The former Dutch East Indies

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello to all,

I have completed my website. On page 83 you will read about my 14 days visit to Japan. Page 84 is my last page.
Please forgive me all the mistakes I have made in the English language!

www.dutch-east-indies.com

 

[KirinMan]

Hello to all,
I have completed my website. On page 83 you will read about my 14 days visit to Japan. Page 84 is my last page.
Please forgive me all the mistakes I have made in the English language!
www.dutch-east-indies.com

Congratulations, I am looking forward to reading through your story. Thanks for sharing it here with everyone.

I would like to add that I read through the sections up to and after your going to Sri Lanka after WWII and I was so saddened when reading the experiences you had in the prison in Indonesia and the conditions you lived in. It sounds like you had a happy childhood and I am sorry for your lose in not being able to grow up with your father. Also the thought that your father was probably/maybe tortured as well. At least you have a happy memory of him from your last day. I was touched deeply by what you experienced.

I worry about the impression that some people that post here are going to get from reading your "life" history. It was truly a different time and one that for myself at least I can not imagine having to live through.

I am also amazed at your lack of animosity towards both the Indonesian people and Japanese as well.

You have a forgiving heart, and I hope that I can have the same tenderness and love that you have. If you believe in God, I would like to say may God Bless you for sharing these experiences with all of us here and those that are fortunate enough to read and share in your life.

Thank you.

 

[Sukotto]

I read your section on visiting Japan so far.
Nagasaki...sigh. A lovely town.
My first real experience in Japan as well,
and outside the US.
The downtown in the background right of the pic?
Reminds me of my host family's street. But all streets are narrow,
and "Japanese" compared to those in the States.

Looking forward to reading your history from Indonesia.

(Sumimasen, might your map be off a bit?
Portuguese Timor and wasn't the island of New Guinea also
English and Germany colonies besides one of the Dutch possessions?
i have bit of sensativity toward East Timor. Sumimasen.)

 

[leonmarino]

Mighty impressive to say the very least.. I have no other words for it.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Obeika,
Thank you for your beautiful and warm words!!!
I don't forgive the Japanese Kempeitai who killed my father. But I never had and have any hard feeling against the Japanese people in general.
As for the Indonesians, I love them. They are a wonderful people.
Thank you for your understanding!!!

leonmarino,

You too, thanks a lot for your very kind words!!

 

[diceke]

I understand that personal experiences of an individual are different from the actions of a country, but it makes me wonder how the Dutch are taught in school about the former Dutch colonies. The bloodshed of the war of independence and the transfer of sovereignty were costly. The war allegedly caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. Upon independence, the Netherlands demanded Indonesia a large sum of ﾂ≫? 6.1 billion, of which Indonesia agreed to pay ﾂ≫? 4.3 billion. (That's greedy, if you ask me.)

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello Diceke,

Thank you for your questions.
I start off with the education the Dutch schools given today about the ex-colony. They Dutch children learn that the Dutch who lived in the former D.E.I were exploiters of the poor Indonesian people. The so called bad guys! That our fathers worked for Dutch firms which became very rich from the colony is not mentioned.
Neither is mentioned that the Dutch government in Holland and the royal family became very rich as well through Indonesia.

I don't know exactly how much money Indonesia paid Holland. But I do know that president Sukarno nationalised all the money and other properties from the Dutch who had worked and lived in Indonesia, sometimes generations long.
A part of that money (money from our parents) went to the Dutch government. My mother has never seen any of my father's savings. That money from the Dutch and other Europeans is used for rebuilding the Netherlands after WWII that was damaged by the Germans.

The independence war was a very black page in the Dutch history!
Bloodshed came from both sides. Not the official Indonesian Army killed many Dutch, but the young men/boys killed thousands of Dutch civilians of whom most were still in the Japanese camps.
It was president Yudoyono from Indonesia who told the Dutch minister B.Bot that there have been guilt during the idependence from Indonesia on both sides. No need to start to apologize. Indonesia and The Netherlands are friends again, even better than before.

Thank you for your questions.

Believe me, I wish that the Dutch had had never sent troops to Indonesia.
It was a big mistake, especially in the eyes from the Dutch who had lived in Indonesia.
Did you read on my website that I visited Sukarno's tomb in Blitar? Page 74.

Real history you learn from people who were there. That is why the stories from ordinary people are often more honest than from our governments.

