Was this the correct choice?

[dark_secrester]

Basically, I was going to go for Level 4 JLPT this year. However, I held back and opted to take Level 3 next year. Discussion on the net makes lvl4 sound too easy and not worth very much.

Basically though, It gives me 13.5 months until 2008 JLPT to learn and revise both level 3 and finish learning 4.

I chose this mainly because of the level of stress for doing an exam this year. It is too close to finish learning 4 properly without missing things (Which I do quite often).

So, opinions on whether I should have taken 4 this year or not.

 

[Glenski]

It's your choice. Save the money and bone up for level 3, or get some practice on the actual test by taking level 4 exam.

Hindsight is 20-20, so I wouldn't worry about what you have missed. Had you written this in time to register for the 2007 test, that would have been a different matter, but my advice would still be the same.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

This is precisely what I opted to do. As long as you study hard and make good on your goal next year then its worth it. The test is really not a necessity, its a benchmark of where you're at but its really up to you when you want to take it. I mean, why not just wait till you're ready for 2 or even 1? It all depends on when you want to take the plunge.

The main reason I didn't take JLPT 4 is because it's not necessarily a huge deal if you're making Japanese a life long or professional endeavour; that is, saying you succeeded at climbing the lowest rung on the ladder isn't really a marketable accolade in the work force domestically or abroad. On the other hand its great as a self-administered pat on the back among students and Japanese language enthusiasts. It unfortunately wouldn't have helped me with my career aspirations at the moment. I'd probably feel more confident walking in there with a solid JLPT 3 or 2 pass if I was going to wave any kind of certificate around. It's almost like the 4th level is there because starting at 3 would be a little too hard. Not to put it down or anything, its still an admirable goal for anyone to reach that level of proficiency.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I have a few friends who've passed Level One, and they are universal in their advice to focus on my current studies now, and take Level Three after I'm done all of my MA work. I have no doubt I could pass Level Four this year, and it isn't expensive, but I imagine I'd be better served by focusing more on my current projects rather than adding another one that, in the long run, won't amount to much. Level Four is not very impressive to anyone, really. You could pass it after taking two semesters of language classes.

 

[Paul Houghty]

In my experience you either speak Japanese or you don't. No amount of study or delaying the inevitable test is going to change this. I suggest you return home and seek employment elsewhere.

 

[dark_secrester]

Excuse me Paul, but what help was this?
I am not procrastinating, I was putting off taking a test which is not decent enough, and to do it next year at a higher stage WHICH IS WORTH MORE.
Also, seing as you only joined today, you haven't a right to say this.
Are you suggesting that I give up on learning Japanese? Yeah right.

If I go to an employer with Level 4, they would probably think it doesn't amount to much. Level 3 is worth a bit more, and seeing as I have a lot going on this year, it would have been too stressful to towards it.

I suggest to you to, on your first day of posting, to please learn some written ettiquete.
What the world needs is not people who put others down, as they are the sort of people who don't make good leaders (and therefore are less likely to earn a managerial position in a firm).
So please, don't think that I am procrastinating, as I am simply studying to take something more worthwhile.

Bakakanadajin (stupid canadian?), that is a good point. With over a year, I could learn up to level 2 (I study for 5 hours a day anyway) and probably pass it...

Anyone else with some (not put-downers) good points or past experience as to what the best thing to do is in this situation?

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Bakakanadajin (stupid canadian?)

thats me

If you're currently considering level 4 and think you're going to be at level 2 within a year I certainly commend you. For the purpose of passing a test it may well be possible to shoe-horn that much knowledge into your head during that timespan. Based on my own objective observations of my personal learning experience.. you can actually retain a large amount of 'theory' and Japanese 'language' upstairs and feel quite accomplished in the company of your books.

Becoming functional and curing that knowledge through the fires of trial, error and conversation into a strong, functional foundation takes immersion and a lot of time. I'm not sure where you live or what your intentions are, but your demonstrated ability will be equally important to your credentials when you begin seeking employment. I would personally trade in one of those 5 hours with the books for 1 hour of conversation with a native Nihonjin each day. (That's if I'm correct in assuming you're studying in your home country in a purely academic setting.)

Good luck!

 

[dark_secrester]

Thanks Stupid Canadian.

I currently don't get to talk to actual Japanese, but my penpal sent me her home telephone number. I will be able to talk to her until they come to reposses my house (I will be bankrupt!! hehe).
ありがとうございまう ばかカナダ人せんぱい！(Wow, it feels weird saying 'jinsempai', jin shoudn't have a honorific! It is too weird!!!!!)

