Teaching in Japan isn't practical...is it?

Glenski, I think the problem is people are confusing consumption of Japanese good/culture with trying to make a living in Japan. It's basically chalk and cheese.

Also Japan is not a immigration country. There is no concept of this so calls multi-culturalism which is an exclusive artifact of Anglo Saxon psyche prevalent in former British colonies. If you want to come to Japan, you better bring something special or you can stay where you are now.

Eikawa programs are good for a working holiday but it's pretty much impossible trying to build a career in Japan without having some special skills prior and not just enthusiasm which offers no value to employers.

I was invited to be the SME for a Japanese client dining 5 stars staying in grand Hyatt roppongi for 2 weeks. It was immediately obvious just how hard Japanese people are expected to work. While i was working the obligatory 9-5, theses guys were getting in at 8 leaving at 11. Dunno what the hell they were doing but it's not a great life.

The best part of life in Japan is when you are a student. No responsibilities. Once you step in the workforce, it's all downhill. A fact many ppl here don't understand, they are getting into life in Japan that Japanese themselves don't look forward to. Not to mention to Japanese society, they are illiterate and unskilled.

Tamayo said:

Honestly, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to teach an English class until I had a degree in English, so I don't think I'd fit that description. I'd definitely prefer to teach conversational English over what I hear is being taught in most schools,

Click to expand...

Schools teach conversational English, too. Badly, but it's done. What do you hear?

Glenski said:

What do you hear?

Click to expand...

Mostly the sort of issues that Zorro and Nahadef talked about in the English teachers thread, such as teachers being unable to deviate from a specific curriculum that the school boards want to be taught as well as how they should teach it. I've also read in a few different books and articles online about how wasteful the investment in English education is since it doesn't teach the students nearly enough to use English very practically. I've seen many videos online created by entire classes of Japanese students who want their English classes to teach them more effectively and leave them with skills that will help them in the long run.

I haven't studied the situation beyond just hearing and reading about it here and there, but what I got out of it was that English education in Japan is in desperate need of reform. By the way, I feel like I may have gotten the wrong idea about eikawa -- is it just a different school setting, like an honors/alternative class, or is it more like an extracurricular class that people pursue on their own?

Tamayo said:

Mostly the sort of issues that Zorro and Nahadef talked about in the English teachers thread, such as teachers being unable to deviate from a specific curriculum that the school boards want to be taught as well as how they should teach it.

Click to expand...

That is undergoing change. I can't recall specifics, but if you are an ALT from a dispatch company, your employer is not the school, and they can't dictate what/how you teach. You do what your company says. Even so, it will depend a lot on the relationship between your employer and the board of education or school. ALT business here is a terrible mess.

I've also read in a few different books and articles online about how wasteful the investment in English education is since it doesn't teach the students nearly enough to use English very practically.

Click to expand...

True. What's your point, though?

I've seen many videos online created by entire classes of Japanese students who want their English classes to teach them more effectively and leave them with skills that will help them in the long run.

Click to expand...

What research I've done (no videos, but journal articles) shows that students want to be able to converse better, but their intention is not to have any long-term skills for work purposes. They merely want to chat with foreign friends more than anything else. Keep that in mind.

The problem begins with the college entrance exam system. Teachers are obligated to teach students to the exam, especially during the last 2 years of high school. Since the vast majority of such exams have no speaking component (and are unlikely to in any foreseeable future), kids are taught dreary grammar-translation (useless in the long run), how to unscramble sentences (a waste of time), and how to guess at multiple choice tests (like that helps someone with a conversation). End result? Kids leave with 6 years of English education, where only the first 2-3 years were of any useful merit (to instruct them in the basics of grammar), and the inability to get beyond "Hi, how are you?"

I'd like to see the videos you mentioned.

By the way, I feel like I may have gotten the wrong idea about eikawa -- is it just a different school setting, like an honors/alternative class, or is it more like an extracurricular class that people pursue on their own?

Click to expand...

You're way wrong if you think it's for honors kids. Eikaiwa itself means "English conversation". The word has evolved into meaning the business, too. It is a company operation where classes are arranged to help people learn how to use the spoken word, for tourist activities, daily life, work (sometimes), or just about anything else. Keep in mind that it is strongly considered a business operation by its managers (who often/usually have no training or background in teaching). The object for them is to make money, even if that means scamming clients with lesson tickets that are non-refundable (one reason NOVA went down), or putting people in classes with such mixed abilities that it's impossible to teach sensibly, or that teachers may have to attend mixer parties to show themselves off and cajole students and prospective students into staying/joining. Kids and adults take the classes. Kids are often forced to do it because parents think it will benefit them in public school. They may start as young as 1 year old! Adults take it for 2 reasons: most people because it's a hobby or even a social function (to get out of the house and meet people), or because their employer heavily requires it as a means to pass TOEIC with higher scores for promotions or overseas transfer. The latter point (about businessmen) is something I've been researching a while now. Most people who take an eikaiwa class are not there for serious improvement in their language ability and/or they are deluding themselves into thinking it will help with a mere 1 class per week and no homework and no inclination to self-study.

Glenski said:

That is undergoing change.

Click to expand...

That is certainly good to hear!

Glenski said:

True. What's your point, though?

Click to expand...

Simply that I would prefer to take part in a meaningful education, not a load of scripted garbage that isn't going to help, at least, so far as I have a choice. It sounds to me like this problem is pervasive in Japanese eduction, though.