 

[caster51]

Indonesia and Imperial Japan

Asian History: Indonesian / Malay Perspective on Japan



as for the Netherlands, it is very shame to have demanded money contingent on therir independence.
Sukarno signed 17805 at independence day , that is kouki ,17th Aug 2605.
2605 was Japanese year that he showed his gratitude.
DId japan lose a war?
http://iimovie.com/syuusenn.html
1992,the mayer of Amsterdam said like that
We won the war.
but we lost our colony.
who won the war?
---------------------------------------
窶愿ｺ

窶怒ﾂ渉昶?｢aﾅ坦ﾂ人窶ｰﾃｯ窶佚｣窶｢\窶冂窶堋ｪﾂ静ｭﾅｽﾅｾ窶堙坂?廨ﾂ坂?倪?堙??堋?窶堙≫?堋ｽﾆ棚ﾆ停?ｰﾆ停?愴胆窶堙ｰ窶適窶禿｢窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ催崢、窶慊ｯﾂ坂?倪?堙個渉昶?｢aﾅ坦ﾂ人窶佚｣窶｢\窶堙??ｹﾂ､窶堙俄?｢ﾂｷ窶堋｢窶堋ｽﾆ但ﾆ停ぎﾆ湛ﾆ弾ﾆ停?ｹﾆ胆ﾆ停ぎﾅｽs窶卍ｷ窶堙戸?･ﾅｽA窶堋ｪﾂ、ﾋ?遺?ｰﾂｺ窶堙娯?堙?窶堙娯?堙??堋?窶堙ｩﾂ。
ﾂ「窶ｹM窶｢ﾃｻ窶堋ｪ窶堋ｽ窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙債、ﾂ静ｦ窶堙娯?佚･ﾂ静ｭ窶堙??｢窶ｰ窶堋ｯ窶堙?、ﾂ焦ｸ窶堙≫?堋ｽﾅｽ窶樞?堙??堙?ﾆ棚ﾆ停?ｰﾆ停?愴胆窶堙債焦ｸ窶堙≫?堙??佚･窶捏窶堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ債｡ﾂ、窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙債青｢ﾅ?Eﾋ?ｪﾂ、窶愿ｱﾋ?岩?堙ｰ窶侏??堋､ﾅ弛ﾂ催鞘?佚･ﾂ坂?倪?堙俄?堙遺?堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾅｽ窶樞?堋ｽ窶堋ｿﾆ棚ﾆ停?ｰﾆ停?愴胆窶堙坂?堋ｻ窶堙固?ﾃ披?ｹﾃｼﾂ辱窶堙戸廣窶伉ｱ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。窶伉ｦ窶堋ｿﾂ焦ｸ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堙坂?堋ｸ窶堙遺?堙娯?堙可、ﾂ青｢ﾅ?Eﾋ?ｪ窶堙娯?｢n窶迭ﾂ坂?倪?堙俄?堙遺?堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ静ｭ窶楼窶堙哉但ﾆ淡ﾆ但窶堙俄?怒ﾂ坂?倪?堙固ｽOﾂ十ﾋ彁窶掉窶堙?窶堙娯?佚･窶堋ｫ窶堙按植窶督ｯ窶冢ﾆ辰ﾆ停?愴檀ﾆ値ﾆ歎ﾆ但窶堋ｪ窶堋?窶堙ｨﾂ、ﾂ静寂?禿ｻ窶懌┐窶堙固ｽ窶佛陳ｹﾅｽY窶｢ﾂｨ窶堙??怒ﾂ坂?倪?堙坂?ｰh窶禿ｴ窶ｰh窶ｰﾃ倪?堙ｰ窶ｹﾃ俄?堙溪?堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。
ﾂ ﾂ債｡窶堙姑棚ﾆ停?ｰﾆ停?愴胆窶堙坂?愿ｺ窶怒窶堙娯?ｹﾃ｣ﾂ州窶堙??慊ｯ窶堋ｶﾂ広窶堋ｳ窶堙娯?怒ﾂ坂?伉湘､窶堙??堙遺?堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ｽ窶｢ﾃｻ窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙哉但ﾆ淡ﾆ但ﾅ?e窶冢窶堙?侵窶板ｪﾂ静ｭ窶侏??堙ｰ窶ｹN窶堋ｱ窶堋ｵ窶堙?申窶堋ｵ窶禿ｳ窶堙遺?堋｢ﾂ、ﾂ鞘?昶?督ｯ窶伉ｰ窶堙俄?佚･窶｢ﾃ鞘?禿?ﾋ彷窶堙ｰ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｯ窶堋ｽ窶堙?ｽﾂｩ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堙ｰ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｰ窶堋ｷ窶堙敖、ﾆ馳ﾆ坦ﾆ馳ﾆ坦ﾅｽﾃ督催溪?堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙懌?堋ｷ窶堋ｪﾂ、窶堋ｱ窶堙ｪ窶堙最?ﾃ藩?｡窶堋｢窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。
