Sinocentrism

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caster51

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Sinocentrism and anti-Japan

China just entered national modern nationalism that South Korea
entered 20 years ago now.

Japan experienced the age of l modern nationalism from the latter half of the 19th century to the 20th century

Each country of east Asia is "Different age national group" to be alive as for a different age, and Japan has received "Attack in the past".

Their national modern nationalism is Sinocentrism of the potential idea.
It has the compulsion idea that the home country should be world's major powers.

Hu said in 2003 (mao's anniversary speech) "It is necessary to hold fast to the way of development as a world superpower to achieve a great revival of a socialist modernization and a Chinese race with peace. "

Korea looked up to Ming dynasty as a suzerain in the times of Ming and she came to hold "Sinocentrism" of person from whom only we succeed the
Chinese tradition when Ming dynasty was conquerd by Jurchens.

Korea,that is mini-Sinocentrism.

They treat the Japanese as a barbarian in Sinocentrism.....
because of mixed bath,cremation, marriage with same clan......hentai AV:p
Manners, behavioral standard that they were moralistic were different from Japanese manners
The concept of "礼etiquette " of the Confucianism that had the frame of Sinocentrism was different.
These show the lack of Japanese morality when seeing from them.
that is why they were calling the Japanese a barbarian.
The structure of leaving oneself in the high rank, and looking down on as a barbarian is done on their anti-Japan under the 礼.

The Yasukuni Shrine issue is a liturgical problem concerning the shrine that
enshrines the person who impairs them.
The history textbook issue was confronted to "Authentic history" that described their validity and morality and the barbarian did the impoliteness.
A problem with Japanese UＮ Security Council permanent member is going to same rank with it with "Chinese " is rude

Japan also experienced modern nationalism in shape "Imperial
country historical view". in the latter half of Edo period
The Confucianism person and the Japanese classical literature people of
Tokugawa looked for the cause of this peacefully and prosperity to the
national constitution in Japan.
Japan is confidence, that is, better than China because it is "Imperial country".
And, Japan positively absorbed the West civilization under the national constitution, and joined the world powers in military power and economic power since the Meiji era .

China and korea could not quickly absorb a modern civilization of the West, and the change did not advance.
then Japan despised to China and Korea.
In the pride of Japan, a historical fact, realistic, objective factor became a base......like imperial country of Mansei single lineage,millitary and econmic power. that is why japan does not need to insist it.

On the other hand, Sinocentrism is "Morality " based on "礼", their original standards.It is the extremely subjective one of leaving oneself high.

To prove it, China, South Korea, and North Korea assume it is morally inferior and attack Japan .....In "Comfort woman", "Invasion", and "Colonialism", etc.
They want to leave themselves in the high rank obstinately in the dimension of morality.

They never want to admit that they are having lacked something in sinocentrism .
If they do not have everything from the start, they are unpleasant.
If the home country is a center of the world, the civilization, they do not admit the thing of learning, and having taken something from another country easily.
Therefore, they insist origin developed in the home country

Therefore, South Korea insists that there are all origins in the home country.
Why they obstinately brandish the home country origin theory cannot be
understood.
It is the one coming from the necessity of their Sinocentrism .
........Japanese Eperor's root is from Korea
Kudara(百済) made japan. 万葉集 is written in korean language.....

Why are there excellent civilization and morality people
behind the barbarian economically?

The answer is easy.
It is "Invasion of Japan" and Japanese imperialism exploitations
of 36 years.

1)Japan is made virtual enemy indispensable to their modern
nationalism.
2)They satisfy national pride by looking down on Japan with a morally inferior country that doesn't know "礼" based on Sinocentrism.
３）Those economic backwardness is Japanese aggression and plunder , and the responsibility is imputed to Japan.They are appealing for legitimate of a present political power to the home country people by "Authentic history" that it is a present political power that expelled the Japan.

so, anti-japan ,It is a framework of their nations.


BTW ,How much is your level of such like Sinocentrism.
because I feel many forumer here have it so much.
 
Eh...sorry but I have to ask you where you read such propaganda stuff about what Hu Jintao said in 2003?

I've read and listened a lot speeches he made (from Western and Chinese sources both) and he never said such things or at least not in that kind.

What he said about China was, to keep modernizing, reforming, to catch up with other modern societies. Never did he say about inferior/superior things about any race.

Fact is, that many Chinese still do not understand how Japan become an imperialistic nation who wanted control of whole Asia (while Hitler wanted whole Europe and even more) and why there are still so many Japanese who still deny or play down the commited war crimes.
On the other side many Japanese do not understand why China is still not pleased about Japan and how the anti-japan sentiment could last that long.

