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Ueno to Shibuya

budd

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12 in the morning, sometimes a little bit earlier (11:45) for other lines?
option is to visit a club that's open till 4 or 5 in the morning
 

King of Tokyo

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Yeh.. I heard they restart around 5.. so I'm good.. I'll chill till 5.. works out nicely.. heh.. no problem
 

Mike Cash

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What is more likely to ruin your fun is the fact that you are far too young to be drinking (legally, anyway).

It used to be that the trains/subways stopped running around midnight or so, but it has been quite a while since I had to make use of them. I do have occasion to drive through Tokyo in the wee hours of the morning and notice that some stations are still lit up. Whether the trains or running or not, I don't really know.

If you really have serious need for this sort of info, how about doing a search on Google Japan?
 

King of Tokyo

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I will be 18 at the time I go to Japan. In Canada, that is the legal drinking age, and in Japan, I'm a foreigner so it won't matter that I have to be 20. I doubt I will have any trouble being able to drink.. I have the information I need now so I dont need to Google it. Plus, asking on this forum is a better way, it saves the trouble of searching all around, it contributes to making new threads, and this is what this section is for, if everyone was told to google everything why not just redirect this forum to google. So I think I made the right choice. :)

P.S. Thankyou for your help 🙂
 

Mike Cash

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It will matter in that the legal drinking age in Japan is 20. It has been quite a while since I was anywhere near that age, and back then they didn't bother with checking ID. I have no idea if they check now or not. I strongly suspect, though, that the issue won't come up. In the last couple of years they have started putting up signs in stores which sell liquor strongly pointing out that the legal age is 20 and that ID will be required for liquor sales. Like so many things in Japan, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual action begins and ends with putting up the signs. I would be surprised if you have trouble getting served in drinking establishments.

However, should you get stinko and for whatever reason come to the attention of the police, it could cause problems. What those problems might be, I have no real idea.

Googling info straight from actual Japanese sources (for instance, train info from sites put up and maintained by the railroads) is always a more sure source of information than just asking folks who are either guessing or relying on memories which may either be faulty or out of date.

Always happy to help (really), even if much of the time I do come across as a total ***.
 

King of Tokyo

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mikecash said:
It will matter in that the legal drinking age in Japan is 20. It has been quite a while since I was anywhere near that age, and back then they didn't bother with checking ID. I have no idea if they check now or not. I strongly suspect, though, that the issue won't come up. In the last couple of years they have started putting up signs in stores which sell liquor strongly pointing out that the legal age is 20 and that ID will be required for liquor sales. Like so many things in Japan, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual action begins and ends with putting up the signs. I would be surprised if you have trouble getting served in drinking establishments.

However, should you get stinko and for whatever reason come to the attention of the police, it could cause problems. What those problems might be, I have no real idea.

Googling info straight from actual Japanese sources (for instance, train info from sites put up and maintained by the railroads) is always a more sure source of information than just asking folks who are either guessing or relying on memories which may either be faulty or out of date.

Always happy to help (really), even if much of the time I do come across as a total ***.

Hmm.. well I don't predict any real problems with having to be 20 but I guess I'll have to deal with them if they arise.

Same with police catching me.. I'm not gonna walk around being a complete drunken fool.. Oh wait, yes I am.. crap, this could be a problem.. lol But naw I think I'll avoid getting into any trouble that would cause police to have to talk to me.. and if they do I can always try pretending not to speak any japanese.. like say "Nihangooo Waagareemazen" in a really bad gaijin accent lmao.. Or speaking really fast and loud in english.. heh.. but anyway this is just foolish brainstorming should their be any problem.. but I don't expect any.. heh.

I do use Google frequently, but it can't hurt to try the forums too, that's what they're here for after all :)

And yeh I'm sure you mean well most of the time.. unfortunately meaning well doesn't guarantee words of kindness :D
 

Mike Cash

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I've been extraordinarily civil on these jref forums. I'd rather my comments here be frank and useful than kind and vapid any day of the week, so the fact that my posts don't drip with words of kindness doesn't particulary bother me. I invite you to join me on usenet if you want to see what a ***** I normally am. <imagine an asinine smilie here>

A serious note on the cop thing, though....

