hope it helps!!

Mike Cash · 17 Dec 2006

Since the OP has never been back after making her one-and-only post, this is all academic now.

epigene · 17 Dec 2006

Mike Cash said:
Since the OP has never been back after making her one-and-only post, this is all academic now.

Oh, okay! I wasn't looking at the date!

Index · 17 Dec 2006

Mike Cash said:
Since the OP has never been back after making her one-and-only post, this is all academic now.

I had a feeling that might happen...and after all the effort :banghead:

jonathancameron · 28 Jan 2007

leonmarino said:
I had to give up my Japanese nationality a while ago.. It was a pretty confusing happening I have to say. I didn't give it much thought back then; I got a letter from the Japanese ambassy stating I had to choose either Japanese or Dutch nationality. I chose the Dutch because that seemed easier as I wasn't planning on living in Japan.
Now, a few years later, I sometimes regret not having chosen the Japanese. Because it limits me in my mobility; it seems like I never will be able to take a loan in Japan, rent a house without trouble, or simply stay as long as I want. The Dutch are more lenient towards foreigners in many aspects.
But then again, being Dutch has its advantages too.. I think.

You should have renewed your Japanese passport in Japan, so they dont ask you tough questions. You tell them that you choose Japanese nationality, and are "trying" to renounce your Dutch. The law says you must try to give it up, not actually give it up!

Too bad, I am caucasian. I have no hope of being in your situation anyway, but I do know this much.

epigene said:
I'd like to just get back to the OP's question. Valid suggestions have already been made here, but I'd like to sum it up, with a touch of my own person opinion.
If you want to abide by the laws of Japan strictly, you must abandon your Japanese citizenship after gaining US citizenship, since Japan does not allow dual citizenship. As some have mentioned, it is easy for a naturalized Japanese citizen living in Japan, who had originally been, say, American, to simply keep both Japanese and the foreign passports by just saying nothing to the Japanese authorities. This may be illegal in the strictest sense, but it is not something that is exhaustively enforced. This does not cause a problem as long as you stay a good, law-abiding citizen in Japan or wherever.
However, since you live in the US, keeping your Japanese passport poses a problem when your passport expires. When you go to the Japanese embassy to ask for extension, I suspect that they will check on your legal status in the US. If you remain a permanent resident in the US, you can keep your Japanese passport. If you are naturalized American at that point in time, you will be forced to give up Japanese citizenship by the local Japanese embassy. You will be refused issue of a Japanese passport and will be required to remove yourself from your Japanese family's registry, thus becoming a non-citizen.
Once you become a US citizen, you will be just another American in the eyes of Japanese law and will be granted only what other Americans get regarding visa, work status, etc. Working in Japan will require work visa or whatever visa you can get from the embassy. Otherwise, you can visit Japan on a "visiting relatives" visa, which I think is roughly equivalent to a tourist visa but with just a bit more leniency.
So, you will have to examine carefully what you plan to do in the future before you make your decision to gain US citizenship or remain a permanent resident. (Of course, you can simply defer becoming a US citizen until you think you want to settle in the US permanently.)
Hope it helps!!

If you are a naturalized American, you can fly to Japan each time to renew your passport, and they know nothing of it. You can show them your Permant Residency Card, and say that you are not an American! They will not know, and they dont check so hard if you are an Issei. They ask more questions of your nationality if you are a nissei, as you are born overseas.

Thus, when registering your children, it is dangerous as you have to tell the embassy. So when having children, you MUST fly back to Japan each time so that Japan really doesn't find out. You can really lay low easily if you are an Issei!

leonmarino · 29 Jan 2007

jonathancameron said:
You should have renewed your Japanese passport in Japan, so they dont ask you tough questions. You tell them that you choose Japanese nationality, and are "trying" to renounce your Dutch. The law says you must try to give it up, not actually give it up!

I looked at the document a while ago, but it states that I needed a proof of me giving up my Dutch nationality. Ah well, what is done is done, can't care too much about it really. Thanks for your post though.

hsakakibara1 · 31 Jul 2008

Don't give up your Japanese citizenship. Take US citizenship if necessary but the way the US is going that is like buying a ticket on the Titanic. Think very, very carefully about what you are doing. The way you are now if you ahve children you can give them Japanese citizenship.

what happens if i have to give up my Japanese passport?

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