Quick question about the use of "於"

[Reiku]

Sorry to ask, but I've checked every book and online resource I have access to trying to figure this out and my brain is about to melt.

What I am wondering about it the use of "於", when it is used as the word "in". I'm trying to figure out how it is positioned in the sentence.

For example: Using English grammar, it would be "the plug is 於 the socket"--but I don't know how the words would be positioned according to nihongo grammar.

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

 

[epigene]

Hi Reiku,

You might consider your question quick but it's not, actually...

The kanji 於 is not used alone and does not always mean "in." It is used always (I think) as part of the phrase (collocation):
～に於（お）いて

One usage of the phrase is to express the location or time during which an action is taken, such as:
東京に於いて会議を行う。 (The meeting will be held in Tokyo.)
江戸時代に於いて流行した病気。(Disease that spread widely in/during the Edo Period)

The other usage is similar to the way you use "regarding," "concerning," etc.
企業経営に於いて難しい課題 (Tough issues [to be addressed] in business management)

As you can see in the examples, the phrase is not used on colloquial speech but more in formal speech or writing. So, your example about plugs and sockets does not apply. :sorry:

Also, you don't always have to use the kanji 於 in writing the phrase. It is widely acceptable to write in hiragana as ～において .

Hope it helps a bit!

 

[lexico]

the use of "於", when it is used as the word "in". I'm trying to figure out how it is positioned in the sentence...
For example: Using English grammar, it would be "the plug is 於 the socket"--but I don't know how the words would be positioned according to nihongo grammar.

I am not sure about nihongo grammar, but in classical Chinese grammar "於" is primarily used as a preposition of place, time, and comparison. The position is before the noun like in English.

1) place: at ~, in ~, on ~
2) time: at ~
3) comparison: than ~

I believe the Japanese particles that correspond to the kanji "於" are post-positional, that is coming after the noun.

 

[epigene]

I am not sure about nihogo grammar, but in classical Chinese grammar "於" is primarily used as a preposition of place, time, and comparison. The position is before the noun.

1) place: at ~, in ~, on ~
2) time: at ~
3) comparison: than ~

I believe Japanese particles that correspond to the kanji "於" are post-positional, that is coming after the noun.

Yes, the use of the kanji is similar, as you pointed out, because it had been borrowed from the Chinese classics. It is post-positional, and the usage is also identical in origin, although it has been adopted in usage only in the phrase "... ni oite." It is because of this borrowing from the classics that it is not common in everyday speech. Use of this phrase instead of で or に is found mostly in formal business correspondence and documents (including contracts), academic papers, etc.

To Reiku:
If you want to create a sentence about putting the plug in a socket, the sentence would be:
プラグをコンセントに差し込む。 (Puragu wo konsento ni sashikomu.)
You cannot use ～において in this case, as I explained here.

 

[Reiku]

Ah, thanks for the help--I will go over this in more detail when I have time...

(I'm at an internet cafe right now)

...to address a few of the replies:

I do know that that symbol has other meanings, but it was this particular meaning I was interested in. Also, the example of the plug and socket was just the first thing I could think of as an explanation of what I was asking. (English is a clumsy language to ask grammar questions in!)

Actually, I was trying to see if my last name could be made to mean anything when translated into English.

Looking the syllables up on Jim Breen's site, I noticed that they could form a series of words that might almost be translatable--but I didn't know if the order was correct.

Basically I was thinking of writing my name with these characters as sort of a joke, but I wanted to see if I could translate it myself rather than just ask here.

(And also avoid the possibility that it could be translated as something embarrassing)

Already it seems "Reiku" can have an all-too appropriate meaning--given my tendency to be long winded at times.

Anyway, thanks for the help...