Becoming the object of their interest is very akin to being involved in a traffic accident. By that I mean that you needn't necessarily be the one who caused it in order for it to happen to you anyway. You can be the most careful driver in the world, and some other guy can WHAM! drag you into his accident. In the same way, you could be the most peacable easygoing drunk on the scene, and the behavior of those around you (and not necessarily even those with you) can have the cops offering you their unwanted attention and hospitality.

You don't have to be the one who causes trouble in order to suffer from it, to put it more succinctly.
 

budd

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^ pretty true
if two foreigners are fighting, police just toss them both in the clink -- maybe let the one who looks more worse for wear go free eventually. bad idea to get into trouble on an island -- get away how?
if a foreigner and a native are fighting? well, who has better command of the language (and can reason with the authorities)?
as for using info found in the forums, fine, but i still think it's better to get the opinions of many than just a few. there are maybe ten/twenty people who can answer questions in these forums reliably. what if only two answer the question due to whatever reasons?
plus this is internet forum. really hard to tell what another person will encounter/desire/break in a completely different country than what was raised in
i vote search engine/google (in addition) also
 

King of Tokyo

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Once again, I have already searched google, so I was just doing both.. it can't hurt to try Jref.. -_-'
 
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Jref may be better than google as there ARE people who live in Japan and can give up too date info or who know a variety of decent weblinks they use themselves.

Eg my two train timetable pages I use. No way could I find them via google. Someone had to give them too me.
 

King of Tokyo

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FirstHousePooka said:
Jref may be better than google as there ARE people who live in Japan and can give up too date info or who know a variety of decent weblinks they use themselves.

Eg my two train timetable pages I use. No way could I find them via google. Someone had to give them too me.

See, atleast someone agrees, plus, I got my answer for the first question I asked from FirstHousePooka in only 7 minutes after I posted.. way easier than google.. ✌️
 

Mike Cash

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budd said:
^ pretty true
if two foreigners are fighting, police just toss them both in the clink -- maybe let the one who looks more worse for wear go free eventually. bad idea to get into trouble on an island -- get away how?
if a foreigner and a native are fighting? well, who has better command of the language (and can reason with the authorities)?

Another point to keep in mind.....

I wonder if King is aware of how long the Japanese (in)justice system can hold people without filing charges?

Initial police hold: 48 hours
Extension: 24 hours
Initial prosecutor's hold 10 days
Extension: 10 days

So you can be held for a total of 23 days before they have to either file charges or release you.

Further points to keep in mind:

1. You are not entitled to phone anyone and tell them where you are and what has happened to you. If they want, they can hold you 100% incommunicado
2. You do not have the right to contact an attorney until such time as charges are actually filed. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during questioning.
3. Pre-trial bail is routinely denied, and cases proceed at a geological pace. Confinement can continue even through any appeals process. I know of one case where a woman spent 13 years in jail while her case proceeded through the original trial and the two appeals that one can file. When it was all wrapped up, she was sentenced to 8 years. Judges have full discretion whether to credit all, some, or none of the time already confined toward the final sentence. In this woman's case, despite having already been locked up for 13 years for a crime that got her a sentence of 8 years, the judge decided to send her to prison for six months anyway.
4. Illegally obtained evidence is routinely admitted in Japanese trials.
5. Judges largely view trials as a formality, and already have an idea how much time they're going to give you before opening statements are even made.
6. Defense attorneys routinely feed damaging information about their clients to the prosecutor. So that whole attorney-client privilege thing is something of a farce.
7. Prosecutors enjoy a conviction rate of (last I read) about 98.8%. If you go to trial, you can count on being convicted. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion.
8. Investigators face little or no restrictions about how they question you. Sleep and food deprivation are par for the course, with detectives being perfectly content to interrogate you in shifts, perhaps up to 18 or 20 hours per day.
9. Police reports sent to the prosecutor, in which you give your statement, are supposed to be written by the detainee, but in actual fact they are written by the police, who know just how to word them to put you in the most damning position posible.
10. Police reports are routinely falsified and forged. The pages are not sequentially numbered, and it is normal practice for them to write one up which fits with the detainee's take on the matter, have them sign it, and then remove all the interior pages and rewrite them with damning material.

Believe me, King, I have done rather extensive study on the Japanese criminal justice system through reading numerous Japanese language materials on the subject. They not only hold all the aces, they make up the rules as they go along. You absolutely do not want to be the object of their attention. I have no idea how long a visit to Japan you may have planned, but do you really want to waste 23 days of it sitting in the pokey and sleeping on a concrete floor in a cell where the lights are on 24/7, your every move directly observed by cops?
 

