Song lyrics

Rinilex · 24 Aug 2013

It's a song related to a story I've been translating (included with it.)

"Lost Angels" - Gackt LOST ANGELS 歌詞

1) Is the けして in the first verse 消して, and what is it that he's going to けしてあげよう?

2) The line 激しく抱きしめて・・・なら. "If it's a love that (violently holds you and can be erased)"? Or a love that can be erased by that?

letianchen · 24 Aug 2013

yep it should be 消して, however I think its left ambiguous like "I'll erase it" I think atleast, usually love songs don't make sense in the first place.

2)

If love can be erased by a violent embrace

Rinilex · 24 Aug 2013

I feared that, I just hoped that might have a meaning for something I may have missed. I really hate ambiguity in songs like these.

Ohh, so love in general, not his love for her?

Thank you!

letianchen · 24 Aug 2013

Well I guess it could be his love, but its rather ambiguous. Both seem to make sense. Actually you can find an english translation of that song online and mine was pretty similar to the person who translated it. Whatever sounds best I think.

Rinilex · 24 Aug 2013

Oh, yeah, I saw the translation, it just seemed right to go through it myself to make sure I understood it after the rest of the story. I didn't want to thrown in someone else's work.

日本語は本当に曖昧だね。orz

letianchen · 24 Aug 2013

c'est en forgeant qu'on devient forgeron ( j'espere )

btw orz = orlly = oh really, right? I am slacking on my internet slang

Rinilex · 24 Aug 2013

Haha! J'aime cette phrase. C'est un proverbe franﾃｧ - ais?

EDIT: The forum is changing the cedilla to a kanji?!

orz is an emoticon of someone on their hands and knees. Sometimes it has a little sweat drop next to it -> orz;

Like: "I forget my homework. orz"

letianchen · 24 Aug 2013

I see and yeah no accents lol as you can see there is no accent on espere

Rinilex · 24 Aug 2013

That's strange! I'm curious as to why it changes a cedilla to 軋...

letianchen · 24 Aug 2013

Pour te dire la vérité, je ne sais pas

Rinilex · 26 Aug 2013

In the line 出逢った日のままの・・・, does that modify 君 or 微笑み? And does 浮かべる take on the meaning of 'remember' here?

When he says 嬉しい時には・・・he uses the present tense despite, I think, talking about someone he can't see anymore. Should it be translated into the past tense in English?

Toritoribe · 27 Aug 2013

Rinilex said:
In the line 出逢った日のままの・・・, does that modify 君 or 微笑み?

君

Rinilex said:
And does 浮かべる take on the meaning of 'remember' here?

微笑みを浮かべる is a set phrase, meaning "to smile".

Rinilex said:
When he says 嬉しい時には・・・he uses the present tense despite, I think, talking about someone he can't see anymore. Should it be translated into the past tense in English?

The clause 嬉しいときには恥ずかしそうに俯いて微笑う modifies （君の小さな）癖, i.e., that's her habit.

Rinilex · 27 Aug 2013

Ah! So something like "you smile like you did the day we met."

I understood that, but I think the person he's talking about is dead, so it won't be a habit she has anymore? So instead of translating it as "when you're happy, you look down at the floor and smile" it should be "when you were happy, you looked down..."?

Toritoribe · 27 Aug 2013

Rinilex said:
Ah! So something like "you smile like you did the day we met."

Yes. まま implies that she might actually change but she vanishes as her at the time they met.

Rinilex said:
I understood that, but I think the person he's talking about is dead, so it won't be a habit she has anymore? So instead of translating it as "when you're happy, you look down at the floor and smile" it should be "when you were happy, you looked down..."?

The tense in Japanese is not the same as the one in English. Both the present form and past form can work here as the same meaning. (Or rather, the past form can be used to express a habit she has anymore.)

Rinilex · 27 Aug 2013

I see! Thank you! I didn't know that about まま...

Because I think the verses follow a pattern (the lines that end with なら), is it correct to say that the first line この手で抱きしめて眠れるのなら means something like "If, by being held with these hands, you can sleep, then..."? As in she can sleep because he's holding her?

I noticed with 散り逝く he used 逝 rather than just ゆく, and with the kanji for 'fall' it's implied the people who fell have died, I think... so would it be accurate to translate 散り逝く人 as "the fallen"?

Toritoribe · 27 Aug 2013

Rinilex said:
Because I think the verses follow a pattern (the lines that end with なら), is it correct to say that the first line この手で抱きしめて眠れるのなら means something like "If, by being held with these hands, you can sleep, then..."? As in she can sleep because he's holding her?

Yes.

Rinilex said:
I noticed with 散り逝く he used 逝 rather than just ゆく, and with the kanji for 'fall' it's implied the people who fell have died, I think... so would it be accurate to translate 散り逝く人 as "the fallen"?

He definitely intentionally used the kanji 逝 to imply "to die".

Rinilex · 27 Aug 2013

I thought that. So such a translation would be correct?

Toritoribe · 27 Aug 2013

Yes, your interpretation is correct.

Glenn · 27 Aug 2013

Rinilex said:
Because I think the verses follow a pattern (the lines that end with なら), is it correct to say that the first line この手で抱きしめて眠れるのなら means something like "If, by being held with these hands, you can sleep, then..."? As in she can sleep because he's holding her?

Hmm... I thought this meant "if I can sleep holding you with these hands..." Since there's no passive and no change of topic or subject, I interpret it as being the same person as the subject of both 抱きしめる and 眠れる. The "you can sleep version" I would expect to be more like この手で抱きしめられて眠れるのなら, although that would be vague as to who the person being held was.

Toritoribe · 27 Aug 2013

That's exactly my initial interpretation. But, I reread the lyrics again, I changed my thought to: この手で抱きしめて（君が）眠れるのなら might make more sense. This type of omission can be acceptable in lyrics.

Rinilex · 27 Aug 2013

That's an interesting point... it also fits with a theme Gackt likes to use in his songs now and then - if 眠る can also mean to die, as I've read - because he often likes use to 'falling asleep' as a double meaning for 'dying.' Usually there's some kanji play involved, though.

I assumed it was the girl who can sleep because of the pattern in the latter verses - it seems to be "if ___ can be done by ___" and if you keep that meaning but change it to him being the subject of 眠れる it doesn't really fit with the song/ second line to me. I'm still learning these things, though.

Glenn · 27 Aug 2013

Toritoribe said:
This type of omission can be acceptable in lyrics.

Well, that's not helpful (that practice, I mean).

Rinilex · 28 Aug 2013

Would ーたら here (笑い会えたら) be translated as 'if' or 'when'?

It tends to be used with もし if it's more 'if' than 'when', doesn't it? I've read that it's used for scenarios that are thought likely or expected to happen, hence the 'when', but since it's referring to being 生まれ変わる I don't know if that'd change such a situation to 'if.'

Glenn · 28 Aug 2013

I'd think "if". By the way, it's not 笑い合えたら?

Rinilex · 28 Aug 2013

Ah, my bad, it is indeed 合えたら*

Actually, I just noticed that. I've been translating it is 'can meet smiling' but if it's masu stem + 合う then that changes it a bit, doesn't it? I always overlook those two...

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