Vegetarians......Yes or No

[KirinMan]

Well there have been a number of posts on any number of different threads here discussing the topic of vegetarian's, their diets and how they view others who do and do not eat meat.

Personally if a person makes a choice and wants to be a vegetarian, well and good however I do not appreciate some, and I emphasize some here, vegetarians that wish to impress their way of life as being the "only" way to live.

I also enjoy eating meat and vegetables as well, in my opinion we humans were meant to eat meat. That is my opinion, please share yours as well!

What do you think? What are your opinions about vegetarians vs those that are not and the issues surrounding vegetarians and their choice.

 

[aokami]

I respect vegetarians who respect other's wishes to eat the way they choose, and also respect themselves. Some of my friends went through waves of recurring vegetarianism in high school; motives usually falling under the animal cruelty defense. I have no problem with that, but if being a vegetarian becomes blindly neglecting your body's nutritional requirements based on ideals and not taking the precautions to supplement lost nutrition it is wrong. The people I knew who took the time to research good habits stuck with veg. in the long run and those who did not quit pretty quickly as they felt like crap when they did it. There are plenty of ways to do it right, but many people cannot be bothered to take the time to plan something so important to their health.

None of this is firsthand vegetarian experience, as I love meat far too much to quit. So much for Nirvana Although now that I say that I wonder how many people consciously appreciate the meat they consume? I come from a hunting family that this concept was very important in and while I myself am not a hunter I know I appreciate the sacrifice made. Still it is easy to forget in a prepackaged world.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I never ate meat even as a child and my parents didn't make me. However, I do eat dairy products like yogurt and cheese. Although they aren't a main source of food. Every once in a while I'll eat an egg. I do eat eggs though when baked in a cake or something. So I guess I would be called an ovo-lacto vegetarian, or at least that is what Continental airlines said when I requested a vegetarian meal. There are all these "levels". I am not a strict vegan. I also don't mind other people eating meat and fish. I hate to think of killing any animal, but as long as it's done with as little suffering as there can be, it's ok. People are meant to eat a varied diet and I think meat is part of it. I just personally can't stand the taste, texture and the smell. To me the two worst offenders are fish and the smell of frying hamburger. (The rest of my family eats meat/fish.)

 

[KirinMan]

I got this definition of a vegetarian from the following site;Vegetarian Society of Ireland

The Vegetarian Society of Ireland defines a vegetarian as one who does not consume meat, fish or fowl and who aims to avoid the use and consumption of battery hen eggs and slaughterhouse by-products in food, clothing, cosmetic and household products.

A vegan is one who adopts a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practical, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose. In dietary terms veganism refers to the practice of dispensing with all animal produce - including meat, fish, poultry, eggs, animal milks, honey and their derivatives.

Abhorrence of the cruel practices inherent in dairy, livestock and poultry farming is probably the most common reason for the adoption of veganism, but many people are drawn to it for health, ecological, resource, spiritual and other reasons.

To those of you that are vegetarians do you take this as an accurate definition of what a vegetarian is or how a vegetarian views to life life by?

Not being familiar with vegetarianism as a social movement I am dismayed by the fact that this definition includes a social commentary on people that make the choice to eat meat or use meat products in their diet.

Not using the term lightly here but from this definition, if accurate, describes to me a least a form of radicalism otherwise why include the phrase "all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose", it seems to me to say that people who choose not to be vegans are against them any their way or choice of lifestyle.

I am not against anyone who makes a choice to be vegetarian, however I am against people or movements that wish to infringe on my rights or the rights of others that choose not to be vegetarians.


Also in this I ask;

.....and who aims to avoid the use and consumption of battery hen eggs and slaughterhouse by-products in food, clothing, cosmetic and household products.

Well if the "meat" is not slaughterhouse produced then are the by products allowable to be used by vegetarians? I think not it does however it does seem to be a rather ambigious statement.