ﾂ 窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ｽ窶｢ﾃｻ窶堋ｱ窶堋ｻﾅｽﾂｩ窶堙ｧ窶堙固椎停?堙ｰ窶板ｬ窶堋ｵ窶堙??愬塚?ｸ窶督ｯ窶伉ｰ窶堙ｰ窶ｰﾃｰ窶｢ﾃｺ窶堋ｵﾂ、窶ｹ~窶堋｢ﾂ出窶堋ｷﾂ、ﾂ人窶氾楪催?坂?壺?堙娯?氾??堋｢窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙ｰ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堙娯?堙??堋ｷﾂ。窶ｰﾂｽﾅ津娯?堙遺?堙ｧ窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ｽ窶堙個坂?倪?堙個人ﾂ々窶堙債、窶ｰﾃ溪?ｹﾅｽ窶堙娯?氾ｰﾅｽj窶堙個真ﾅｽﾃ?窶堙ｰ窶禿壺?ｰB窶堋ｵ窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙?、ﾂ債｡ﾅｽﾅｸ窶佚･ﾂ静ｭ窶堙娯?禿堋静ｦ窶堙娯?堋ｱ窶堙??堙娯?堙敘ｽﾃｦ窶堙ｨﾂ湘｣窶堋ｰﾂ、ﾋ?ｽ窶堋｢窶堙債静ｴ窶拆窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙?、ﾋ?ｫ窶堋｢窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙ｰ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堙?、ﾅｽﾂｩ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堙??ｫﾅｽﾃ停?堙俄?堙遺?堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堋ｪﾂ、窶堋ｱ窶堋ｱ窶堙??氾ｰﾅｽj窶堙ｰ窶堙凪?堙ｨ窶｢ﾃ披?堙≫?堙?、ﾂ真窶佛?窶堙ｰﾅ陳ｩ窶堙や?堙溪?堙ｩ窶｢K窶牌窶堋ｪ窶堋?窶堙ｩ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙･窶堋､ﾂ。
ﾂ 窶怒窶懌?凪?堙最ｽ窶樞?ｹﾂ､窶昶?卍人窶堋ｪﾋ?ｫ窶堋｢窶堙娯?堙??堋ｷﾂ。窶｢S窶扼窶堙?ﾅｽO窶｢S窶扼窶堙?窶楼窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶ｹﾂ｣窶堙≫?堙??｢ﾂ絶?氾坂?堙??愬塚?ｸ窶督ｯ窶伉ｰ窶堙ｰﾂ青ｪ窶｢ﾅｾ窶堋ｵﾂ、ﾅｽﾂｩ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堙娯?氾娯?忱窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙?青ｨ窶氾坂?ｰﾂｺ窶堙俄?堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ植窶督ｯ窶冢窶堙｢窶伉ｮ窶氾娯?堙俄?堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙??卍ｷ窶堋｢ﾅ?ﾃ披?忝窶氾ｪ窶廬窶堙可坂?愬ｽg窶堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙??堋｢窶堋ｽ窶愬塚?ｸﾂ鞘?昶?督ｯ窶伉ｰ窶堙ｰ窶ｰﾃｰ窶｢ﾃｺ窶堋ｵﾂ、窶ｹﾂ､窶堙俄?敕俄?ｰh窶堋ｵ窶堙ｦ窶堋､窶堙?、窶ｰ窶懌?佚･ﾂ絶?卍坂?壺?堙遺?板昶??窶堙ｰ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｩ窶堋ｰ窶堙?、窶佚･窶愬塚?ｸ窶ｹﾂ､窶ｰhﾅ停?披?堙??堋｢窶堋､ﾅ?ﾃｸﾋ?ｳ窶堙??板ｧ窶堋ｿﾂ湘｣窶堋ｪ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堙娯?堋ｪﾂ、窶ｹMﾂ坂?倪?愿ｺ窶怒窶堋ｾ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堙坂?堋ｸ窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙･窶堋､ﾂ。
ﾂ 窶怒窶懌?凪?堙架?ｫ窶堋｢窶堙娯?堙債侵窶板ｪ窶堋ｵ窶堙?陳?窶氾坂?堙ｰﾂ振窶堙≫?堙??堋｢窶堋ｽﾂ青ｼ窶ｰﾂ｢ﾂ人窶堙娯?｢ﾃｻ窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙坂?捏ﾂ静ｭ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｽ窶堋ｪﾂ、窶堋ｻ窶堙娯?愬塚?ｸ窶堙娯?ｰﾃｰ窶｢ﾃｺ窶堙最ｽﾃ?ﾅ陳ｻ窶堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。窶伉ｦ窶堋ｿ窶愿ｺ窶怒ﾅ坦窶堙債静ｭﾂ焦ｸﾂ坂?倪?堙娯?牢窶堙??堙ｰ窶愬塚?ｸ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶凖??｢ﾃｺ窶堋ｵ窶堙?終窶堙ｭ窶堙ｨ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。窶堋ｻ窶堙固停?ｹ窶ｰﾃ竿但ﾆ淡ﾆ但ﾂ鞘?昶?督ｯ窶伉ｰ窶堙最?eﾂ々窶愿??板ｧ窶堙ｰ窶傳ﾂ青ｬ窶堋ｵ窶堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。窶愿ｺ窶怒窶堙固津ｷﾂ静鯛?堙才?娯?佚･窶堙??堋ｷﾂ。ﾅ椎停?堙ｰ窶板ｬ窶堋ｵ窶堙??慊ｬ窶堙≫?堋ｽ窶堋?窶堙遺?堋ｽ窶｢ﾃｻ窶堋ｱ窶堋ｻﾂ催?坂?壺?堙固津ｷﾋ廱ﾅｽﾃ停?堙??堋ｷﾂ。ﾅｽﾂｩ窶｢ﾂｪ窶堙ｰ窶堋ｳ窶堋ｰ窶堋ｷ窶堙樞?堙娯?堙ｰﾅｽ~窶堙溪?堙?、窶慊ｰﾂ々窶堙??ｹﾂｹ窶堙ｰ窶卍｣窶堙≫?堙?、窶堋ｻ窶堙固津問?堙ｨ窶堙ｰﾅｽﾃｦ窶堙ｨ窶禿溪?堋ｷ窶堙冷?堋ｫ窶堙??堋ｷ