Nationalism exists in todays China, there is no doubt, but that cannot be generalized. When you look at several postings about China in Japanese newspapers you will also see very negative things about China. Nationalism is also alive in Japan.
So actually it is both sides' nationalistic factions who stirr up the anti-China/ anti-Japan sentiment which makes all other normal citizens of both nations to suffer.

To fully understand the situation, we all must learn much more from the others and ourselves. Blaming others is always easy.
 
In my opinion extreme nationalism can lead a nation to very dangerous situations, take for instance Japan a country that suffered a major defeat by the allies and especially by the US, however they were able to stand on their feet again and rebuilt their country and their economy in a relatively short period of time. Thats why i think that the Japanese nation is remarkable.

On the contrary China a country that suffered many casualties during world war 2, did not achieve any significant technological achievements comparing to her size, population and geostrategic importance in the area , there are many reasons about that one of them is that China did not manage yet to financially become a superpower in southeastern area, because of her political system and communistic regime.

A perfect example is that many chinese citizens live in poverty and they dont have enough money even to buy the necessary goods for their survival.
On the contrary despite the bad economical situation Chinese government seems to invest alot of money in military technology, this fact indicates that China has expansionist tensions and may become a dangerous country for her neighbors in the future.

I understand the feelings of many Chinese about what happened during world war 2 and their considerable losses of innocent people due to the Japanese expansionism and i sympathize with them, however sticking into the past does not help to improve her relations with Japan and if we take under consideration that Japan was not the only responsible about anything bad that took place in China for instance as i have already said Mao killed alot more innocent people than the Japanese did.

The Chinese people should change orientation and start seriously thinking if they are really living in a democratic country because if they dont then we may see situations where China may become like Japan of world war 2 a militaristic agressive and expansionist power where people will suffer but the government will not do anything to soothe their suffering but it will convert its people to extreme nationalists and sooner or later Chinese people will beggin to blame their neighbors about anything wrong that happens in their country as the Germans did and Hitler took advantage of it in order to seize power and declare war to the other European countries.

Maybe China is going to be the follower of the Nazis in the future in terms of expansionism and militaristic agression , and become the same thing that they despise murderers of innocent people.
 
CBT1979 said:
On the other side many Japanese do not understand why China is still not pleased about Japan and how the anti-japan sentiment could last that long.
Click to expand...
In a nutshell, they made their military a fourth branch of their government, rather than subsumed into the others. Add to that a long history of samurai -elites and a warrior-ethos and you have a recipe for nationalistic expansion. The military basically held the rest of the government hostage for 30 or 40 years.

Dorian1977 said:
In my opinion extreme nationalism can lead a nation to very dangerous situations...
Click to expand...
Yep. I already posted in another thread about how nationalism is dangerous (as opposed to patriotism, which is healthy).

Anyway, China's still smarting over blows dealt to her a century or more ago. Ever since the Ming era, they've been turning inward. There has always been a "bamboo curtain" if you will, between China and the rest of the world since Zheng He's fleet was dismantled in the early 15th century. Europe forced her way into a nation that had become backward and primitive only because she had stayed put while the rest of the planet moved on.

It's actually quite tragic, but that's how things are. Not to sound like Victor Davis Hanson, but China's philosophers spent centuries contemplating the moon, whereas Western philosophers spent centuries getting us there. It is indicative of the direction they had chosen.

Now, instead of embracing Western democracy, they maintain socialist institutions and extend olive branches to the West with the hopes of appeasing them. They are essentially maintaining a fascist regime at home, and many of their people hate (or at least mistrust) anyone who is not Chinese.

History will do that sort of thing to a people.
 
1. about the military spendings:
China is investing more in military than in social care system?
May I remind you that China is spending around 1.5% of its annual GDP into military spendings. It is somewhere between 35-38 billion USD last year.
Japan is spending 1% of its annual GDP into military spendings which is around 42 billion USD last year.
In comparisson, the US spends much more than 2% of its GDP into military spendings totalling 440 billion USD in 2006.
Now you say that China is building a strong military instead of developping itself?
Don't forget that China's increasing military spending is due to its rising economy.
The reason why China is behind Japan and South Korea in techology was because of the cultural revolution and communism.
Since they integrated the capitalism since the 1980's things have changed step by step.
China today is like Japan in the 1960's where it anaylized and copied many technology from other countries and continue R&D.
2. about democracy in China:
It is not so that Chinese hate democracy, but the question for them is how to adopt democratic elements without risking a chaos like in Russia.
China has over 1.3 billion citizens with almost 60 ethnic groups who have been living under a one-party system. How could you imagine that those people will do good for their country when they suddenly have a big change in their regime?
The democratic progress will be slow in China but it has started. First example is, that Chinese citizens now elect their mayors which was not possible 5 years ago.
Democracy in China (and elsewhere) cannot be forced by outsiders, but Chinese must understand the value by themselves. The change must happen from the inside not from the outside.