If there is a "better" or more accurate definition of what a vegetarian is I would appreciate someone sharing it here, thank you.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I don't think you can be a vegetarian and eat meat...then you would be a carnivore or omnivore. That's my opinion though. I do buy farm raised, free range chicken and eggs and organic milk. I don't believe in being cruel to animals, but that is not what made me a vegetarian. I simply never ate meat because I didn't like it. I have the feeling that I would be in the minority and that for the most part people become vegetarian for health reasons or moral reasons...such that their religion restricts it or they are against killing animals or using animals for any product, food, clothing or otherwise.

My overall definition of a vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat/flesh. (fish and seafood included) To me it doesn't include milk. Eggs, I am not sure...they are unfertilzed and are protein for a would be chick. As we don't eat fertilized eggs there is no "meat or flesh" in it. I guess I would classify milk/eggs/cheese acceptable in vegetarianism as it is not meat/flesh. I think you could say a "strict" vegetarian wouldn't use or ingest any product that comes from an animal or insect or anything alive with a brain.

 

[Sarapva]

I became a vegetarian after seeing some videos of factory farming and animals in slaughterhouses. I didn't like meat much anyway, so it wasn't much of a sacrifice. I'm also not a strict vegan (I do eat honey, and I'm not strict about not eating cakes or muffins made with eggs or milk). Here is a definition I found from A Handy Guide to a Plant-Based Diet | Farm Sanctuary

[

Q: What is a Vegetarian?
A: The definition of "vegetarianism" differs from person to person. Most people who call themselves vegetarians do not consume the flesh of any animal, but may eat eggs and dairy products. These people are called lacto-ovo vegetarians. Strict vegetarians, or vegans, are people who do not consume animal products of any kind, including dairy, eggs, honey, gelatin, or other animal-derived products. Many of these vegetarians also refrain from wearing leather, fur, wool, or other products made from animals.

Obeika, I have seen some arguments that raising cattle contributes to global warming (with the production of methane gas). I think this is the "environmental" aspect, as well as the waste these farms produce. I don't have anything against anyone who eats meat or believes they need it for nutrition. But look at the animals that don't eat meat - horses, cows, sheep - and see how strong they are!

The Farm Sanctuary has farms in New York and in California that take in animals that have fallen off trucks or that people bring in when they're sick. There are a lot of animals that "fall by the wayside" in farming, and they're just left to die. Here's the Farm Sanctuary web site:

We Envision a World Where Sanctuary Replaces Exploitation | Farm Sanctuary

 

[Mars Man]

Well, I have lived the vegetarian lifestyle for a while, when living with the folks from Gujarat, India, and had no problem with it at all. Yet on my own, I pretty much go with the more typical carnivorous way of the homo sapien.

Why? Just because I happen to like eating meat--maybe because I grew up in that environment without any misgivings about it, acquired the liking, and have long since stuck with it.

Of course, I have nothing at all against those who chose otherwise. I recall on one occasion at a BBQ at my house, a friend of a friend told me on the defense, that he didn't want to eat any of the meat, and once he noticed that I fully accepted that as though it was just as normal as those there who did, he dropped his defenses and relaxed. (maybe some had made fun of the choice in his past history)

 

[inertia]

My reason for becoming a vegetarian is similar to Goldiegirl's. I just didn't like most meat and the easiest way to turn it down politely at friends' houses was to say "I'm a vegetarian." In retrospect, the reason I came to dislike meat is probably because from a young age I was accustomed to eating the meat from my grandparents' farm, where the animals were raised in the old-fashioned free range way and slaughtered humanely. The meat that my grandmother cooked from these traditionally raised animals tasted good. But compared to that, the meat I tried anywhere else was inedible unless it was completely saturated in spices, like tacos or pepperoni. It was the same with milk -- the fresh sweet unpasteurized milk at my family's farm was delicious, but store milk which had been sitting in trucks and on the shelves for who-knows-how-long was undrinkable.

In my childhood ignorance, I thought the cooks were just incompetent, and adopted the term "vegetarian" to get out of eating their meat without saying their food was nasty. It wasn't until just a few years ago that organically raised meat started to become popular, and the discussions about how it tasted better than mass-produced slaughterhouse meat pumped up with hormones and antibiotics tipped me off to what had been "wrong" with the supermarket meat I hated as a child. But after being vegetarian for 15+ years, I see no reason to begin trying to eat meat again.

