The GCL's question thread.

GoldCoinLover · 31 Jan 2006

I've decided to make this thread to ask all my questions instead of making new ones, if anyone has a problem with this, I'll edit it.

First thing, a few days ago, I made this sentence:
かれは何を話ましたか？
What did he talking [about]?
As for him, what did he talk about?

かれは何を言うましたか？
What did he say?
As for him, what did he say?

かれが何を話ましたか？

かれが何を言うましたか？

I replaced it with "to say" instead of "to talk about", and I Think i got it right.

Also, what would happen if I replaced it with "ga"? I'm sorry for asking. I know everyone has tried to help me on this, but it still confuses me. I just want to know what the sentence would look like replaced with "ga".

What is that?
これはPSPです。

What thing is that?
このPSPがです。

I understand that "ga" is for marking the subject, and for "wa" is starting a new topic.

Thank you.

nice gaijin · 31 Jan 2006

you're close, but remember, you have to conjugate the verbs in order to use them like that: such as 話すー＞話しました; so 言うー＞言いました. Check your books and online resources for how to conjugate the different kinds of verbs, this is very important

For the second one you have two sentences, and you made a good effort to try to use both particles, but they say very different things.

The first one is simply identifying what you are pointing at, or perhaps holding in your hand. これはPSPです。"This is a PSP"

In the second sentence, you are being specific to that particular PSP, but in order to use このPSPが...です, you need something in there. This sentence is meant to describe the PSP, rather than identify it simply as a PSP. So an adjective or something is needed before desu. このPSPが(black, white, broken, new, old, John's)です. You're describing that particular PSP

Also, the particle "ga" also identifies new subjects, and is usually used in response to a question that specifically calls for a new subject such as "which PSP is broken?" or "which psp is white?" by using "ga," you are emphasizing this subject. So

if someone asks
どのPSPが白いですか。 WHICH psp is white?

you'd respond
このPSPが白いです。THIS psp is white

GoldCoinLover · 31 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
you're close, but remember, you have to conjugate the verbs in order to use them like that: such as 話すー＞話しました; so 言うー＞言いました. Check your books and online resources for how to conjugate the different kinds of verbs, this is very important

For the second one you have two sentences, and you made a good effort to try to use both particles, but they say very different things.

The first one is simply identifying what you are pointing at, or perhaps holding in your hand. これはPSPです。"This is a PSP"

In the second sentence, you are being specific to that particular PSP, but in order to use このPSPが...です, you need something in there. This sentence is meant to describe the PSP, rather than identify it simply as a PSP. So an adjective or something is needed before desu. このPSPが(black, white, broken, new, old, John's)です. You're describing that particular PSP

Also, the particle "ga" also identifies new subjects, and is usually used in response to a question that specifically calls for a new subject such as "which PSP is broken?" or "which psp is white?" by using "ga," you are emphasizing this subject. So

if someone asks
どのPSPが白いですか。 WHICH psp is white?

you'd respond
このPSPが白いです。THIS psp is white

Oh, is hanashi a different from from ie, or to say?

So one is a yodan and the other an ichidan right, and both are conjugated differently? I heard about both.

One of them you drop the "i" and add imasu, the other you drop the "ru"

KrazyKat · 31 Jan 2006

ｈａｎａｓｕ－ｓｐｅａｋ．
ｉｕ－ｓａｙ
Ｂｏｔｈａｒｅｇｏｄａｎ．Ｉｄｏｎ'ｔｋｎｏｗｈｏｗｙｏｕｔｈｏｕｇｈｔｅｉｔｈｅｒｃｏｕｌｄｄｒｏｐａ 'ｒｕ'？

its u to i and add masu. If you don't know this you really need to go back and look at how to make it again.

McCrutch67 · 31 Jan 2006

彼はあやしいです。

I don't know if you really study it or hear it once and think you'll remember it. I tend not to study things if I know that I know it. That can get me into bad habits when I'm not actually in a class and not seeing this stuff all the time. The difference is that I don't pretend I know what I'm talking about. . . .

Learn the kana. You say you know them and then continually make mistakes with the readings. Practice conjugating verbs. Find a list and write some conjugations down over and over. Check and make sure it's correct. Cement in your mind how wrong 言うます or 話ます looks. Please. At least if you're going to post something, check it first. You have resources and even if the only practice you get is posting on jref, its better to get it right.

