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Terrorist boat - Andy Gil - sunk

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Hey Astroboy: I checked out the IRC website. Pretty interesting videos. Although I couldn't find the boat ramming... I did see some other videos. Its propaganda... all of it.

For example: one video claims that the Sea Shepherds where using an illegal weapon. I watched the video. It was a green light... I highly doubt the green light is an illegal weapon. Now it may be PART of an illegal weapon... but the green light itself is harmless. Well... as harmless as a light could be. My guess is its part of a targeting system. I agree Sea Shepherds shouldn't be using it... but the green light is not a weapon. The videos make it seem like the green light is something very very bad... because it doesn't explain anything and just hopes whoever is watching the video can't tell the difference between a light and a weapon.

Oh and btw: green light is the most harmless color of light based on the uv spectrum. The most dangerous colors of visible light are orange, yellow, purple and blue. (those are the closest to the end of the spectrum). Of course if the light really was a weapon then it would be invisible to your eyes and you wouldn't even know of it till it was too late... just saying.
 
Astroboy... there was another video I noticed in the IRC website that screamed propaganda. It was one of the videos videotaping the Sea Shepherds throwing glass bottles on board.

All of the sudden you heard a loud "clanking" noise and the camera fell to the ground. The video screams "someone was hit" even though it doesn't prove anything. For starters four
scenarios could have happened to knock the camera down.... (I've listed them from least likely to most likely

1) The glass bottle hit the steel mast, bouncing into the camera. This is the least likely scenario because glass tends to shatter when it hits another solid object. there was no glass captured anywhere near the camera in the video.

2) The Japanese just up a random camera on a tripod in an attempt to mock a person getting hit. This is also unlikely because based on the camera footage there was a camera operator

3) it was staged

4) a glass bottle hit near the camera operator, startling him and causing the camera to drop, but the operator wasn't actually hit.
 
These whalers calling themselves the "Institute for Cetacean Research" is about the equivalent of McDonalds calling themselves the "Institute for Bovine Research."

well... its kind of reassuring that american cooperations aren't the only ones that bend laws to fit their own agenda.... although its also kind of depressing too :(

The true culprit (in my opinion) is corperate greed. Of course thats a problem everywhere :p
 
For example: one video claims that the Sea Shepherds where using an illegal weapon. I watched the video. It was a green light... I highly doubt the green light is an illegal weapon. Now it may be PART of an illegal weapon... but the green light itself is harmless. Well... as harmless as a light could be. My guess is its part of a targeting system. I agree Sea Shepherds shouldn't be using it... but the green light is not a weapon. The videos make it seem like the green light is something very very bad... because it doesn't explain anything and just hopes whoever is watching the video can't tell the difference between a light and a weapon.

Oh and btw: green light is the most harmless color of light based on the uv spectrum. The most dangerous colors of visible light are orange, yellow, purple and blue. (those are the closest to the end of the spectrum). Of course if the light really was a weapon then it would be invisible to your eyes and you wouldn't even know of it till it was too late... just saying.
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I never said light couldn't cause damage.
I just its not an illegal weapon.
Also: just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it can't be used in illegal ways.
Its just the videos make the light seem alot worse then it actually is.
 
ANDY Gil? Ha, ha, ha...

This thread makes me laugh for two reasons.

1. Are you talking about someone named Andy Gil or the ship Ady Gil? Honestly, if you're going to start a thread on anti-whaling fleets at least get the topic of the discussion right. IT'S ADY GIL.

2. I have read these replies about who did what and which videos are more real and unbiased, and I can clearly see that most of you have no idea about a single thing when it comes to captaining a fishing boat, big or small. The majority of us in the fishing community laugh at most of these videos anyway.

As a Japanese woman who's captained several fishing boats off the coast of Japan, Canada and the US in the past 20 years, I can say with certainty that the skipper of ADY Gil, not ANDY Gil, a 24 m $2.5 million wave-piercing trimaran, would not deliberately collide with Shōnan Maru 2 unless everyone on the customized trimaran had agreed to be a Kamikaze (which I doubt, as the Animal Planet camera crew would probably have made a big promotional event about it :eek: oh the media play...) Not only that, but the angle of the stern was all wrong. But I'll spare you the details.

Edit: SS is also very inappropriate. Genocide and anti-whaling is very different. Unless you're going to go off on a tangent and start saying the Nazis and the Sea Shepherds are one in the same. I won't even bother if you're going to be that ridiculous.