King of Tokyo

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mikecash said:
Another point to keep in mind.....

I wonder if King is aware of how long the Japanese (in)justice system can hold people without filing charges?

Initial police hold: 48 hours
Extension: 24 hours
Initial prosecutor's hold 10 days
Extension: 10 days

So you can be held for a total of 23 days before they have to either file charges or release you.

Further points to keep in mind:

1. You are not entitled to phone anyone and tell them where you are and what has happened to you. If they want, they can hold you 100% incommunicado
2. You do not have the right to contact an attorney until such time as charges are actually filed. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during questioning.
3. Pre-trial bail is routinely denied, and cases proceed at a geological pace. Confinement can continue even through any appeals process. I know of one case where a woman spent 13 years in jail while her case proceeded through the original trial and the two appeals that one can file. When it was all wrapped up, she was sentenced to 8 years. Judges have full discretion whether to credit all, some, or none of the time already confined toward the final sentence. In this woman's case, despite having already been locked up for 13 years for a crime that got her a sentence of 8 years, the judge decided to send her to prison for six months anyway.
4. Illegally obtained evidence is routinely admitted in Japanese trials.
5. Judges largely view trials as a formality, and already have an idea how much time they're going to give you before opening statements are even made.
6. Defense attorneys routinely feed damaging information about their clients to the prosecutor. So that whole attorney-client privilege thing is something of a farce.
7. Prosecutors enjoy a conviction rate of (last I read) about 98.8%. If you go to trial, you can count on being convicted. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion.
8. Investigators face little or no restrictions about how they question you. Sleep and food deprivation are par for the course, with detectives being perfectly content to interrogate you in shifts, perhaps up to 18 or 20 hours per day.
9. Police reports sent to the prosecutor, in which you give your statement, are supposed to be written by the detainee, but in actual fact they are written by the police, who know just how to word them to put you in the most damning position posible.
10. Police reports are routinely falsified and forged. The pages are not sequentially numbered, and it is normal practice for them to write one up which fits with the detainee's take on the matter, have them sign it, and then remove all the interior pages and rewrite them with damning material.

Believe me, King, I have done rather extensive study on the Japanese criminal justice system through reading numerous Japanese language materials on the subject. They not only hold all the aces, they make up the rules as they go along. You absolutely do not want to be the object of their attention. I have no idea how long a visit to Japan you may have planned, but do you really want to waste 23 days of it sitting in the pokey and sleeping on a concrete floor in a cell where the lights are on 24/7, your every move directly observed by cops?

Well... I must say.. this post.. has.. really.. made me feel.. good?..Lol.. Ok well I know you're only telling the truth so I guess I won't count it as raining on my parade lol.. well yeh I'm going to have to take the risks I suppose because I am definitely going to be drinking when I go there, it would just be unlogical not to.. lol.. but yeh.. I can't say I wanna go to prison for 23 days for drinking.. well it all depends, and I am going for 3 months/90 days the maximum without a visa or whatever.. I don't plan on spending 23 days in prison though, I'll try to be as careful as possible.. ah man mikecash you have a way of causing paranoia lol.. but it's all good, your only telling facts, but I am afraid I'll have to take my chances.. 😌
 

Mike Cash

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The chances that you will actually have anything at all to be worried about are so close to zero that it isn't worth worrying about. But it is always good to have as many of the practical facts as possible. The non-practical stuff, I wouldn't dream of telling you about. Finding that stuff on your own is 99% of the fun of the trip.
 

King of Tokyo

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mikecash said:
The chances that you will actually have anything at all to be worried about are so close to zero that it isn't worth worrying about. But it is always good to have as many of the practical facts as possible. The non-practical stuff, I wouldn't dream of telling you about. Finding that stuff on your own is 99% of the fun of the trip.

Yup, Never hurts to have knowledge of what could happen, even if it isn't highly likely. Before I started to study japan, I was like the average japan-fanatic who thinks Japan is a heavenly place where nothing can go wrong. heh. now even though I still can't compare to someone who has been there, I atleast know it is not perfect, but is still a really great place. I plan to enjoy a little vacation and try not to worry about things too much. I know a good amountabout japan and I've still got another two years of learning before the trip. But if I get thrown in jail, then I'll just have to be really pissed off and wish I was more careful, heh.
 
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