 

[Paul Houghty]

Let me expand somewhat on my original post. Employers will not be impressed with Level 3 or 4 Japanese. You will need at least a 2 and more and more a 1 to even be considered for a position that requires Japanese skills. That's the current state of the market. If you wish to study for the level 3 test as a kind of hobby, then I commend you. On your resume, however, it will look no more impressive than an ability to use Microsoft Word.

 

[dark_secrester]

And what is this? The troll has returned for a second day.
Something I noticed, yesterday your location was Canada, today it is Japan. Getting confused? Sorry Admins, ban me if you wish, but Paul, you really, seriously, are a stupid bastard.

 

[~Dei~]

He's living in Japan but has never actually been there.

Amazing.

Anyway, I've been planning to take the JLPT Level 4 test this year to increase my chances of getting into BA Japanese Linguistics next August.

Is it worth it?

How long do you think it would take me to study for Level 3?

 

[Paul Houghty]

I was sent a private message by one of the moderators pointing out an innocent mistake. I thought, during the sign up stage, that I was being asked for my nationality. I do, in fact, reside in Japan. The matter is now closed.

Where does it say I have never been to Japan? This is clearly a lie if I reside there.

This is clearly getting out of hand. I offer some sage advice and in return I am called a "stupid bastard". Hadly living up to the "friendly forum" promise, is it?

 

[~Dei~]

Check your profile.

It says that you've never been to Japan before.

Anyway, I would hardly say suggesting that he should "return home and seek employment elsewhere" is friendly advice.

If you're going to be rude, expect the same back.

Learn some etiquette and try not to be so rude in future.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Taking the level three or level four are both fine, in my opinion. Heck, you have to start somewhere! Thinking in terms of "all or nothing" usually just causes frustration and makes a lot of people give up on their dreams. It's not like the test is only offered once in your lifetime, after all.

I personally would have recommended taking level 4 this year as a stepping stone to level 3 next year. Once you have that under your belt, you can study for the level 2. Of course, starting with the level 3 next year is fine, too. Just make sure you actually do take the test. Don't keep putting it off until next year, because next year never seems to come in the end.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

He's living in Japan but has never actually been there.
Amazing.
Anyway, I've been planning to take the JLPT Level 4 test this year to increase my chances of getting into BA Japanese Linguistics next August.
Is it worth it?
How long do you think it would take me to study for Level 3?

It depends on how well-rounded your studies are. Last spring/summer, just over a year ago, I began studying Japanese for the first time. I began with Hiragana and Katakana, and a Barron's grammar book which was written entirely in Romaji but offered a decent discussion on the basics of Japanese grammar. Along with 2 hours a week of free classes at my local ward center (I was living in Japan at the time) I gradually built up a decent vocabulary and understanding of some of the grammatical basics. I wasn't reading any Kanji or speaking much but I was able to fumble through some stuff.

Lately I've been doing a lot of language exchange, and my speaking skills have increased steadily, however it wasn't until a few weeks ago that i found a good teacher and really began knuckling down on my kanji (finally). At this point in time I'm confident I possess the tools to pass the JLPT4 rather handsomely and back that up in conversation too.

So like I pointed out to the OP, it's definitely possible to, within a couple of years, bring yourself to the point of being able to pass a level 3 test. But remember the JLPT itself is not a clear benchmark on overall Japanese communicative ability, it is moreso a standardized test of your knowledge of the written Japanese language with some listening comprehension. Turning that into everyday conversation, intuition, culturally relevant comprehension and so on will be dictated by how much of your bulk learning is put into action in an immersive environment.

So basicaly I've just repated what I said in my other post haha but yeah, within a year I think you'll definitely be able to pass the test. Again, depending on your immediate goals, if you want to be able to USE everything you learn I suggest joining a Japanese language exchange circle or something, hanging out with exchange students, etc. That way alot of what you learn will be more than just theory and fact, it will be your own language. Why simply memorize a word's meaning, when instead you can know it immediately when you hear/read it because you use it every day.

 

[Paul Houghty]

But remember the JLPT itself is not a clear benchmark on overall Japanese communicative ability, it is moreso a standardized test of your knowledge of the written Japanese language with some listening comprehension. Turning that into everyday conversation, intuition, culturally relevant comprehension and so on will be dictated by how much of your bulk learning is put into action in an immersive environment.