Also, as some of you kids are prone to taking statements out of context (you know who you are) I will make my position clear.

I am a captain of a fishing boat, but I dislike some of the hunting methods of the whaling fleet as much as I dislike the hunting methods of whitecoats (baby seals) in Canada and the treatment of cows and pigs in some of the slaughterhouses in the US.

I also dislike how the captains of the whaling ships plaster on the white words "SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH" on the hull and deck of the ship. As a Japanese woman and a fisherman I find that very cowardly. I believe that if you're going to be a real fisherman you shouldn't hide behind a provision when everyone knows most of the meat is going to restaurants and the open market. Be proud of what you're doing, don't hide behind two English words, be a real man (or woman in my case) and stop mocking the ideals and pride of past Japanese fishermen. If you can't find any other way to fish for whales then fish something else. I've been a captain for 20 years. There are plenty of other fish in the sea, so to speak.

FYI, I have eaten some whale meat as a child. Hated it. I guess I just don't get the taste.

Now, if you don't mind, I have to fly to the US and go help my brothers in the Gulf and save the endangered turtles in the BP oil spill.
 
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I am a captain of a fishing boat, but I dislike some of the hunting methods of the whaling fleet as much as I dislike the hunting methods of whitecoats (baby seals) in Canada and the treatment of cows and pigs in some of the slaughterhouses in the US.
As opposed to catching fish and letting them suffocate as they lie in the nets? Or leaving them attatched to long lines for hours while they struggle for dear life... right...

4803432113_a36078360f-1.jpg


I was the captain of my 6th grade football team for about 6 months BTW.

Anyway thats all I have time for as I have to go and save some earth worms from drowning due to all the rain we had that was caused by global warming.
 
As opposed to catching fish and letting them suffocate as they lie in the nets? Or leaving them attatched to long lines for hours while they struggle for dear life.

Who says I let them suffocate in nets? In fact, very few of my colleagues use nets anymore. What kind of fishing boats are you talking about? Are you referring to beds of ice?

We've been using reinforced industrial-sized livewells for most of my career. (If you don't know what that is google it.) Some of my colleagues choose to simply bash the fishes' brains in with a hammer if they're close to port--a quick end, they tell me. I'm more of a navigator than the real hands-on captain so I wouldn't know if it's that simple.

Longlines are actually more of a bother in the parts I fish and I've seen other fishermen get in trouble for stretching the line, resulting in some consequences (fines, jail time--then again that captain was also drunk...) Crab fishermen can legally leave crab pots, though.

I'm not a vegetarian, but if you're going to fish or hunt an animal just end it quickly. Seriously, I don't care if the meat tastes better by skinning the animal alive AND THEN cooking it, or serving the animal while it's still breathing. That seems unnecessary, but I'm not a chef so I wouldn't know.
 
Let's face it, kiddos, these Japanese sailors are blatantly lying to everyone by painting, "SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH" on their ships. That's not what they are using the whales for. They are killing whales, and selling them at market. Now, the Sea Shepherd Conversation Society is actually doing something about it, and all you can say is that they're terrorists? They wouldn't have to if the international community would do something to stop Japan's gross violation of the anti-commercial whaling moratorium.

In other words, cry me a goddamn river. LOL.


Now, if you don't mind, I have to fly to the US and go help my brothers in the Gulf and save the endangered turtles in the BP oil spill.

I wish you all the luck in the world, MarinaLifer. I wish I could afford to travel down there, but I've been without a job since January.
 
Let's face it, kiddos, these Japanese sailors are blatantly lying to everyone by painting, "SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH" on their ships. That's not what they are using the whales for. They are killing whales, and selling them at market. Now, the Sea Shepherd Conversation Society is actually doing something about it, and all you can say is that they're terrorists? They wouldn't have to if the international community would do something to stop Japan's gross violation of the anti-commercial whaling moratorium.

In other words, cry me a goddamn river. LOL.
I don't see how painting "SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH" is lying? Maybe the Japanese are studying the sustainability of whaling. How else could you do that by any other means than by taking the whales and see how the stocks replenish? Maybe they have a lot of data already gathered to submit to the IWC to show them that whaling is sustainable.

What I find laughable is how everone is an expert and knows exactly what is going on. You know what they say, assumptions is the mother of all ****ups...

assumptions-1.jpg


Now let me get back killing those cockroaches, damm things won't stand still.
 
