R sounds

[Mycernius]

I'm having trouble with the japanese 'r' sound. I know what it is meant to sound like, but many Japanese programmes and films the 'r' sound varies. Is it a regional thing in which it is closer to the english 'r' and in other areas closer to the 'l' sound? My book and CD say err on the side of the 'l'. Is there a japanese equivalent to the Queens English? :?

 

[Buntaro]

The Japanese R is not like the English R at all. Usually it is a single-trilled R. Take the sound of the multiple-trilled R in Spanish, and use that sound, but single-trilled.

Sometimes the Japanese R is like the English D, as in the word "enryo". Pronounce it like "endyo", but with a soft D.

You asked, "Is it a regional thing in which it is closer to the english 'r' and in other areas closer to the 'l' sound?"

--> The english R and L sounds do not exist in Japanese.

"My book and CD say err on the side of the 'l'."

--> I disagree. Use the single-trilled R.

"Is there a japanese equivalent to the Queens English?"

--> No.

~~~

One diffeence is when the air does or does not stop. In the English R and L, the tongue does not seal the air off, and the air does not stop. In the Japanese R, the air stops. When I teach Japanese students, I always teach them that when the air stops, they have failed to make an L or R.

 

[Mycernius]

Thanks for the info. Must practice

 

[Giorgia_]

to not be precise, i suggest u use L sound for Japanese R.
ら り る れ ろ can be written as ra ri ru re ro, though in fact,
it is much closer to the sound of la li lu le lo.

when a japanese person is speaking in English,
they cannot pronounce R correctly but
they can pronounce L sound easily.
this is because they have a similar sound in their own language.

 

[cacawate]

Ad for 'enryo' I would actually say try to pronounce it more like 'en-lee-yoh' with the 'lee-yoh' sound being pronounced very quickly like 'lyoh'. When I ask my friend to pronounce things very slowly the r/ls came out different each time. For example, Taberareru sounded more to me like 'tah-beh-lah-r*eh-r*oo'.

The best method of course is to practice the r/l. practice for like two weeks and you should have it pretty much mastered.

 

[okaeri_man]

it's important to think about what your tounge's doing. say la in english and pay careful attention to what your tounge does. it starts touching the back of your front teeth no? now try when you say the english ra sound. it starts off at the back of you mouth but not touching the roof, and ends up somewhere in the middle of your mouth.

for the japanese ra, start you tounge in a similar fashion to the english la, but NOT touching your front teeth. start it a good 0.5-1.0 cm back. it will take some getting used to at first, but try saying ra, and you tounge should end up in the middle of your mouth somewhere, similar to where it ended up for the english ra.

well, not the best explanation in the world, but good luck

 

[Kamisama]

it's like a combination of l and r, that way you can pass it off. try saying lace and race then combining the l and r.

 

[Damicci]

to not be precise, i suggest u use L sound for Japanese R.
ら り る れ ろ can be written as ra ri ru re ro, though in fact,
it is much closer to the sound of la li lu le lo.

when a japanese person is speaking in English,
they cannot pronounce R correctly but
they can pronounce L sound easily.
this is because they have a similar sound in their own language.

I kinda disagree with this. the single trilled r sound is exactly the sound you are looking for when pronouncing japanese R. My JP friends have a hard time pronouncing L b/c it is in fact NOT part of their language. Most of the time there L sounds like a single trilled R so they pronounce words like Run and Lung and it will sound the same. I think your info is a lil backwards. :?

for the japanese ra, start you tounge in a similar fashion to the english la, but NOT touching your front teeth. start it a good 0.5-1.0 cm back. it will take some getting used to at first, but try saying ra, and you tongue should end up in the middle of your mouth somewhere, similar to where it ended up for the english ra.

THis is a good example i have used the same methods to help my friends pronounce L sounds in a more English manner than broken engrish manner.
It is definitely about tongue positioning to get the sound right. if you can roll R's like in spanish you should have no problem with Japanese R like sound.

 

[Apple Bomb]