Elizabeth · 31 Jan 2006

I completely agree with the previous posters that getting the fundamentals consistently right (kana, conjugations, etc) are the building blocks of the language that effect how much people here are going to continue helping you and how well you're going to be able to make yourself understood in the first place.

But just for the record and the benefit of anyone who may be in a position to get something more out of it....like I posted in another thread I don't know where this came from but を does not indicate "about" in standard speech (なにを話している is common among young people and therefore passable,
何を話しましたか is not as familiar to me.)

何について話しましたか？何のことを話しましたか？ are constructions that should be remembered first to get across your intended meaning of what was he talking about.

彼は何を言いましたか？is fine for "What did he say?" but can also be interpreted as a summary of what the subject said rather than as asking for their exact words.

Damicci · 31 Jan 2006

So who wants the job of merging GCL's threads into one. Glad I am not a moderator.

nice gaijin · 31 Jan 2006

I think that it might be a good idea to merge his previous threads into a separate thread if necessary, but bunching them into this thread as well might bury it in old material. Let's reserve this thread for all future inquiries. I expect GCL to limit his language questions to this thread from now own.

GoldCoinLover · 31 Jan 2006

McCrutch67 said:
彼はあやしいです。
I don't know if you really study it or hear it once and think you'll remember it. I tend not to study things if I know that I know it. That can get me into bad habits when I'm not actually in a class and not seeing this stuff all the time. The difference is that I don't pretend I know what I'm talking about. . . .
Learn the kana. You say you know them and then continually make mistakes with the readings. Practice conjugating verbs. Find a list and write some conjugations down over and over. Check and make sure it's correct. Cement in your mind how wrong 言うます or 話ます looks. Please. At least if you're going to post something, check it first. You have resources and even if the only practice you get is posting on jref, its better to get it right.

I'm not sure what 'dubious' means, but you said:
彼はあやしいです
He is suspicious/doubtful/dubious.
Look man. I realize I shouldn't get angry, and be assertive, but you are seriously pissing me off. **** you. Seriously, **** you.
I'm sick if bullshit like this. Give me a goddamn list of things to conjugate. Give me a word, and I'll ******* conjugate it to prove it to you. I should check it first. Yes, I do remember most things, but I study also.
Tell me how to make flash cards, etc, and I ******* will.
As for the kana mistakes, its a GODDAMN typo. Got it?
Good.
Go ahead and ban me, I mean, what do I got to lose? Maybe it'll be better for me.

I can normally handle this, but when I have to explain the same thing, OVER AND OVER, it gets VERY annoying.

kumo · 31 Jan 2006

Ok then GCL, conjugate these verbs in the negative and past tenses and give their ~te form:
浴びる
引っ越す
察する
用いる
切る
集う
欠ける

nice gaijin · 31 Jan 2006

GCL, I recommend you calm down and ease off the swears. McCrutch wasn't being completely helpful in his post, but that's no reason for you to get riled up or frustrated. Getting set off over one comment is not worth it, and a sign that you are stressed out; you have a lot on your plate right now, try to concentrate on one thing at a time.

flash cards are great for memorizing kanji and kana; just write the kana on the front and the pronunciation on the back. Once you have mastered hiragana and katakana, and can smoothly read any word in those scripts, move on to kanji (kanji on the front, hiragana pronunciation on the back). once you've gotten the kana down, you should avoid writing things in romaji and practice just using kana. Go make these flashcards and study them for a couple days or even a week; then start on grammar again. This will also give you a chance to calm down and collect your thoughts.

Damicci · 31 Jan 2006

I am sure many people have given you sites to visit so I will list a few.
These are good flashcard sites so you don't have to make them.
Genki Flash Cards
kanjirenshuu.org (漢字練習) - Duke University

Java Kanji Flashcards 500

Java flashcard applet to study Japanese Kanji

nuthatch.com

Kana Flashcards

GoldCoinLover · 31 Jan 2006

kumo said:
Ok then GCL, conjugate these verbs in the negative and past tenses and give their ~te form:
浴びる
引っ越す
察する
用いる
切る
集う
欠ける

浴びるAbiru abimasen (negative present), ambimasen deshita (past negat0ve) , abite
引っ越すhikkosu (to move)hikkoshi + -masu / -masen / -mashita / -masendeshita
察する sassuru sassuimasu, sassuimasen, sassuimashita, sassuimasen deshita
The rest are the same. Except the "U' Is dropped to "i". Except for "to cut" it is actually acts as the other type of verb.
Will you please stop bugging me Kumo?

