This weeks new lesson #5

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

The textbook/workbook I'm using is used throughout this ken's universities. Some of you may have used this one also at your university nationwide, don't know though. It is provided though the local govt and taught with volunteer teachers, many of whom have limited English speaking abilities. So the class has very little spoken English in it. Actually with few exceptions, all the students are foreign exchange students from around the world.
Today I began lesson 5. Class is this Saturday, Oct. 29.
Here is the photo copies of the pages. I'll post my assignments as I do them and if you folks can check my answers, not necessarily give me the corrections, but tell me if they are wrong, I'll try to figure out what I did wrong. In many cases I will simple not know the answers, since I'm preparing myself before class. The class is difficult and I think it goes way too fast for my understanding even when I'm prepared. The other students have other Japanese classes during the day and they are well prepared, as for me, I try to keep a smiling when I mess up. :banghead:

Can't find here how to post the pics from my computer.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

So you're not going to post your work on last week's lesson and let us help you get that down?

What is the name of the book? We may be able to find a pdf of it online.

Is it going to be an every week thing that you post questions on Saturday and can't check for replies until the following Tuesday? We've done this twice in a row now. Frankly, I'm not going to bother trying to rush answers to you hours ahead of your lesson if I know you're not going to see them until days after the lesson and even then just totally ignore the replies trying to help you with what you asked about and not bother to show your work or give any indication whatsoever that this whole studying Japanese thing has crossed your mind at all any other time than just before class, when you apparently give it a quick look in hopes of not embarrassing yourself in class. I'll bust a gut to help anybody who's giving it a serious effort and working with me, but I won't lift a finger to help anybody who is half-ässing and who gives me the impression I'm taking their problem more seriously than they are themselves. And so far that's the impression I get.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
So you're not going to post your work on last week's lesson and let us help you get that down?

What is the name of the book? We may be able to find a pdf of it online.

Is it going to be an every week thing that you post questions on Saturday and can't check for replies until the following Tuesday? We've done this twice in a row now. Frankly, I'm not going to bother trying to rush answers to you hours ahead of your lesson if I know you're not going to see them until days after the lesson and even then just totally ignore the replies trying to help you with what you asked about and not bother to show your work or give any indication whatsoever that this whole studying Japanese thing has crossed your mind at all any other time than just before class, when you apparently give it a quick look in hopes of not embarrassing yourself in class. I'll bust a gut to help anybody who's giving it a serious effort and working with me, but I won't lift a finger to help anybody who is half-ässing and who gives me the impression I'm taking their problem more seriously than they are themselves. And so far that's the impression I get.

Mike if I can figure out how to upload the picture (file on my computer) and post the assignment while and after I done with it, I know this will make it easier for all watching my post. I'm usually good on replying when people help me out, I try my best to answer as fast as I can. Sometimes though I'm without internet and soon as I have it, I'm always checking my post with replies.
So is there a way to post a file on my computer in "Learning Japanese folder"?

Thanks, Mike.

The name of the book is "Basic Japanese Language Learning in Yamaguchi II

It would be much easier if the book is posted online. That's a good suggestion, didn't think of that.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
So you're not going to post your work on last week's lesson and let us help you get that down?

What is the name of the book? We may be able to find a pdf of it online.

Is it going to be an every week thing that you post questions on Saturday and can't check for replies until the following Tuesday? We've done this twice in a row now. Frankly, I'm not going to bother trying to rush answers to you hours ahead of your lesson if I know you're not going to see them until days after the lesson and even then just totally ignore the replies trying to help you with what you asked about and not bother to show your work or give any indication whatsoever that this whole studying Japanese thing has crossed your mind at all any other time than just before class, when you apparently give it a quick look in hopes of not embarrassing yourself in class. I'll bust a gut to help anybody who's giving it a serious effort and working with me, but I won't lift a finger to help anybody who is half-ässing and who gives me the impression I'm taking their problem more seriously than they are themselves. And so far that's the impression I get.

This is the only info I can find on the net. Japanese Lessons at Yamaguchi University｜Taiken Japan

I took a photo copy of the book, but yet again, how do I post it on this thread, or is it even possible to do it. My screen says "insert bookmarks" "post reply" "more options". That's all, no place for file uploads.

I just noticed that while sending this upload file shows up. Maybe I have to wait longer before posting?

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Dang this is strange, trying to post the copy of the front page of the book and still can't.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

You can include it in your post directly.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

OK, I see the problem, it is invisible. It's in the center between post reply and more options.

Got it now. Here are the pages of lesson 5. Mike I now will be able to post a picture of my work on lesson 4 and I do have a comment on what the teacher said. I was without internet for the last several days as I mention so now I'll catch up on my past post for assistance on lesson 4. Again, thanks Mike.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

We all understand that you're in special circumstances due to your recent life upheaval. If you don't have internet access from Saturday afternoons until Tuesdays, we can understand that and work around it...but if that is the case and you want help previewing your upcoming Saturday lesson, then please post it earlier in the week so you can actually see replies and be helped by them before class. Your textbook really isn't a very good one for your circumstances, but we can work around that.