 

[Kinsao]

I'm not a vegetarian... I think the human body was designed to be omnivorous, and I don't feel it's unethical for humans to eat meat for nutrition when, of course, animals eat meat too! They eat each other, and not humanely either... (>.< ... lol)
On the other hand, I can appreciate why some people are vegetarian and respect their choice... because I really feel that in fact most of the meat that I (for example) would eat is either raised in an unnatural way or so heavily processed that there is an awful lot of 'bad' stuff ends up in your meat that you probably wouldn't get if you were living in a 'natural' situation and killing animals for food in the wild. If I was living in the 'wild' I wouldn't hesitate to kill an animal for food, but I disagree with some of the inhumane ways animals are farmed, kept and slaughtered. However, I don't live in the 'wild', don't have the opportunity or facility to kill for my own food, and therefore in order to eat meat at all I have to buy it from the shops. When possible I choose meat that advertises itself as being raised 'organically' and/or in particularly free-ranging conditions (rather than battery farming), but of course in pre-packaged foods I don't get that option and being lazy I still buy pre-packaged food at times! *blush* .. where you really don't know where the meat has come from.
I suppose I 'justify' this to myself by the reasoning that I'm not against eating animals as food - simply, I disapprove of the unnecessary suffering caused to them by inhumane farming and/or slaughtering methods.
This does of course extend to other animal products such as milk, cheese, eggs and leather, but I have to admit I don't think about them much... simply because if I was to think about animal products in everything, it's amazing how much they are around, and in products that you wouldn't expect.. o_o ..
Yes I think humans were designed to eat meat and as such there is nothing wrong with doing it.. but I disapprove of some methods.. guess you could say I'm a hypocrite for continuing to eat meat, but there are also health reasons.. as someone mentioned, a lot of people become vegetarian without taking the trouble to educate themselves on how to get their full amount of nutrients they need (I know a few people who have done this >_>).. true, there are many vegetarians who take the time and trouble to have an extremely balanced and healthy diet ^^ but this isn't always easy, and it can also be more expensive, which I've noticed some people seem to discount as a motivating factor but when you're living on a shoestring you notice every little thing >.< ... personally having suffered from quite serious health problems in the past I've been warned I could be storing up big trouble for myself if I cut meat out of my diet o_o although it must be said I don't eat much of it! because I'm lazy and I can't be bothered to cook! *blush* so... apart from cold meat sometimes...

 

[Sarapva]

I thought I'd post a quotation from Henry David Thoreau's "Walden" (he was an American philosopher in the 1800's who lived for 2 years in a small cabin as an experiment to see how much or how little he really needed to live):

Is it not a reproach that man is a carnivorous animal? True, he can and does live, in a great measure, by preying on other animals; but this is a miserable way,-as any one who will go to snaring rabbits, or slaughtering lambs, may learn,-and he will be regarded as a benefactor of his race who shall teach man to confine himself to a more innocent and wholesome diet. Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized.

 

[Raika]

I'm not a vegetarian, but there's no particular reason for it. I was brought up with meat. ..although I must say I'm not all too fond of meat, except for chicken. I can't resist fried chicken. or cooked chicken. any prepared chicken anyway.. I have a few vegetarian friends, though. They all refuse meat because of their love for animals.

 

[Flashjeff]

Well, I love vegetables, especially corn and string beans (particularly raw string beans), but I've gotta have my daily portion of dead animal (or bird or fish). Yum! Hey, if people want to be vegans all the time, that's their choice, more power to 'em!

 

[KirinMan]

They all refuse meat because of their love for animals.

Do your friends also refrain from eating fish or seafood products as well?

 

[misa.j]

I'm not a vegetarian but respect those who are, as long as they don't try to impose their choice on others. I love vegetables and can skip meat or fish often, but after doing some serious hiking or work-out, I can only think about steak or chicken on the grill.