GoldCoinLover · 31 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
GCL, I recommend you calm down and ease off the swears. McCrutch wasn't being completely helpful in his post, but that's no reason for you to get riled up or frustrated. Getting set off over one comment is not worth it, and a sign that you are stressed out; you have a lot on your plate right now, try to concentrate on one thing at a time.

flash cards are great for memorizing kanji and kana; just write the kana on the front and the pronunciation on the back. Once you have mastered hiragana and katakana, and can smoothly read any word in those scripts, move on to kanji (kanji on the front, hiragana pronunciation on the back). once you've gotten the kana down, you should avoid writing things in romaji and practice just using kana. Go make these flashcards and study them for a couple days or even a week; then start on grammar again. This will also give you a chance to calm down and collect your thoughts.

Yes, but I'd also have to know how to use the different 2 types of kanji types (on and kun)

nhk9 · 31 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
浴びるAbiru abimasen (negative present), ambimasen deshita (past negat0ve) , abite
引っ越すhikkosu (to move)hikkoshi + -masu / -masen / -mashita / -masendeshita
察する sassuru sassuimasu, sassuimasen, sassuimashita, sassuimasen deshita
The rest are the same. Except the "U' Is dropped to "i". Except for "to cut" it is actually acts as the other type of verb.
Will you please stop bugging me Kumo?

Close, but 察する is サ行変格活用 doushi, according to koujien. so conjugation in past tense would be sasshita, (negative) sasshinakatta
You are trying to learn so much in such a short time. unless you are a genius otherwise i wouldn't recommend it. you are putting stress on yourself and it is showing. it doesn't really matter if you perfect it in one year or two year, at the end you would still be able to speak it. the only thing that you could get from cramming in one year is bragging rights, and the ability to tell others that "japanese is easy". but then you would still only be getting a superficial knowledge of the language if you don't delve into japanese literature and different types of publication written in japanese. (by just cramming grammar)
it is a good move that you chose to summarize your questions in one thread. at one time we had like 10 of your questions in the first page. i didn't know which ones i should answer

nice gaijin · 31 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Will you please stop bugging me Kumo?

GCL, kumo wasn't doing that to bug you, he was doing what you asked us to do; to give you some specific things to work on. You wanted a list of things to look at and he gave them to you; don't bite the hand that feeds you.

check out the links that dutch provided, they should prove very helpful.

Damicci · 31 Jan 2006

nice gaijin said:
GCL, kumo wasn't doing that to bug you, he was doing what you asked us to do; to give you some specific things to work on. You wanted a list of things to look at and he gave them to you; don't bite the hand that feeds you.
check out the links that dutch provided, they should prove very helpful.

☝ Must be the Japanese GF avatar.
I think the problem is GCL wants someone here to teach him japanese. That's not going to happen. SO continue studying but don't expect people to always GIVE you the answer. your doing good so far so just keep your cool. Hell You may want to take a break from studying for a few days. I wish I could.

RockLee · 31 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
I can normally handle this, but when I have tro explain the same thing, OVER AND OVER, it gets VERY annoying.

You do realize that this is exactly what we've been telling you the past few weeks...

bentenmusume · 31 Jan 2006

Damicci said:
I think the problem is GCL wants someone here to teach him japanese. That's not going to happen.

I'm going to quote Damicci here because he speaks the absolute truth.

In fact, I'll go one step further.

Kevin, no one can teach you Japanese, at least not in the way you seem to think they can. Even if you take a class, find a tutor, go to Japan and make Japanese-speaking friends-- none of these things will guarantee that you will ever achieve proficiency in the language. Regardless of how you choose to study, whether or not you ever truly learn Japanese (assuming that you don't give it up) is going to depend on one thing and one thing alone, and that's how well you use your mind.

I would encourage you to be less dependent on this forum and people here -- not for their good, but for your own. You could ask a million questions here and have each and every one explained in painstaking detail, and still none of this will help you if you are lacking focus and the right mindset for learning. You have to learn to enjoy tackling difficult and challenging concepts for yourself, instead of depending on others for help each and every step of the way.

I really don't know how else to say this, but I would encourage you to re-read this post by epigene again. It's probably the best advice anyone's ever going to give you.

I think this is going to be my last comment on this whole situation for a while.

The GCL's question thread.

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