Did you already do book 1?

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
We all understand that you're in special circumstances due to your recent life upheaval. If you don't have internet access from Saturday afternoons until Tuesdays, we can understand that and work around it...but if that is the case and you want help previewing your upcoming Saturday lesson, then please post it earlier in the week so you can actually see replies and be helped by them before class. Your textbook really isn't a very good one for your circumstances, but we can work around that.

Did you already do book 1?

Thanks for understanding and I'll do my best to get everything done by Friday. I took course one last year and I bought the book again this season to review what I learned. Due to the event of recent I'd really forgot most of the teaching and tried to focus on what was being taught at the time, but... anyway I'm reviewing it now also. I'll have questions on it later. The first few chapters I know but later on in the book, much of it didn't soak in. I think that is the problem I'm having also with this level 2, level 1 didn't really soak in all that well with me.
Again, folks and Mike, thanks for your understand.

Are the pictures clear enough to make them out? I don't think we can enlarge them on this forum, am I right?

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

They are for the most part kind of blurry. Sadly, as you have indicated, the instructions and explanations range from crappy to non-existent, don't they? I looked it up online and learned it was put together by a well-meaning group of local volunteers and makes absolutely no use of any standard curriculum.

日本語教育コンテンツ共有システム

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
They are for the most part kind of blurry. Sadly, as you have indicated, the instructions and explanations range from crappy to non-existent, don't they? I looked it up online and learned it was put together by a well-meaning group of local volunteers and makes absolutely no use of any standard curriculum.

日本語教育コンテンツ共有システム

I shouldn't say I agree, but I do because it really makes it hard to learn since I'm not enrolled at the university with other courses. The other students are, so they may find this book easier to understand then me.
I wonder if there is somewhere I can post these pages on the net and where they are clearer and can be enlarged.
I guess the link you found did not show the pages to the book, if they did, that would be great. I doubt the book is photo copied somewhere on the net. I looked but I'm not computer savvy.

Now on my screen I can see Upload a file, its not invisible now. If you corrected that, thanks Mike.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

I don't have the power to correct anything around here....or anywhere else either, come to think of it.

I never thought I would ever direct anyone to Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide, but we're going to need some kind of existing explanation in English to keep us from essentially having to type up an English version of your lessons from scratch. You can check for explanations from Tae Kim and we can help you with whatever remains unclear after that.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/grammar_guide.pdf

Save it to your computer so you can use it offline too.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
I don't have the power to correct anything around here....or anywhere else either, come to think of it.

I never thought I would ever direct anyone to Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide, but we're going to need some kind of existing explanation in English to keep us from essentially having to type up an English version of your lessons from scratch. You can check for explanations from Tae Kim and we can help you with whatever remains unclear after that.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/grammar_guide.pdf

Save it to your computer so you can use it offline too.

Got it, thanks.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

musicisgood said:
OK, I see the problem, it is invisible. It's in the center between post reply and more options.

Got it now. Here are the pages of lesson 5. Mike I now will be able to post a picture of my work on lesson 4 and I do have a comment on what the teacher said. I was without internet for the last several days as I mention so now I'll catch up on my past post for assistance on lesson 4. Again, thanks Mike.

Dialogue Comprehension Exercise

This is picture one on the thread with the page picture. It's question and answer. I answered according to the best of my training so far. If mistake, let me know and I'll correct it as soon as possible. I have to stick with the above lesson dialogue, so the answers will probably be very short and what is in the script.

１．マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

ジョギングシューズです

２．マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてめましたか。

あかいです。

３．まりりんさんは、なぜジョウギングシューズをかいませんでしたか。

またこんどにします

The answers are my answers given. You'll have to read the dialogue on the picture given on the thread with the 5 pages on it.

Thanks, folks

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Dialogue Comprehension Exercise

This is picture one on the thread with the page picture. It's question and answer. I answered according to the best of my training so far. If mistake, let me know and I'll correct it as soon as possible. I have to stick with the above short examples, so the answers will probably be very short.

This is page 34 practice 1 and 2 .

１．これはだれの本ですか。わたしのです

２．これわだれのコーヒですか。先生のです

３．このノートはだれのですか。パクさんのです

４．これはどこのお金ですか。ちゅうごくｋａｒａのです

５．これはどこのワインですか。フランスからのです

On number 4 and 5,are thoset correct？

This is practice number 2 on the page.