the funniest thing is...
someone is still dreaming under colonialism

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello caster51,

Why do you think that the Japanese Army went to Indonesia for?
That's right...for the oil!
The independence story came later when Japan began to lose the war.

I read many of the threads, and I guess that you try to offend as many non Japanese as you can. Strange hobby.

Ah well, I have a strange hobby too. I look for peace in this world of WAR!

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I read many of the threads, and I guess that you try to offend as many non Japanese as you can. Strange hobby.

I don't think his objective is to offend rather than inform.

The problem is, the information he has is radically revisionist. And so, he tends to offend people and get into some really tough scrapes with some of the other forumgoers.

 

[caster51]

I read many of the threads, and I guess that you try to offend as many non Japanese as you can. Strange hobby.
Ah well, I have a strange hobby too. I look for peace in this world of WAR!

I never offend personaly maybe..
I just show the doccuments , video and some histrical speech.
then I do Rebuttal...
I dont want to like as you said " personal Abuse"
you felt a pain? beacese it is just opposite opinion.

The problem is, the information he has is radically revisionist. And so, he tends to offend people and get into some really tough scrapes with some of the other forumgoers.

this topic is about me?
I am not a revisionist at all.
Fact is a Fact. that is my motto..
if someone want to object it about histrical matter , it should offer the doccument.

 

[caster51]

to Elizabeth van Kampen san
I know your feeling that you live in Indnasia at that time.
I think it was a good memory.
I feel sorry that your father killed was by kenpeitai.
please consider . it was under rule of dutch.
then you were happy and had a good memory.
I hope you an objective consideration.

It is like ...
most japanese that lived in Taiwan, and .. at that time cant tell it like you

 

[KirinMan]

I am not a revisionist at all.
if someone want to object it about histrical matter , it should offer the doccument

However Caster I think that part of the reason that many many find your posts "revisionist" is that the information that you share with everyone here is not or are not accepted by most people outside of Japan.

Plus as you know as well history is not only remembered by what is recorded on paper. If you only accept recorded documentation as evidence of past history then I am afraid that, in my opinion, you have a very narrow view of world history and will never accept what the overwhelming majority of the world recognizes and accepts as fact.

Fact is a Fact.