Made an account just to say, those defending the actions of the aggressors (Whoever had the big *** boat that obviously rammed the small *** boat) that's pathetic. You can't honestly say that the small *** boat was going to intentionally ram into the big *** boat, you also can't say that the small *** boat was going to go right in front of the big *** boat to try and stop it. Here's why, for you common sense deprived individuals with some sick sense of nationalism.

1. That small *** high-tech boat most likely cost a fortune to build and maintain, what makes you in your right mind, actually believe that it could:
A. Damage a boat that size (and the boat I'm referring to is the japanese one) at the angle it was at and how far ahead it was.
B. Try to stop a boat that size by simply moving in front of it, that's just plain stupid.
2. If you watch video of it at a distance, not only can you see the big *** boat steering towards the small *** boat (not away btw). But they're shooting water at the boat even AFTER they crashed into it. Normally, just between you and me, you don't steer into something AND try to shoot it with water, that you're trying to avoid.

You don't need to be an expert or a rocket science to figure the above two out, it was intentionally crashed into, it doesn't matter what you want to say, how you want to spin it. I don't care much for all of this crap, saw a TV show went to look up more information saw this post and was disgusted. "Terrorists" What are they going to do to you? Shine a light on you? Chase you with their boat? Just seems to me the people on these whaling boats are gigantic ******* pussies and so are the ones defending them in this instance.
 
^ I remember seeing the footage and at the last moment the Sea Shepard group moved forward as the Japanese whaling boat was coming into their path. Just saying. (and if this was the case, i think they were not trying to damage the Japanese whaling vessel, but rather discredit the Japanese whalers by making it appear that they rammed the activists, thus getting pepple to agree with their side of the argument).

But either way- the whaling activists had been harrassing the whalers all day long, trying to obstruct & interfere with their whaling activities as much as possible. The whalers were just doing their job and were going to do it regardless of the activists interferance. An incident (or accident) like this was bound to happen sooner or later.

And while the whaling activists might have a fairly good moral cause, i completely disagree with the ways in which they go about it, harrassing innocent whalers & being untruthful etc;

"Sea Shepherd announced during the trial it would not let Bethune participate in further protests, but said Thursday that was a tactic to help him avoid prison time and he's free to rejoin.";

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20100710p2g00m0dm002000c.html

Anti-whaling activists don't care about anything other than whales. The aggressive tactics they use to achieve their goals discredit their cause and cause general members of the public to disrespect animal rights activism in general.
While i care about animals, i would never ever join any animal activist group as i think they are all deceitful & very narrow-minded; they never want to compromise, they just try & force everyone to agree with their way of thinking. They think that because their cause is a highly morally correct one, they think that means that any bad behaviour they do can be excused in the name of that cause. I have met too many animal activists who think its totally acceptable to harrass people or destroy/damage other peoples property/possessions etc if its in the name of their animal activist cause (which they think is morally superior).
These are the first steps towards terrorism.
 
I don't care much for the "Sea Shepards" or these whalers, hell I was channel surfing when I saw the show, I heard about the incident back at the beginning of the year but didn't peak to much interest. While it was most likely going to happen anyway, what I was saying was just by going by the facts of the videos. People say propaganda, but I mean, you can't really fake a real big turn from the big ship, that was obviously pissed off and saw a chance and took it.

I don't agree with either side, other than "if you're going to kill something, kill it, don't torture it" I have no stance on either side. What I saw, was the boat jerk to the left (right if you were facing the way the boat was) at last minute far enough to hit the black boat. Did they do it on purpose? Most likely, I would say so. Did they have it coming? Yeah I would say so as well. But is that what happened? That the big boat intentionally hit the black one? Without a doubt, I don't care why they did it, they did do it, is what I was getting at essentially, after seeing multiple people deny that they did it on purpose.
 
I agree there is wrong on both sides. But in this footage you can see both boats were going forward at the same time (you can see the water being propelled from under the Ady Gil in this particular footage, so there is no doubt it was also going forward into the path of the incoming whaling ship at the time of the crash);
BBC News - Anti-whaling activists accuse Japan fleet of attack

Personally it annoys me that Sea Shepherd harrass the whalers all day long, damaging their boat & obstructing their business, and then as soon as the whalers react and damage the activists boat, the activists start crying out, saying how they were attacked & making out how innocent they are etc- even though it was them who were acting aggressively all day long up until that point. One of the activists was even carrying a loaded crossbow;

During the trial, Sea Shepherd announced it would not let Bethune join further protests because it found he had loaded a bow and arrows onto his vessel before it set sail -- even though he didn't intend using them against the Japanese whaling ships.

