Suicide and bullying

[GioSlush]

Hi, this is my first post, I've been browsing this site since my freshman year in highschool and I think its great, I just recently made myself official so i can join in the merryment.
Well back to business, I've read alot of stories online (Asahi Shimbun) about bullying and bully related suicides usaully associated with boys and girls aged 13 to 16.
I've got a few questions that inturn bring up new questions:
- Is the severity of the bullying really that harsh?
- Are the suicides caused by really severe bullying, or are the confidence/coping skills of Japanese youth just low?
- Is suicide in Japan more frequent than that of the US, or does our relative large geographic size make US suicide seem more like isolated incidents as oposed to relative small Japan's size make local news by our standards seem like national news?
- Does Japanese media particularly sensationalize suicide and bullying?
- And the most base question, Is Japanese bullying harsher than US bullying? (generalization)
Sub topic Question:
- Whats up with the whole taking off of the shoes and putting a note in them before suicide?

 

[Davey]

Hi, this is my first post, I've been browsing this site since my freshman year in highschool and I think its great, I just recently made myself official so i can join in the merryment.

Welcome to Jref.

- Are the suicides caused by really severe bullying, or are the confidence/coping skills of Japanese youth just low?

Being bullied is probably one of the main reasons for committing suicide, other than that would be the pressure they have for studying for many examinations, having no father love, etc.

- Does Japanese media particularly sensationalize suicide and bullying?

They should pay more attention to this, because it is a problem in Japan but most of them don't want to see that.

- And the most base question, Is Japanese bullying harsher than US bullying? (generalization)

I think a big difference between Japanese and US bullying is that in Japan you are bullied by a big group, while in the US you will probably be bullied by only a couple of big kids (please correct me if I am wrong).

They 窶堙債 Wa in Japan means a lot to the Japanese, harmony. Because of this wa people think what is good for the group, instead of themselves. If you are different than the group you are in, it is hard to be accepted. and you can be bullied. This happened on schools, but also on the work place.

 

[nice gaijin]

Dutch Baka, I think you are talking about 和, not to be confused with the particle "は." If you wish to write it in hiragana, please use "わ" instead.

That aside, bullying in Japan is generally a different kind of abuse than in the states. Whereas in America, bullying is commonly thought of as simply physical abuse, singling out and teasing or attacking someone who is weak or makes an easy target. In Japan, it is more commonly a group effort of actively ignoring the target, to the point where they begin to doubt their own worth as a human being. Instead of drawing attention to the target, they are completely ignored, which can be even more psychologically damaging than a few aggressive teenagers.

However, this is just my take on a situation that I have observed only through second or third-hand resources (News and some first hand accounts of teachers and students). So please consider my response anything but definitive.

 

[epigene]

Nice gaijin has a point there, too, but I'll just give my own personal opinion on this as someone who had two kids go through school in Japan and some experience on this matter:

- Is the severity of the bullying really that harsh?

Yes, I think so in some cases, especially those reported in the media. Some kids really don't care about the lives of other people. However, a lot of the bullying is not that brutal, though prevalent.

- Are the suicides caused by really severe bullying, or are the confidence/coping skills of Japanese youth just low?

Yes, some are from severe bullying. And, there is also a lack of confidence/coping skills on the part of the victims in other cases. There are many kids who don't feel loved at home, do not trust adults and do not try to seek help. It is a family issue, in my view. Kids experienced bullying in the old days, too, but they had more strength and perseverance to cope with bullies and were able to seek help of their parents or other adults in the community. In the past, there were also kids who had strong sense of justic who would come to the rescue. The problem now is that such kids are very few today.
There are very often family and discipline-related problems on the side of the bullies as well.

- Is suicide in Japan more frequent than that of the US, or does our relative large geographic size make US suicide seem more like isolated incidents as oposed to relative small Japan's size make local news by our standards seem like national news?

I haven't checked out the statistics yet, so I can't answer this question.

- Does Japanese media particularly sensationalize suicide and bullying?

In a way, yes, but it is mostly because kids rarely killed themselves in the past. To put it in exaggerated terms, everyone would be surprised if the number of such deaths that had been (or was believed to be) close to zero jumps to any finite number and that number continues to climb.

- And the most base question, Is Japanese bullying harsher than US bullying? (generalization)

I don't know how US bullying is, but from what I see in the movies, American bullying is inclined to be physical? In Japan, bullying cases can be physically violent in some cases, especially boys. Other truly serious bullying cases involve ignoring, humiliation in public (meaning in front of peers at school and away from the sight and attention of adults), abusive remarks (psychological pressure), making the victim steal money from parents or from stores, and/or outright control of the victim like a slave.