What I would like to know is how to roll your "r"s so I can talk like a cranky yakuza. Are there any tips for learning this? Because I am hopeless.

 

[Damicci]

What I would like to know is how to roll your "r"s so I can talk like a cranky yakuza. Are there any tips for learning this? Because I am hopeless.

Well best way i can explain it is to let your tounge barely press against the roof of your mouth about a 1/4 inch from the back of your teeth and when you prounce the R the should be a vibration of air passing through that makes your tounge vibrate per say to create the rolling R sound. As a kid i used to do it ALL the time when imitating motor sound from cars and airplanes. 26 years of practice lol.

 

[Buntaro]

Damicci has the idea. Practice saying vrrrrrrrrrrrrrroom!

(Buntaro takes his favorite toy car and runs all around the house with it....)

 

[lexico]

Damicci has the idea. Practice saying vrrrrrrrrrrrrrroom!

(Buntaro takes his favorite toy car and runs all around the house with it....)

Heehee...this brings back some memories of childhood.
I used to play the Shibboleth game in which I'd give a mutlple-trilled rrrrrrr and ask my friends to immitate.
Hey, it's a human sound, so you should be able to do it, too.
To his frustration, it could not be imitated....heehee!

I think Buntaro and Damichi's trill excercises are good ways to get the tongue muscles acquainted to the position. One additional trick at the medial postition is to remove the tension towards the end of the tongue which is quite important for producing the desired trill. After a little practice with the machine gun trill, try the fine tuned trills by doing the single-shot, double-shot, triple-shot,...(actually in the reverse order from long to short)

Then try RRRRRRRRRA-DI-O, RRA-DI-O, and finally RA-DI-O.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are familiar with the single-flap sound in American English, I think that also helps as a sound very close to the Japanese R.
The only difference is that the Ameringlish flap sound always comes in the intervocallic postition, that is either between two vowels or a vowel and a syllabic l (an l acting as a vowel; and sometimes a syllabic n; and others), whereas the Japanese R comes as the initial consonant in a syllable.

1. flaps between vowels; -d- -dd- -t- -tt- (second vowel is unstressed)
eg. radio, body, buddy, shooter, butter, bidder, bitter

2. flaps after a vowel, before an l:
eg. ladle, puddle, subtle, bottle

3. flaps in other intervocallic positions:
eg. birdie, curdle, hurdle, murder, mirtle, forbidden

Enjoy practicing. TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR......... ^__^

 

[Giorgia_]

I kinda disagree with this. the single trilled r sound is exactly the sound you are looking for when pronouncing japanese R. My JP friends have a hard time pronouncing L b/c it is in fact NOT part of thier language. Most of the time there L sounds like a single trilled R so they pronounce words like Run and Lung and it will sound the same. I think your info is a lil backwards. :?

Isn't it because they cannot pronounce R sound correctly?
R and L sounds are far different in english
and japanese R is much closer (not exactly the same) to the L sound in English.
(if u use english R sound in any Japanese words,
people would immediately recognise that u're from english-speaking region.)
I want to say sorry if i misled people.... :sorry:

 

[Leroy_Brown]

when a japanese person is speaking in English,
they cannot pronounce R correctly but
they can pronounce L sound easily.
this is because they have a similar sound in their own language.

Not so. They can pronounce neither correctly.

Kamisama is right. What they end up saying is a combination. They don't place the tip of the tongue under the front teeth in order to make the proper L sound.

I always love to get them to try to say "squirrel" or "parallel park"

 

[Damicci]

Try lollipop it's a hoot.

Lexico you hit it on the head again. The english flap is probably the best sound to compare to a Japanese R.
Say this a few times:
Bitter Butter makes the Better Batter taste Bitter. <-- honestly this is a good excersise to get you aclimated to the sound.

or was it: Bitter Butter makes the Better Batter Bitter

 

[lexico]

I love those tongue twisters--I once used several pages of those for high school students. Those are serious stuff!!
Anyway, there's some interesting info about how Japanese native speakers deal with the English L, kind of the opposite situation; hehe English L