１．ｎａｋａｍｕｒａｓａｎｎｏｋｕｒｍａｗａｄｏｒｅｄｅｓｕｋａ．しろくてちさいのです。

２．こばやしさんのくるまはどれですか。くろくておおきいのです。

３．くろいくろまはだれのですか。こばやしさんのです

４．小さいくるまはだれのですか。中村さんのです。

Sorry about the way the letters turned out, didn't know how to fix it.

Please look at the page to get an understanding of what is being taught. I don't think the short lesson explains it very well though.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

musicisgood said:
Dialogue Comprehension Exercise

１．マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

ジョギングシューズです

２．マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてめましたか。

あかいです。

３．まりりんさんは、なぜジョウギングシューズをかいませんでしたか。

またこんどにします

Thanks, folks

Typo marked in red.

While your answers on 1 and 2 aren't technically incorrect, you should try answering using the lesson's target grammar point. Hint: the bulk of the answer is in the question. Largely a matter of simple substitution.

For 3.... read the dialogue again and see if you can spot why she didn't buy the shoes.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
Typo marked in red.

While your answers on 1 and 2 aren't technically incorrect, you should try answering using the lesson's target grammar point. Hint: the bulk of the answer is in the question. Largely a matter of simple substitution.

For 3.... read the dialogue again and see if you can spot why she didn't buy the shoes.

OK, give me a couple of minutes to figure it out. Thanks Mike.

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

Hope this is right.

１．マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

ジョギングシューズです
ジョキングシュズかいてです。

２．マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてめましたか。

あかいのくつです。

３．まりりんさんは、なぜジョウギングシューズをかいませんでしたか。
ちょうとちいさいです。

Are these correct now?

Mike Cash said:
Typo marked in red.

While your answers on 1 and 2 aren't technically incorrect, you should try answering using the lesson's target grammar point. Hint: the bulk of the answer is in the question. Largely a matter of simple substitution.

For 3.... read the dialogue again and see if you can spot why she didn't buy the shoes.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

musicisgood said:
Hope this is right.

１．マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

ジョギングシューズです
ジョキングシュズかいてです。

２．マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてめましたか。

あかいのくつです。

３．まりりんさんは、なぜジョウギングシューズをかいませんでしたか。
ちょうとちいさいです。

Are these correct now?

Look at the parts I underlined and bolded. Those are the target grammar point. They should be in your answers.

Watch typos.

はいてみました, not はいてめました.

I pointed that one out earlier too.

ちょっと not ちょうと.

Your answer for 3 is understandable, but don't you think it would be better with something that indicates "because" since it is a "why?" question?

musicisgood · 26 Oct 2016

ジョキングシュズかいてです。
ジョキングシュズかいくてです。

ちょうとちいさいです。
ちょっとちさいので。

Are these OK now?

I noticed the め should be み。

Thanks, Mike.

Mike Cash · 26 Oct 2016

musicisgood said:
ジョキングシュズかいてです。
ジョキングシュズかいくてです。

ちょうとちいさいです。
ちょっとちさいので。

Are these OK now?

I noticed the め should be み。

Thanks, Mike.

No, not at all.

musicisgood said:
マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

I said the underlined parts should be in your answers. They're not in your answers at all.

マリリンさんはジョギングシューズをかいにきました。

musicisgood said:
マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてめましたか

マリリンさんはあかいくつをはいてみました。

ちいさい not ちさい

Do you understand the " verb stem + ni ikimasu (kimasu)" construction and what it means?

Do you understand how to form verb stems?

To form verb stems, you essentially just cut the "-masu" off of polite verb forms.

Tabemasu -- tabe
Nomimasu -- nomi
Yomimasu -- yomi
Shimasu -- shi

These grammatically function as nouns. Add "ni ikimasu" and it means "go to do xxx". Add "ni kimasu" and it means "come to do xxx".

So かいにきます is "come to buy" and かいにきました is the past tense of that.

Did you recognize きました as being past tense? I get the feeling there are some verb conjugation basics that were covered in Book 1 which maybe you didn't get. You need to go back and make sure you have a grasp of all the stuff in Book 1 or you're going to get more and more befuddled as things go along.

Read section 4.1 of Tae Kim:
4.1 Polite Form and Verb Stems

Toritoribe · 27 Oct 2016

musicisgood said:
４．これはどこのお金ですか。ちゅうごくｋａｒａのです

５．これはどこのワインですか。フランスからのです

On number 4 and 5,are thoset correct？

Is there any reason you put から before の?

Mike Cash · 27 Oct 2016

You should have repeated the class for Book 1 instead of taking the class for Book 2. This is the largest part of your trouble and why you feel the class is bewilderingly fast. The other students are having an easier time mainly because they learned the material in Book 1 first, not because they're enrolled in the university.