Sub topic Question:
- Whats up with the whole taking off of the shoes and putting a note in them before suicide?

I don't know when it started, but it is customary for people planning to jump off cliffs or buildings to take off shoes, put them neatly in place, and place a suicide note there. I've seen it happens a lot in dramas. I've never seen one in real life... thank God!

 

[GioSlush]

Wow, thanks guys. I appreciate your replies, thatsme posted a similar thread but his topic was vry broad, so i just wanted to elaborate on that

 

[Ghostless-Shell]

I remember watching a show when I was in tokyo about this very subject.
This woman was a victim of being bullied and now as an adult she has helped start a program to educate children on what bulling could do.
Now in some schools groups of people are forming like these clubs to help support and defend those being bullied.
But, on a personal view of this I think it is a very big problem in japan that I think they maybe finally trying to take control of.
People don't realize the effect it can have on someone, and plus all the other things kids have to deal with in japan..it's a very serious issue.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

Surely bullying problems are the same in every country? The country of residence can't change a persons mind, unless you blame it on the media in which case the media differs in each country.

What exactly IS the suicide rate in Japan? (I just noticed how morbid this actually is...)

 

[SephysManda]

As my mum says a lot of kids in Japan do suicide because of the school systems. Because they have to take exams, peers, bullying I'm sure is a large part, and not being loved.

32,863 people comitted suicide in 1999 which was 35% increase form '97. I'm sure it has risen a lot since then.

 

[nice gaijin]

As my mum says a lot of kids in Japan do suicide because of the school systems. Because they have to take exams, peers, bullying I'm sure is a large part, and not being loved.

Your mom seems to have a low opinion of Japanese parents...

 

[Ghostless-Shell]

As my mum says a lot of kids in Japan do suicide because of the school systems. Because they have to take exams, peers, bullying I'm sure is a large part, and not being loved.
32,863 people comitted suicide in 1999 which was 35% increase form '97. I'm sure it has risen a lot since then.

I don't know about the parents not loving the kids, they love 'em as much as here.
I think it's more about the pressure they are under more than anything.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

Yeah. It can't be about parents not loving the kids. Surely loving your child has nothing to do with the country you are from.

 

[String]

I was glancing through a couple of articles last week and I remember reading that Japan had one of the highest suicide ratings in the world. I don't recall where it was though.

 

[KirinMan]

Yeah. It can't be about parents not loving the kids. Surely loving your child has nothing to do with the country you are from.

Kirie I do not know how you were showed "love" when you were a child but I do know that here in Japan children are not "showed" love in the same manner that American kids are.

Of course there are exceptions, however many Japanese parents do not take time to actually "talk" to their kids, hug them, or say things like "I love you". It's culturally different.

Also to the OP here, bullying is not restricted to schools either, I know from first hand experience, that many adults get bullied as well in their places of employment. Bullying here is more pyscological in nature rather than physical.

 

[dark_secrester]

Bullying is the same in the US,UK,Japan, Russia, India, Australia, Germany, Brazil -anywhere you go, somebody is going to like you and somebody is going to hate you.

In Britain, and i'm sure it happens elsewhere, (everywhere else) is Chavs (known as yobs, yobos, scalleys, vandalisers etc - you get the picture). These can be anybody. I'm not just talking about your gangster chavs, but goths, skaters, bmxers, and much more, go after specific people due to their 'group', eg - chavs hate goths and skaters, and vice versa, bmxers in some cases hate skaters, some skaters hate goths, but not all of them etc etc etc.
What I've seen is that the chavs that listen to rap and where tracksuit bottoms usually attack in groups, whilst skaters seem to attack in pairs, and goths just swear at you beind your back. This is a form of peer pressure, and kids find it hard to find somewhere they fit in.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

This is true of all countries. There will always be somebody who doesn't like something about you, be it your style, your hair or your face. Somebody will either dislike you or be envious / afraid of you. This will resuly in bullying, no matter what country you are from. It all depends on how much a person is being bullied, whether they will commit suicide and I don't think the country of origin will change this.

 

[Arctic]

There is going to be bullying in some form or another.. I think the severity or type might depend on location.

Take me for example.. I don't like a guy. we were best friends but, he gave me the shaft. So when he walks up to me in the mornin I stop talking.

Instantly my entire group stops talking.. They are all his friends and have no idea I even have beef with him but, they stop talking. He is desperate to talk.. so as he talks to one member the group is just silent.. and the guy talking to him just sorta nodds his head. If we totally didn't acknowledge him he would go crazy. It would probably be worse for him because he thrives on attention.