Sea Shepherd founder Paul Watson said Thursday that ban "was really just a legal strategy" as "the Japanese judges would (have been) hesitant to release Pete ... if they knew he was going to be (back) down in the southern ocean."

"We spent half a million dollars and put every bit of thought we could into getting him out of prison and that was a strategy," he told New Zealand's National Radio.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20100709p2g00m0in001000c.html

Why would someone have a loaded crossbow other than to use it against other people? Especially considering these circumstances.
The activists are going on & on about how the whalers were out to harm them, but i think this is quite the opposite and i think that if the activists had harmed any of the whalers they would on the outside say to the general public how remorseful they were but on the inside they would be celebrating their actions.

So yeah, i simply cannot condone/protect the Sea Shepherd activists as i do not think they are honest nor admirable people. Also at the end of the day no-one was injured in the incident, and i think this issue will never be a clear cut one either way.
 
^ I remember seeing the footage and at the last moment the Sea Shepard group moved forward as the Japanese whaling boat was coming into their path. Just saying. (and if this was the case, i think they were not trying to damage the Japanese whaling vessel, but rather discredit the Japanese whalers by making it appear that they rammed the activists, thus getting pepple to agree with their side of the argument).

Did you not see the Shonan Maru No. 2 turn towards the Ady Gil? Do you have selective eyesight? Here, watch the video for me. And tell me if that big boat didn't change it's course.

 
Did you not see the Shonan Maru No. 2 turn towards the Ady Gil? Do you have selective eyesight? Here, watch the video for me. And tell me if that big boat didn't change it's course.

No need to be insulting. Of course anyone could see the Shonan Maru heading towards the Ady Gil, but i can also see that if the Ady Gil hadn't of moved forward then the Shonan Maru would have never have hit the Ady Gil.

I believe that the Shonan Maru crew just intended to scare the Ady Gil crew off by sailing their ship very close to the Ady Gil (i certainly don't believe they had murderous intentions or anything like that), but the plan screwed up when the Ady Gil crew didn't back off (as what most people would usually do if being approached at speed by a hefty great whaling ship) but instead moved even more into the ships path in the last moments.

This theory is further backed up by the fact that even when the Ady Gil crew moved forward in the last moments the whaling ship still only knocked the nose of their boat, which IMO if the Shonan Maru crew had been intending to ram into their boat then they would have at the least gone into the side of the boat by this point.
 
If they weren't intending to hit the big boat, and instead the big boat crashed intentionally into them, I could see why he would bring a loaded crossbow with him. I would to, I'd be pissed off the dude just wrecked my millions of dollars boat the captain of that big boat is lucky he didn't get shot in the knee caps, I would have done it. But I'm sure he brought it to ensure his safety as he attempted to make a civilian arrest, though I would have just called the cops, but then again I'm not an expert on how whatever goes on out there so my opinion doesn't mean much.

What I saw was a big boat turn to run into the small boat, while the small boat shouldn't have been up there or that close, I don't believe it was their intention on getting him, or hitting the bigger boat (because really, I don't know any individual activist that has millions of dollars to throw away). I do believe the smaller boat and it's crew morally deserved it for harassing people, and it happened, can't deny that it happened because I saw three angles, and all three pointed at the same thing.

Though, I respect what you're saying and I'm glad I got you instead of Astroboy lol.
 
If they weren't intending to hit the big boat, and instead the big boat crashed intentionally into them, I could see why he would bring a loaded crossbow with him. I would to, I'd be pissed off the dude just wrecked my millions of dollars boat the captain of that big boat is lucky he didn't get shot in the knee caps, I would have done it. But I'm sure he brought it to ensure his safety as he attempted to make a civilian arrest, though I would have just called the cops, but then again I'm not an expert on how whatever goes on out there so my opinion doesn't mean much.

What I saw was a big boat turn to run into the small boat, while the small boat shouldn't have been up there or that close, I don't believe it was their intention on getting him, or hitting the bigger boat (because really, I don't know any individual activist that has millions of dollars to throw away). I do believe the smaller boat and it's crew morally deserved it for harassing people, and it happened, can't deny that it happened because I saw three angles, and all three pointed at the same thing.