As you get to an intermediate or advanced level, it doesn't matter very much in what order you learn many new things. But due to the very regular and methodical way Japanese builds structures with verbs and adjectives....much like Lego blocks or snapping various handles, adapters, extensions, and sockets together with socket wrenches...it is absolutely essential that one learn well the basics of how to manipulate the basic building blocks. That's the foundation for everything that comes later. And in the later classes they will just assume you already know well the material covered in the earlier classes and spend zero time explaining the stuff you are already supposed to know.

If the class for Book 1 is currently being offered, I would strongly suggest asking your teacher if you can change your class to that one. I have no idea what is in Book 1, but it was enough to make a course text out of it and is stuff that they assume you already know in the class for Book 2. Unless you go back and learn the material in Book 1, you're just going to get more and more lost, more and more confused, and find it harder and harder to follow anything going on in class as the weeks go by. Each new lesson will be using things from earlier lessons, which you will not have learned yet, and the whole thing is going to rapidly snowball into an avalanche of frustration. Japanese isn't a subject where you can jump into it somewhere in the middle and expect to catch up or keep up.

There's no shame in having to repeat a class. Hell, I flunked the first Japanese class I ever took.

musicisgood · 27 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
No, not at all.

I said the underlined parts should be in your answers. They're not in your answers at all.

マリリンさんはジョギングシューズをかいにきました。

マリリンさんはあかいくつをはいてみました。

ちいさい not ちさい

Do you understand the " verb stem + ni ikimasu (kimasu)" construction and what it means?

Do you understand how to form verb stems?

To form verb stems, you essentially just cut the "-masu" off of polite verb forms.

Tabemasu -- tabe
Nomimasu -- nomi
Yomimasu -- yomi
Shimasu -- shi

These grammatically function as nouns. Add "ni ikimasu" and it means "go to do xxx". Add "ni kimasu" and it means "come to do xxx".

So かいにきます is "come to buy" and かいにきました is the past tense of that.

Did you recognize きました as being past tense? I get the feeling there are some verb conjugation basics that were covered in Book 1 which maybe you didn't get. You need to go back and make sure you have a grasp of all the stuff in Book 1 or you're going to get more and more befuddled as things go along.

Read section 4.1 of Tae Kim:
4.1 Polite Form and Verb Stems

OK, I'll try it again. And, book one I'm hitting up also. Did misunderstand a lot of it. Also I'll post what I'm doing in book one.

１．マリリンさんは、なにをかいにきましたか。

ジョギングシューズです
ジョギングシューズにかいました。

２．マリリンさんは、どんないろのくつをはいてみましたか。
あかいのくつみました。

３．まりりんさんは、なぜジョウギングシューズをかいませんでしたか。
ちょうとちいさいでした。

Ｍｉｋｅ，ＩｈｏｐｅｔｈｅａｂｏｖｅｉｓＯＫｎｏｗ．

musicisgood · 27 Oct 2016

Mike Cash said:
You should have repeated the class for Book 1 instead of taking the class for Book 2. This is the largest part of your trouble and why you feel the class is bewilderingly fast. The other students are having an easier time mainly because they learned the material in Book 1 first, not because they're enrolled in the university.

As you get to an intermediate or advanced level, it doesn't matter very much in what order you learn many new things. But due to the very regular and methodical way Japanese builds structures with verbs and adjectives....much like Lego blocks or snapping various handles, adapters, extensions, and sockets together with socket wrenches...it is absolutely essential that one learn well the basics of how to manipulate the basic building blocks. That's the foundation for everything that comes later. And in the later classes they will just assume you already know well the material covered in the earlier classes and spend zero time explaining the stuff you are already supposed to know.

If the class for Book 1 is currently being offered, I would strongly suggest asking your teacher if you can change your class to that one. I have no idea what is in Book 1, but it was enough to make a course text out of it and is stuff that they assume you already know in the class for Book 2. Unless you go back and learn the material in Book 1, you're just going to get more and more lost, more and more confused, and find it harder and harder to follow anything going on in class as the weeks go by. Each new lesson will be using things from earlier lessons, which you will not have learned yet, and the whole thing is going to rapidly snowball into an avalanche of frustration. Japanese isn't a subject where you can jump into it somewhere in the middle and expect to catch up or keep up.

There's no shame in having to repeat a class. Hell, I flunked the first Japanese class I ever took.

ＭｉｋｅＩｔｈｉｎｋＩ'ｍｇｏｉｎｇｔｏｔａｋｅｙｏｕｒａｄｖｉｃｅ． I'll ask this Saturday since I have the book and they'll be on lesson 5 I believe also. In the long run it will do me good. OK, I'll stop this lesson now. I'll focus on book one and post the lessons and ask for some assistance. I have a basic (maybe ) understanding of the first couple of lessons in book one. So I'll start now. Can you have this lesson 5 thread locked please. Thanks.

This weeks new lesson #5

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