Of course if what I am reading in about japanese people (in general) is correct.. physically beating could be worse then traditional "cold shoulder bullying" because its drawing attention to an individual.. they just want to fit in with a group...or it might not be as bad because at least they will still have their friends and people to talk to.

I think the impact of bullying depends on how the people are. I personally believe to some degree different people have personality types based on culture/race/location I mean.. take this for example. I am a white guy who lives in louisiana. To me most of the black girls seem pretty high strung. (not all) but, alot. White chicks.. are sorta "loose" white guys around where i live tend to be arrogant.. while the black guys are sorta easy going. I mean not to be racist but, there is a certain attitude involved

Makes sense that someone in japan the attitude might be more prideful.. and the bigger you are the harder you fall.

disclaimer: I have never lived in or been to japan these are only views taken from written articles I have read, my understanding of japan as it is threw the forums and time spent lurking here.

 

[KirinMan]

I know that many Japanese parents are not pro-active in communicating with their children. Parents in many cases do not want to accept the fact that their child is either the one guilty of bullying someone or vice versa. Many look to lay the blame on the other party involved and do not look inwards toward finding a reason or solution to a bullying problem.

I personally know a number of children that were the targets of bullies at one time or another during ES and JHS, their parents had absolutely no knowledge that their child had to suffer through some very serious problems on their own.

One girl in particular that sticks in my memory used her experiences of being bullied as the subject of a speech contest that she participated in, when her mother heard the speech for the first time, she broke down and cried because she was ignorant and unaware that her daughter had gone through this pretty much on her own.

The girl comes from a very good family, but she felt that there was a stigma attached to being bullied, as if for some reason she was at fault. She had only attempted to assist another girl that was being picked on and she then became the target of the bullying. She even contemplated suicide at one point as well.

The hands off approach to parenting here is a serious cause for concern. Japanese people do not often show tenderness or affection openly, even within their own family. Raising a child doesn't stop when the child enters ES, but continues onward as everyone knows, yet here I often see the responsibility or expectation thereof being passed on to the school's.

Parents often times are not involved in their childrens school activities. I know of countless numbers of parents that have absolutely no idea who their childrens friends are, and don't even remember or know their child's homeroom teachers name.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

You do have a point there. I suppose that the location could be a factor, in that sense. There are a lot of hands-off parents around the world. Are there more of them in Japan than there are anywhere else?

 

[EdZiomek]

Bullying, Abusive Comments, Racial Overtones

America has just suffered another catastrophic murderous event, Virginia Tech incident, and it is now coming out that in addition to the paranoia of the killer, and the isolation, and the poverty, and the self pity, it now comes out that this troubled young man from Korea was publicly humiliated in school with the taunt..."Go back to China".

America is also reeling from the disgraceful comments of a national radio broadcaster, Don Imus, who while broadcasting to all of America, referred to the second-best-in-the-nation women's basketball team members as xxxx-yyyy-prostitute slur.

In most cases, persons that are the subject of this radio personality's bully comments had no opportunity to respond, but in this case, they did, and the radio guy deservedly lost his job. (He will be back, unfortunately).
Bullying is massively destructive, and more and more is being understood as to how crippling and dangerous it can become. Coupled with the bullying is the increasing isolation we are placing our children under...nobody to talk to, nowhere to talk to.

I have taken it one step further. As a former engineering-type and construction person, I have always wondered how architecture and city planning may play a minor role in encouraging depression and anxiety. Are we building today to help in socializing, or help in isolating individuals? Do we have parks to play in, trees to climb, benches to sit on and talk out the life and growing-up issues, or do we concrete everything over?

My feeling is that America is embedding bullying and abusive issues into our social fabric, perpetuating the problem instead of solving the problems.

My article on Designcommunity.com....
http://descom1.artifice.com/forums/topic-16478.html

Is Japan building with "children friendly" communities, are they promoting the socializing of children and adults, or are they ignoring their needs?

Thank you all for mentioning this important subject.