This is indeed sage advice. Generally speaking, Level 1 is considered to be a basic training in kanji and grammar, and after that you really start to learn the language. To do so, as bakakAdanjin mentioned, you need to be in situ. Otherwise you will be playing the piano with the lid closed! Coming to Japan involves its own set of pitfalls. However, with the right mental steel you can succeed and end up with a solid career and a house.

 

[dark_secrester]

What are you talking about? Level 1 is considered basic? Is it hell, level 1 is classed as almost completely fluent. (Thats why it requires 2000 kanji approx)

Also, since when does a Moderator know that you are living in Japan? It is an obvious lie.

Please, Paul, to test your 'awesome' skills, please translate the following, as well as putting all verbs in the polite 'masu' form.

Hello, My name is Paul Houghty. I joined 'JREF' on the 20th of September 2007. I am currently living in Japan and have a Japanese wife. She is very beautiful. I believe that there is no reason to smoke cigars or cigarettes as they are damaging to your health.

And please realise, Paul, that we will realise if you have used an online translator. If you are good enough, please do this to prove yourself and I will never say another word about your posts. However, if you are lying, it is a benchmark to show that you talk absolute rubbish.

Thanks.

 

[Paul Houghty]

I think you are confusing "fluency" with "kanji knowledge". This was entirely my point. The number of times I have met new Level 1 graduates barely able to converse in the language! This may be a difficult truth to swallow for you as you are new in Japan, but life begins after Level 1. Once you master the basics you are ready to tackle the language head on. I certainly wish you the best of luck in your studies.

If you are so intent on questioning the wisdom of the moderators on these forii, why don't you ask them yourself. Your accusation is totally uncalled for and without foundation. I haven't demanded an apology from you for your earlier profanity-laden insult so consider youself lucky. On any forum which doesn't discriminate so blantantly against new members despite their wealth of experience, you would be on report for that juvenile outburst.

I think you should translate the passage yourself, secrester, it appears to be appropriate to your level of Japanese. Be careful in thinking that "masu" equals "polite". I will gladly correct your efforts.

 

[dark_secrester]

Paul, look. I am writing now to apologize. I lost my temper earlier by swearing at you. I would like to start over with this, and I hope that we can become friends rather than fighting over topics.

Please forgive me, and can we then get back on topic.

Cheers,
Joe

 

[Paul Houghty]

Joe,

Willingly accepted and alsoe offer my own apology for coming across rather arrogant in my earlier efforts. We all start somewhere, I know, and I applaud your efforts as a beginner and wish you the best of luck. Please ask me any questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them.

Any language is rooted deeply in culture, and a simple knowledge of the structure and vocabulary is not a ticket to comprehension. That's down the track, of course. For the moment, concentrate on familiarizing yourself with the kana and kanji as well as the word order. Japanese often (to us confusingly) starts with the topic, rather than a slave subject to the verb. The Teutonic roots of English continue to haunt us to be precise, yet our language is only half-adapted to that purpose. Japanese has a different logic, and as you study you will begin to feel it. Language is no more than the expression of emotions and needs. We in English might start with "who" has the need but the Japanese might start with the need itself.

 

[Mars Man]

I would say that you have made the correct choice, dark_secrester san. You'll have to work hard towards your goal, but you can surely do it !!

Paul, please do be more careful about your information that you put out. It has some error in it. Please keep this thread on topic now, and chit chat to the Chat Room or PMs. Thanks !!

 

[Paul Houghty]

Mars, please explain.

 

[Han Chan]

Dear Dark san

I think that you should learn Japanese in the pace and particular way that suits you. The most important thing is to mind to be able to communicate well. By spending time in Japan communicating with japanese people you learn "real" japanese and not only "book" japanese. So far I am happy that I can talk with my in-law family. Fortunately, I do not have to earn by money in a japanese workplace so my childish japanese is allright for now. Frankly, I doubt that I will ever learn 2000 kanji but I am sure that I will manage anyhow. I think that you deserve all the encouragement in the world.

GANBATTE!


By the way congratulations with 20 years on wednesday!
:smoke::gulp::romance:

 

[dark_secrester]

Arigaou hanchan.
(Sorry, I have to correct you: Gambatte. I know it was probably a misspell.)
Keep working on it. Once you start learning Kanji it is easy. But don't expect to learn it in 1 year. Japanese children learn it over many years!.

And thanks, it looks like noone else has noticed that it is my birthday on wednesday!

 

[Han Chan]

I missed a key!
Gambatte is how you pronounce it, and ganbatte is how it is spelled.
Anyway you got my message.