They are essentially maintaining a fascist regime at home, and many of their people hate (or at least mistrust) anyone who is not Chinese.
History will do that sort of thing to a people.[/QUOTE]
Mistrust anyone who is not Chinese? Maybe. History has shown them that most foreigners only consider China as a huge land to be exploited (mostly in the 19th century).
By the way, even Chinese often do not trust Chinese.
Hate anyone who is not Chinese? That is not true. Most foreigners have no racial or international problem in China.
The big country that has a racism problem is Russia. A survey reported that around 60% of Russians do not like foreigners.
The ones who have a fascist regime is North Korea not China. If you want a prove, then you should visit both countries and compare them then.
North Korea could not only harm South Korea or Japan but also China and Russia with its illogical and provocative politics in the world stage.
 
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CBT1979 said:
The ones who have a fascist regime is North Korea not China. If you want a prove, then you should visit both countries and compare them then.
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I think you misunderstand me. I'm not attacking the Chinese or their mentality. If they are developing democracy at the local level, that is good. But for many Westerners, Tiennamen Square looms heavily in our minds. If they are abolishing communism, but are remaining beneath a statist and authoritarian government, then they are fascist still.

If North Korea is still communist, then it is not fascist. The two forces are fundamentally opposed to one another. Fascism is capitalist by nature and necessity. If China is becoming capitalist but still maintaining an autocratic government, they are fascist. Nevertheless, if they are changing, that is good.
 
So if the Tienanmen incident was so looming in the minds of the West, what do you think it is in Chinese minds and hearts?
The 6/4 incident in 1989 belongs to recent chapter of tragedy happened in China. It could be considered as the result of the incompetent capability of the Chinese police back then and the cold-hearted decision of the government and military to fire at the crowd which caused hundreds of dead and around 2000 of injured.
It was a very painful incident and turned out very bloody. But how much does the West know how the whole incident? The protests of the students started in 1988 and in the other big cities, they could have been persuaded by the local police to disband. But how come that in China's capitol it was out of control then?
The Western media mostly show bad news from China and much less any good news. Usually when we hear something from Asia in Western Media, it is usally either because a new leader has been elected or some bad things (like earthquakes, Typhoon, Tsunami, terror attacks, coup d'etat and violent clashes).

The only way to make China into a more open society, is having its people in communication with other countries people. The increase of abroad Chinese students is a good start so they can learn, how other societies work and think.
The next big change of China might not happen within the next 20 years because there are still many Chinese in the politics who belongs to the so-called "not know much about the rest of the world"-generation.

Of course there are many foreigners who really would like to help China becoming a more wealthy and open society. But in the same time there are also many of them who would love to see that nation implode. Not because they are Chinese but because they have the potential to become very influent in this 21st century. Something like this could also have happened to Japan, if it was a much bigger country and still having an economic growth of around 10%.
It could be called as jealousy but much more the policy of containing any potential rivals.
The current and only superpower are the USA and they surely would not like another nation to reach competetion level.
But this is a logical measure. IMO every superpower would do the same.
 
CBT1979 said:
The current and only superpower are the USA and they surely would not like another nation to reach competetion level.
But this is a logical measure. IMO every superpower would do the same.
Click to expand...

I will spare you a myriad quotes from Thucydides, and simply say that if China and other nations wish to become superpowers, there is little that the United States could do in this current era to stop them.

We do not fear the loss of our empire to the Europeans. Most Americans are highly critical of our empire in the first place. However, we do fear China, simply because of her bitterness towards the west and her determination to annex Taiwan. I have seen the Taiwanese and Chinese students at my institute nearly get into fistfights over Taiwan's independence.