 

[Gentleman10]

America has just suffered another catastrophic murderous event, Virginia Tech incident, and it is now coming out that in addition to the paranoia of the killer, and the isolation, and the poverty, and the self pity, it now comes out that this troubled young man from Korea was publicly humiliated in school with the taunt..."Go back to China".
America is also reeling from the disgraceful comments of a national radio broadcaster, Don Imus, who while broadcasting to all of America, referred to the second-best-in-the-nation women's basketball team members as xxxx-yyyy-prostitute slur.
In most cases, persons that are the subject of this radio personality's bully comments had no opportunity to respond, but in this case, they did, and the radio guy deservedly lost his job. (He will be back, unfortunately).
Bullying is massively destructive, and more and more is being understood as to how crippling and dangerous it can become. Coupled with the bullying is the increasing isolation we are placing our children under...nobody to talk to, nowhere to talk to.
I have taken it one step further. As a former engineering-type and construction person, I have always wondered how architecture and city planning may play a minor role in encouraging depression and anxiety. Are we building today to help in socializing, or help in isolating individuals? Do we have parks to play in, trees to climb, benches to sit on and talk out the life and growing-up issues, or do we concrete everything over?
My feeling is that America is embedding bullying and abusive issues into our social fabric, perpetuating the problem instead of solving the problems.
My article on Designcommunity.com....
http://descom1.artifice.com/forums/topic-16478.html
Is Japan building with "children friendly" communities, are they promoting the socializing of children and adults, or are they ignoring their needs?
Thank you all for mentioning this important subject.

umm...? How do you mean? and what does this have to do with Vtech shootings? Just b/c something happened doesn't mean you can just slap on any meaning to it. 10000000000s of kids get bullied everyday, and do they go crazy like Cho? No, so please don't bring this incident into it for whatever post's agenda is.

 

[Kirie_Maiden]

Not every person who is bullied goes on a killing rampage like Cho, but some do. It is a fact that people react differently to bullying. Some commit suicide, some murder the bullies (admittedly, not often) and some just put up with it.

 

[EdZiomek]

Quantum Change Event

Gentleman10...the V-Tech situation has no meaning to you, or pertinence to this bully topic?

I say this event may be the quantum event to finally define bullying and the consequences. I don't think there is any law, on any American books (correct me if I am wrong) for "provoking", or "verbally insulting" or "intimidating" without a weapon. 10,000,000 persons are humiliated every day, and one in 100,000,000 believes, in his paranoia or ??? mania, that he is bullied and insulted every day of his life. I think the statistical figure in the US is "one out of every 5 college students has considered suicide" (for various reasons). I don't think we are happy with these numbers.

Up to this year or maybe last, I don't think I ever heard this term "bullying" used as a "dangerous act" against individuals. Now, absolutely, positively, it has been brought to the sad limelight. And maybe "advisories" will be drawn up, if not laws, against verbally insulting others to the point of provocation.

Maybe the same is not true in Japan, but in America, I believe we are witnessing this week, a sea-change in understanding, on "bullying".

 

[KirinMan]

I say this event may be the quantum event to finally define bullying and the consequences. I don't think there is any law, on any American books (correct me if I am wrong) for "provoking", or "verbally insulting" or "intimidating" without a weapon. 10,000,000 persons are humiliated every day, and one in 100,000,000 believes, in his paranoia or ??? mania, that he is bullied and insulted every day of his life. I think the statistical figure in the US is "one out of every 5 college students has considered suicide" (for various reasons). I don't think we are happy with these numbers.

Actually I am fairly certain there are laws against verbal insults, things like hate speech, harrasment and sexual harrassment. All of which can be verbal. Oh there are also slander laws as well.

 

[Goldiegirl]

It's hard to admit, but myself and a friend bullied a girl for a whole year. I am not a mean person, my parents loved me, and I had a normal life. I can't even say why we chose to single out one girl and torment her. She told her parents and I, along with my friend got into trouble. It didn't make us stop though, we just became quiet and sneaky about how we bullied this girl. We stopped a year later...we went to high school and she was still in middle school. I don't think we were doing anything that wasn't normal...all three of us were normal kids, and maybe bullying to some degree is normal...? I should mention that I ran into this girl (woman) a few years ago at a shopping mall and she came up to me and said Hi and we chatted. We discussed the whole bullying issue and I did tell her that I was sorry for making her so miserable back in middle school. She wanted to know why we hated her. I had to tell her the truth; we didn't hate her, we just picked her to taunt and tease. I think though that there is a difference between teasing and truly harrasing, or physically threatening a person. I am sure it happens in every country to some extent. My brother in law was teased so bad at school in the countryside of Japan that he refused to go for three months. I was told that his teacher would visit their house every week to talk to him and finally persuaded him back to school. He is still very shy person. I am not sure if his being so shy caused the bullying or if the bullying caused him to become so shy.

 

[KirinMan]

I think though that there is a difference between teasing and truly harrasing

It all depends on whose point of view you are talking about here.
What you think or thought was just teasing could very well be taken as harrassment or bullying by the person receiving it.

If two or three people are ganging up on someone and you just think it's teasing, how would you feel if you were on the receiving end of it, particularly if you are a young impressionable grade school kid or JHS kid?