- 22 Jan 2007
- 51
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- #51
I think Glenski was looking for compromise in his life in Japan. He enjoys his "American-ness" but at the same time is willing to behave in a Japanese fashion as well. He sounds to me to be aiming for the middle of the road and I think that's great. As for going native, I think it's when people go over the top, it seems fake and immature and to me an insult to the "native" people.
"Act Japanese", pugtm? Some of us, like goldiegirl explained, draw the line somewhere. You don't. Let's agree to disagree. Personally, I think a foreigner living in another country should adapt to certain things, but not to "go native" when it is clearly an obvious bit of fakery. How many Japanese people walk around daily in kimonos, for example? Not that many, and certainly more of the older set do, yet I know of a guy who is in his late 20s who feels the need to do that daily. Too weird and over the top for me.
Would you say that "going native" includes adopting all mannerisms like I've described? It would seem so. If I read you right, then I would have to reply that it most definitely strips away one's individuality. To consciously change one's unconscious mannerisms just "to fit in" is again going against the grain and over the top to me. And, for what? You call it respect, but why do people have to change their innate unconscious mannerisms to show respect for the country they're in? That pretty much slaps me in the face and says I don't respect Japan. I take offense to that.
But thats not going native that is going way over the top. There is a difference. But for example if he wore a kimono during a festival only once or twice a year i see nothing wrong with that. As for losing your identity if you fear you will lose it by living somewhere and acting a certain way you dont sound too sure about your identitity. Identity consists of more than mannerisms it is history and background and can never be changed. I doubt your eyes will all of a sudden slant over and you will not shrink and lose all your body hair just because you cover your mouth when you laugh or you go to an onsen. Plus someone like me wants to partake deeply in the culture and immerse ourselfs in it completely at least for a time or even for life. and sometimes when you come from a ambiguous culture like americas it's not such a bad thing. Some hate their identity and want to lose it like that guy with the kimono. But really i pity him."How many Japanese people walk around daily in kimonos, for example? Not that many, and certainly more of the older set do, yet I know of a guy who is in his late 20s who feels the need to do that daily. Too weird and over the top for me.
a valid point.
But i still hate it when foreigners live in another country and refuse to act normally and like natives. If you live in that country respect their customs. if i lived in japan i would try my hardest to act Japanese out of respect. Just like i expect any Japanese person living in Israel or the united states to act Israeli or American.
it's not that i dislike my own but that i like theirs. It's all about how you interpret it. I wasen't saying that that part appllies to me.pugtm, wow, what a slap in the face to the Japanese or any other country...you're main reason for "going native" is that you don't like your own countries culture?! Seems very shallow to me.
we have these here too and in israel and everywhere in the world. I specifically hate the otaku kind who really dont have a clue but pretend they do. Me and my friends always get good laughs at anime and manga conventions(my number 1 reason for going). In fact my sister is like that. Here entire understanding of japanese culture comes from naruto. She even tried to use the honorifics at home. she only knew 2 san and chan and used them innapropraitly. I finally got annoyed and told her that untill she can hold a conversation in japanese for 30 minutes straight she isn't allowed to use them. Of course unlike me who is studying japanese in my free time she is too lazy so i am saved that annoyance for a long time to come.Hmm, yes the 'over the top' people sometimes drive me nuts. Actually the one-upmanship over linguistic abilities is sometimes boring as well. Another forum I posted on got their panties in a knot because I once used cross-switiching in my post (something I generally don't do), yet several members practice it regularly when they brag about their language skills and how 'well adjusted' they are to living here. What generally comes across instead is how shallow they are; with girls and making a living being their main considerations. Then again, can't say I never thought about those two topics, they just don't take up 95% of all my conversations (well for that forum, girls).
Nothing wrong with being anything even a japanophile. I am one. we all are to a degree otherwise we wouldn't be arguing stupid stuff like this. But you're also right. each person has to live his own life. Japanophiles are no better than anybody else and i sincerely hope i didn't come across as superior. If i did i apologize.Putgm,
I'm sorry I was ranting a bit earlier. My point was that these guys do have some language ability, and live in Japan, but they look down on others who are not Japanophiles like them.
Japanophiles are no better than anybody else and i sincerely hope i didn't come across as superior. If i did i apologize
I also think that the Japanese need to get off their high horses about this kind of stuff.
I think we need to hear what you think is "going native". I for one am very curious.But thats not going native that is going way over the top. There is a difference. But for example if he wore a kimono during a festival only once or twice a year i see nothing wrong with that.
Thank you again for another slap in the face. Or perhaps you have misunderstood me. I hate armchair psychologists.As for losing your identity if you fear you will lose it by living somewhere and acting a certain way you dont sound too sure about your identitity.
I was only talking about the unconscious things, so please stay on topic. How do you feel about a foreigner who adopts many of the mannerisms that are unconsciously expressed in another country?Identity consists of more than mannerisms it is history and background and can never be changed.
Back to my question above... what do you consider "immersing" yourself in the culture and "going native"? Immersing for life sure sounds like going native to me, but I am open to hearing what your definitions are.Plus someone like me wants to partake deeply in the culture and immerse ourselfs in it completely at least for a time or even for life.
I pity him, too, but I don't think you have really fully understood my point. I can't make it any clearer, so I'm not going to try.and sometimes when you come from a ambiguous culture like americas it's not such a bad thing. Some hate their identity and want to lose it like that guy with the kimono. But really i pity him.
The problem is when people start using language ability as a gauge to test whether you are 'worthy' or not (of belonging to their community or staying in that country).