Nevertheless, your opinion that "every superpower would do the same" is absolutely true. Look throughout human history. Every superpower has done the same.
 
yeah, when it comes to the issue of Re-unification and Taiwan independence you can definetly feel the anger and different minds between most Taiwanese and Chinese.
It pains me that both sides have such one-sided mind and sometimes even extreme too.
The China-Taiwan question is the result of bad political engagement of PRChina, Taiwan and the USA back in the 1970's when they failed to find a solution how the status of the Republic of China on Taiwan should be.
Nixon had the idea to offer both Chinas a seat in the UN security council which was somehow rejected and not been discussed further in the UN.
The US thought that the PRC and ROC would finally agree to a peaceful solution and did only said that it wishes no military invasion from the Mainland.
Back then the ROC/Taiwan also did not want to give up representing China. But things have changed since Taiwan became a Democracy in the late 1980's where many Taiwanese were seeking for Taiwan independence since they could not be the souvereign China. China did also not expected such move from Taiwan back in the 1970's too.
So todays governments of the involved nations have the difficult task to face that problem.
Both sides (especially Taiwan under the DPP) are not capable to talk with each other directly. Instead its citizens are continueing that political issue which causes only more disputes and anger. A sad story IMO.
The only thing the US can do is promote the diplomatic ways to solve that problem.
I cannot do much but only talk to many Taiwanese and mainland Chinese and persuade them to develop a supervision/oversight of the problem and not to fuel more hatred and rivalry than it already has. And pray that they both handle it diplomatically in the future instead of using force.
 
Quite honestly, as an Asian, I hope something is done with Caster's relentless and baseless attacks on Chinese and Koreans. I know this forum is open to ideas, but saying the same thing over and over without any information to back-up is lowering the quality of this forum.
 
I was wondering when someone was going to notice! :eek:

Then again, right-wing rants make my comments seem pretty mundane, so maybe it's good to have Caster51 around.🙂
 
Yeah, having Caster51 around isn't really that bad. He sparks contoversies and all of us can feel a bit better because we aren't that right-wing (or if some are, hey they can pat themselves on their back because they aren't alone anymore! a win-win situation!)
 
I do an easy explanation about sino-sphere of world view .
that is ,waorld center is china and china is only civilized nation
Other land is "Place where barbarous different ethnic groups live"
Additionally, it is an idea that it is a barbarian by how far is from China if it
says.

so ,china is #1 and korea is #2....
There is the one "Confucianism" as feature in it.......rei (窶氾ｧﾂ）
The 窶氾ｧ always makes an upper and lower relation.
It exists also in the society in Japanﾂ formality.
However, all the people have the idea of equal by the emperor's existence under him.

in exaggerated speaking ,The lower person is not permitted to disobey the upper person ( age ,gender and social position )

It is impolite, and disturbs peace and order if it sees from the Confucianism.

The principle if it says oppositely, The upper person is permitted no matter what the lower person is done by them .

"Apologize" is "Become it lower person. " in such an idea.
Therefore, they request an apology many times.

their idea Is
"you should admit and become lower. and get back the slave's original position and and you must follow us completely".....

what will happen if high-ranking country attacks the country of the subordinate position in Sinocentrism?

Korea doesn't complain though China invaded hundreds of times.
as for japan, to make a friendship is to become an equal partner.

they are difference.....
that is ,"we forgive The current impoliteness"
"therefore accompany as the slave."

If Japan doesn't become their slave, friendship with Japan that they consent is impossible even though how much Japan apologizes and helps them financially for the future .

I think there are many threads like "The white thinks colored races to be low" or " Sinocentrism" here.

I smelled there are many beliver of Sinocentrism here.:p
 
... yeah, right. The whole forum subscribes to sinocentrism, they're all "believers", you know. That's why it's called Jref and not Chinref, to lure gullible souls who just wanted to know something about Japan into the dark abyss that is the believe-system of sinocentrism.
 
caster51 said:
USA and China will fight in the future?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I honestly think the American people no longer have the stomach for protracted conflict. The number of anti-war protests, the gaining popularity of the Democratic party, and the deep ties of economic inter-dependency between the United States and China indicate to me that any conflict between the two nations is likely to be short, economically agonizing, and ultimately resulting in U.S. capitulation.

Good luck, Taiwan. If the situation in Iraq is any indicator, I have very little hope for Taiwanese sovereignty. I don't believe we'd be willing to suffer a sudden drop in luxury imports. In addition, the antiwar movement does not care if American soldiers are saving lives, protecting someone's sovereignty, or massacring innocent civilians; it only states that "war is no solution", and would rather see us sit idly by, weep, and send money that will be intercepted by enemy generals and fund their regimes, rather than actually fight and die to protect someone's freedoms, including their own.
 
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