All depends who is reading or anaylzing the "facts". To be objective, honestly objective it is necessary to look at any issue from both sides, otherwise you are only getting half the story, and for me at least that is unacceptable.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello caster51,

Thanks to my father I grew up in one of the most beautiful countries in the world. And yes it was a Dutch colony before the war, and yes it made Holland a very rich country. As from 1925 Holland sent more better educated Dutch people to their colony and many more Dutch women. At the same time quite some Indonesians went to Holland to the Dutch universities.
There were only 120 000 Europeans ( not only Dutch) living in the colony, but there were thousands more Eurasians living on the islands, especially in Java. That was the basic group of our lives in the former Dutch East Indies.
The Dutch often went back to Holland when their pension started.
There were far more Japanese and Chinese people living in the former Dutch colony than Dutch people.

Not every Dutchmen loved the former Dutch East Indies caster51, some even hated the colony. My parents liked the country and the people, especially my father. But I have loved this country with all my heart. I could have stayed there all my life if Sukarno had given me that chance.
On the whole, believe it or not, the Indonesians and Dutch got on very well as individuals. My father was loved and respected by the Indonesians, and so were many other Dutch people in those days.

What Holland did after WWII in Indonesia, was/is also wrong in my eyes.
I don't believe in war, one must be able to talk things out. Holland made a very big mistake in those days. Maybe not Sukarno, but quite some other Indonesians were absolutely willing to talk with the Dutch government.

You can see my website as a small piece of history, because I belong to the last European generation of those who grew up in fascinating Asia before World War Two.
Also today I am very interested in Indonesia. I read The Jakarta Post daily, I pay the school for 12 children in Indonesia, form Java, Sumatra and Kalimantan and correspond with those lovely children. I have many CD's with Indonesian music. I am more than interested in everything about Indonesia of today. My love for Indonesia and the Indonesians didn't end when Holland lost their colony.

 

[caster51]

All depends who is reading or anaylzing the "facts". To be objective, honestly objective it is necessary to look at any issue from both sides, otherwise you are only getting half the story, and for me at least that is unacceptable

Of couese, it is
Datch is nothing to do with japan that they do about their introspection to Indonesia.
japan do japanese way.
I only hate a thief shouts and comlpain the other thief a thief
TO Elizabeth van Kampen
well said

 

[KirinMan]

japan do japanese way.

I have serious reservations about this statement. If it were actually a "fact" as you often like to point out, I highly doubt that Japan would be the country that it is today.

Instead of writing a new post in another reply to Caster, the following is a reply to the post below me here;

at first, you dont understand reality and sinocentlism.

Caster once again I know what these mean very well, I've pointed that out to you before.

on the other hand, some country is still killing and invading like tibet, taiwan....
they are still making A- bomd and exporting the weapons.

Caster this is way off topic here I hope you know. I am fairly certain that Elizabeth started this thread with the intention of sharing with the world her life experiences and it isn't a thread about the politics of the world today either, but rather in the interests of peace and rememberance of an era that changed the world.

 

[caster51]

at first, you dont understand reality things and sinocentlism.
what is Japan doing now.?
I think Japan is contributing econmicaly, politicaly for peace.
on the other hand, some country is still killing and invading like tibet, taiwan....
they are still making A- bomd and exporting the weapons and comfort women.

reality thing is like this

The Making of Modern Asia
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,501050815-1090825,00.html
With reporting by Kishore Mahbubani is dean of the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy at the National University of Singapore, and author of Beyond the Age of Innocence:

it is too old.
Power of the Yen Winning Asia New 'Co-Prosperity' Is Displacing U.S.

 

[diceke]

Plus as you know as well history is not only remembered by what is recorded on paper. If you only accept recorded documentation as evidence of past history then I am afraid that, in my opinion, you have a very narrow view of world history and will never accept what the overwhelming majority of the world recognizes and accepts as fact.

History and remembrance of the past are two different things. History should be strictly based on evidence, has nothing to do with majority views. Memory is what people remember to have happened in the past, true or not. I know some people deliberately confuse the two.

To be objective, honestly objective it is necessary to look at any issue from both sides, otherwise you are only getting half the story, and for me at least that is unacceptable.

So why do you keep insisting that others follow your version of story? Try to look at the issue from both sides, otherwise you are only getting half the story.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Yes that is true Obeika, I started my website to tell the world how a war can destroy a normal happy family life.
I would love to read the memories of a Japanese woman of my age, how she felt during WWII. She was then 18 years old when the war was over.
She too might have lost her father and her uncle during that war or a brothers.
My grandparents in Holland lost their two sons, through the Kempeitai.