Though, I respect what you're saying and I'm glad I got you instead of Astroboy lol.
What are they doing there in the first place? Why were they in a position like they were in? What were they doing to provoke an attack like you and others are saying? The point is they should not have been there, b/c what they are doing is illegal. So if they got rammed and lost millions of dollars of equipment, they should of thought about that when they woke up that morning. So no I don't see why he has the right to have a loaded crossbow or why he should be able to bash someones kneecaps in. Those activists are going out looking for trouble and from where I see it the Japanese boats have every right to arm themselves against these idiots, b/c as law states right now , they are not breaking any. So any damages they receive are only due to themselves, they cannot cry innocent.

Hey, I all for believing in what you want, but there are ways to protest and this is not one of them. Lets have vigilantes running around dealing out punishment were they see fit, yeah I want to live in a society like that....

I hope they realise they are polluting the ocean with there big speed boat and the Bob Barker. I believe a boat that size would go through thousands of liters of diesel a day , so what they are doing is destroying the whales environments, but do they care...
 
So i guess we all agree that whoever who hit who, the activists pretty much deserved what was coming to them?
What do you think about the way they go about their anti-whaling cause in general?

Personally i think that because they regularly behave so badly (and never show any sincere remorse over their bad actions, but even celebrate them, hailing their most aggressive activists as heroes etc) they are actually hampering the anti-whaling movement. The Japanese government (quite rightly) view them as criminals and not legit activists to be treated with respect. Also the worse these activists act the less the Japanese public are going to listen to their complaints- the Japanese public will just hear about how these activists are going about destroying their whaling industries through harrassment & illegal activities. Its an attack on Japanese economy, culture & law.

Its like politics: you may agree with a political parties objectives, but you may also completely disagree with the way they go about those objectives, and so end up not supporting their objectives.
And its a real shame as if;
a. Sea Shepherd does do something bad enough to get their organisation taken down, as then such a scandal will have a huge negative impact on animal rights activist causes in general, discrediting all animal rights groups in the eyes of the general public (people will view all animal rights activists as narrow-minded extremists, which a lot of people do already). But on the other hand;
b. The chances of Sea Shepherd ever backing down on its own accord and performing more peaceful or legal protests etc is highly unlikely. If anything they are more intent now on going back to the seas to harrass whalers than they ever were before.

I guess the only real solution is that the general public stops donating so much money to Sea Shepherd so it can't afford to do these acts- perhaps if they hear about how the organisation is spending millions of dollars on boats or bailing out their extreme members in legal cases, then people will think twice about donating to the organisation.

But whatever the case, i think they are certainly doing more to hamper anti-whaling agreements and discredit animal rights activism than actually protecting the whales.

And the way they attack the whalers i think is stupid as they are not responsible for the legality of whaling. As long as whaling is legal in Japan, then the Japanese have every right to go out whaling. Blaming the whalers for whaling is no better than blaming soldiers for a war- its all about politics, but the activists are simply attacking the whalers because they are the easiest targets in this whole issue.
 
i can also see that if the Ady Gil hadn't of moved forward then the Shonan Maru would have never have hit the Ady Gil.

There is only one problem with your argument, Tokis-Phoenix. The Ady Gil's engine was turned off at the time when the Shonan Maru #2 crew decided to be retarded and move way too close to the Ady Gil. If you noticed, the crew of the Ady Gil were on top of the ship.

You mentioned the Shonan Maru #2 being a massive harpoon ship. This is true, and the only reason the Ady Gil moved forward was from the wake of the Shonan Maru #2. They were being pulled closer by the waves. This could have avoided had the Shonan Maru #2 been smart and not decided to try and "scare" the Ady Gil.
 
There is only one problem with your argument, Tokis-Phoenix. The Ady Gil's engine was turned off at the time when the Shonan Maru #2 crew decided to be retarded and move way too close to the Ady Gil. If you noticed, the crew of the Ady Gil were on top of the ship.

You mentioned the Shonan Maru #2 being a massive harpoon ship. This is true, and the only reason the Ady Gil moved forward was from the wake of the Shonan Maru #2. They were being pulled closer by the waves. This could have avoided had the Shonan Maru #2 been smart and not decided to try and "scare" the Ady Gil.
Coveniently ignoring the fact as to WHY WERE THEY THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I love how people love to blame others... I really love this society....:banghead:
 
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