I try to avoid consuming endangered animals or foods killed for luxuary; I'm not interested in eating the bluefin tuna or sea bass which have been overfished and disappearing from the oceans, or veal meat from baby cows.

 

[Sarapva]

Well, I love vegetables, especially corn and string beans (particularly raw string beans

I also like fresh raw string (or green) beans. I grew some peas once, and ate almost all of them raw (cooking took the flavor out a little). Fresh corn here in Virginia in the summer is delicious! As well as tomatoes, cucumbers ..... It seems that since I've stopped eating meat, I really enjoy vegetables more.

 

[Nicky]

I became a vegetarian when I was 15. My only reason for doing so was because I didn't like the idea of supporting the animal cruelty that is sometimes found in slaughter houses. I don't think eating meat is wrong, or killing an animal to get meat is wrong. I just never liked the idea that some slaughter houses actually abuse the animals the entire time they are alive. Nothing deserves that kind of treatment even if it is destined to eventually end up in my tummy. I think my point was basically just "This isn't right and I want no part in it".

Although, Last year I switched to a pescatarian diet. It suits me better and allows me to have lobster. The only meat I eat is fish and seafood.

On a side note, when I went veggie my mom viewed my decision to not eat meat as if I had stabbed her in the back. She also refused to cook for me, claiming that she "didn't know how to cook for a vegetarian". I lived off of nasty veggie friendly t.v. dinners for a year because I couldn't even boil water at the time. um... family get togethers were awkward, being surrounded by seven or eight somewhat miffed middle aged women who demand to know why you don't just pick the pieces of meat out the casserole that they're trying to force feed you. etc.

 

[yukio_michael]

Nothing deserves that kind of treatment even if it is destined to eventually end up in my tummy.

Before slaughter houses, men threw spears into the biggest animals who slowly died before them... there wasn't any such thing as the "clean shot"...

Slaughterhouses are mechanised for creating food, that food happens to be living things, I wouldn't say they tourture them... I think it's probably in their best interest to kill them the faster the better... but still, I think you should do what you think is right.

It's hard to tell, you espouse a more vegan response to diet than one of a vegetarian... I mean, do you eat eggs? Do you drink milk?

I don't think I could eat completely vegetarian... though I'm not shoving meat down my throat every other second... A good ballance of foods is essential to a person's diet. I cook with tofu, but I wouldn't neceissarily replace meet with it.... though tofu curry can be pretty tasty.

One thing I'll say is that a couple in New York raised a baby as vegan, and that baby died because it didn't get the nutrients it needed to survive... that alone makes me wary of the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle.

 

[Nicky]

do you eat eggs? Do you drink milk?

Yes, but the eggs and milk I buy are all from those so called "safe" companies that advertise that they treat their animals better. Of course there is no real way to tell that they actually are doing that...

Slaughterhouses are mechanised for creating food, that food happens to be living things, I wouldn't say they tourture them...

I wouldn't either. Well at least I wouldn't say that it happens at every single one of them, but there are some. There are countless videos floating around of workers (who are probably disgruntled) kicking or beating the livestock. It doesn't seem like it'll serve any purpose, will my steak somehow be tastier if a worker beats the crap out of a cow before it goes to be killed (simply because he's probably having a bad day)?

I don't support raising vegetarian/vegan kids. Mostly for the fact that you would be setting them up for years of kids teasing them for not being able to eat what they consider "normal" food. "Why can't you have a burger?... so like if a cow with a knife attacked you in an alley, would you kill it or let it kill you?" And also, I don't like the idea of forcing a lifestyle choice onto someone.

In reference to your spear comment, I don't really care about killing animals. Things die. And you should be " wary of the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle". I have met tons of very unhealthily vegans and vegetarians. There are plenty who present it as a very healthy lifestyle, but it really does not make you any healthier than any random meat eater. If a person doesn't know how to eat healthy before going veggie, they generally don't know how to after either.