Glenski said:

They merely want to chat with foreign friends more than anything else. Keep that in mind.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I figured as much.

Glenski said:

I'd like to see the videos you mentioned.

Click to expand...

I'll have to do a little digging around to find them again -- it's been a while, and I didn't favorite them or anything. I'll post them here if and when I find them!

EDIT: Here's one of them. It's a little corny, but hits home, I think. There was quite an abundance of videos like this for me at one point. I'm not sure if it was a social networking trend or if several sites had just begun suggesting videos that I was likely to be interested for a period of time, but there were a lot. I think what happened was some school board opened itself up for suggestions, and then a bunch of classes followed suit with the video idea. I'll see if I can't find more.

Glenski said:

It is a company operation where classes are arranged to help people learn how to use the spoken word, for tourist activities, daily life, work (sometimes), or just about anything else.

Click to expand...

Alright -- I did mostly understand it then. It's really a shame to hear that so many of them are in the business of scamming though. How on Earth do the bad programs manage to stay afloat?

Glenski said:

They may start as young as 1 year old!

Click to expand...

And I thought juku was crazy.. That's insane!

Tamayo said:

Simply that I would prefer to take part in a meaningful education, not a load of scripted garbage that isn't going to help, at least, so far as I have a choice.

Click to expand...

There aren't many ways to do what you want. If you want control over what you teach, either be lucky with an eikaiwa, get your own business, get a Japanese teaching license, or be lucky in some university jobs. Most everything else has a curriculum/syllabus/plan laid out for you to follow.

I have experience in eikaiwa, private HS and national university, if it makes any difference.

I'll have to do a little digging around to find them again -- it's been a while, and I didn't favorite them or anything. I'll post them here if and when I find them!

Click to expand...

Thanks in advance for the vid links.

EDIT: Here's one of them. It's a little corny, but hits home, I think.

Click to expand...

I know the teacher who uploaded this. Very nice and sharp guy, and one of his research themes is student motivation to study English. Go figure that he made this (and another similar) video. I can't recall if he / they sent it to the BOE or somewhere or not. Mind you, this was prompted by the teacher and involves university students (I forget their ages).

Alright -- I did mostly understand it then. It's really a shame to hear that so many of them are in the business of scamming though. How on Earth do the bad programs manage to stay afloat?

Click to expand...

Define bad. Some have congenial business managers. Some shuffle foreign teachers frequently so students don't see disgruntled ones. Some may be the only game in (small) town. Some (like NOVA was) were around for an eternity based on individual (or nearly so) lessons that allowed students enormous flexibility in taking as many lessons per week as they wanted with various teachers instead of being assigned to just one. Some merely offer an aggressive approach to sales (train station ads, people handing out tissue packages with the company name, flyers, etc.). Some outright lie (to students as well as teachers).

Glenski said:

There aren't many ways to do what you want. If you want control over what you teach, either be lucky with an eikaiwa, get your own business, get a Japanese teaching license, or be lucky in some university jobs. Most everything else has a curriculum/syllabus/plan laid out for you to follow.

Click to expand...

What's your current teaching situation like?

Glenski said:

I have experience in eikaiwa, private HS and national university, if it makes any difference.

Click to expand...

Which was your favorite experience?

Glenski said:

I know the teacher who uploaded this. Very nice and sharp guy, and one of his research themes is student motivation to study English. Go figure that he made this (and another similar) video. I can't recall if he / they sent it to the BOE or somewhere or not. Mind you, this was prompted by the teacher and involves university students (I forget their ages).

Click to expand...

Really? What a crazy coincidence! Do you know what became of this project by any chance? I was

Glenski said:

Define bad.

Click to expand...

The ones who are willing to screw people over for money. That seems like a pretty shady education business. Do you see eikaiwa as good or bad, at least in general?

Tamayo said:

What's your current teaching situation like?

Click to expand...

Big question. If you mean to ask about my freedom to teach what I want, I'm fortunate. In HS I had to work off syllabi that other people wrote (usually people who never had even taught my class!), but at uni, after the first year I can write/modify my own. I've even cut out a course and created a new one (starting next year).

Which was your favorite experience?

Click to expand...

In terms of what? Each was unique in its own right.
Eikaiwa was first, and it was a good introduction to the teaching world because it was pretty easy to implement.
HS was the most brutal with the most classes and length of time in the office and number of responsibilities (dorm duty, club activity, study abroad, festival, meetings, etc.). But I had a very nice group of fellow teachers (not all FT) who for the most part worked closely to get the job done despite so many things against us.
Uni gives me my own office and a research budget, and fewer classes (although longer than in HS).

Really? What a crazy coincidence! Do you know what became of this project by any chance?

Click to expand...

He presented the video at a conference (I saw it then), but after that, no. You could write and ask.

Do you see eikaiwa as good or bad, at least in general?

Click to expand...

Mediocre. The potential is there, but accepting untrained uneducated teachers is a major flaw, even for the good places. I've been posting for 15 years on teaching forums to help people understand what the teaching situation is all about, the pitfalls and misinformation, etc.

Morphling said:

Not to mention to Japanese society, they are illiterate and unskilled.

Click to expand...

Are you talking about the current , weak English language skills of most Japanese,
(which can be true)
or just that modern Japanese people overall cant read their own language and they are unskilled at everything?
(which is wrong)