 

[Sarapva]

Yes, but the eggs and milk I buy are all from those so called "safe" companies that advertise that they treat their animals better. Of course there is no real way to tell that they actually are doing that..

One way you can be pretty sure is to buy from organic companies - part of the regulations they have to go by to be certified organic is humane treatment of the animals. Of course, "humane" could be interpreted differently, but there probably aren't any undercover videos of mistreatment of animals from organic farms. You also have the assurance that there are no health-compromising hormones or antibiotics in organic food.

Good for you, Nicky, for sticking to your beliefs even at 15 years old and in the face of all that adversity!

 

[Nicky]

Thanks. Although, I'm 21 now (and not a vegetarian anymore). =/

 

[KirinMan]

And also, I don't like the idea of forcing a lifestyle choice onto someone.

I'm pretty sure you mellowed with age, but back when you were 15 and a "vegetarian", you forced it on to your family.

My sister is a vegetarian and she will tell you that she doesnt like the fact that people would raise their kids not to be vegetarian.

Why is it assumed that being a vegetarian is a lifestyle choice? Why do people who choose to be vegetarians use terminology such as this to describe their eating habits? Or is it more than just their diet that one thinks of when saying they are vegetarians?

So to use this logic in my choice to eat meat I am making a lifestyle choice to indirectly kill cows? Maybe so, but to me at least they sure do taste great on the grill.

 

[DoctorP]

So to use this logic in my choice to eat meat I am making a lifestyle choice to indirectly kill cows? Maybe so, but to me at least they sure do taste great on the grill.

Not necessarily...I could be killing chickens or pigs!

 

[Clawn]

I'm not a vegetarian, and I never will even consider being one. There are two reasons for this. The first, and most important, reason being that I despise most fruits and vegetables. Anything outside the realm of rice, carrots, peas, apples, and bananas are impossible for me to eat without subsequent regurgitation. I just don't find too many fruits and veggies all that appetizing. The second reason is that my father is very fond of cooking, and he is extraordinarily skilled as a chef. I could never say no to duck on Christmas Eve or a well cooked steak.

 

[Sarapva]

So to use this logic in my choice to eat meat I am making a lifestyle choice to indirectly kill cows?

Yes, I think this is true. Even though most people don't actually kill the animals themselves, they are supporting it by eating meat. I think we all need to at least take this responsibility instead of "hiding" behind the industries that do all the dirty work for us (not saying you're doing this, Obeika - I think you're taking some responsibility just by considering all this). This includes other industries too, not just the meat industry. I've heard that the average person eats something like 95 animals a year. If a meat-eating person knows how the meat gets to him and can eat it with a good conscience, there's nothing more to be said about it.

 

[KirinMan]

Yes, I think this is true. Even though most people don't actually kill the animals themselves, they are supporting it by eating meat. I think we all need to at least take this responsibility instead of "hiding" behind the industries that do all the dirty work for us (not saying you're doing this, Obeika - I think you're taking some responsibility just by considering all this). This includes other industries too, not just the meat industry.

Why is it "dirty" work? I see nothing dirty or wrong with an industry helping me by providing food for myself and my family. I dont have the space to raise my own cows, pigs, and chickens so I need someone to provide them for me, and I pay for that everytime I go to the grocery.

I guess I could start making comments about the plight of the migrant workers that are picking the vegetables that a vegetarian may or may not eat.

Which is worse the human suffering or the animal's? That's a rhetorical question because I think that the vast majority of people will say "Of course" "The humans". Also I dont think that any rancher views his or her stock with such distain as to wish it any suffering in it's life, it also lessens it's value at market.

I'm sorry but I dont particulary like some of the terminology that some people use against us "meat-eaters". I am not pointing fingers at anyone here, particularly not you Sarapva. I hope that maybe you could explain why some vegetarians use rather harsh and provoking language in an effort to make us carnivore's look like something less than human.

I've heard that the average person eats something like 95 animals a year. If a meat-eating person knows how the meat gets to him and can eat it with a good conscience, there's nothing more to be said

I can live with it, and I appreciate your honesty in sharing your views here. Thank you.