Questions on a couple useful expressions

[nhk9]

Hi everybody

I am wondering if I have the following correct. The sentences are ones that I use quite frequently in English, but I am not sure about their Japanese counterparts.

- I am wondering if the bolded parts (and other parts) are natural sounding, if grammatically correct.
- I am not sure if I can use "sono" in the second sentence that way, although I have seen an article that used it that way (ie way of avoiding saying the long bunpouhyougen again).

I try to take notes of a few words per episode of drama
ドラマの一回につき数個の単語をメモしようとしている。

It is said that Korean grammar is about 80% similar to Japanese grammar
韓国語の文法表現って、日本語のそのと8割がた似ているといわれる。

 

[undrentide]

I try to take notes of a few words per episode of drama
ドラマの一回につき数個の単語をメモしようとしている。

１回につき数個の単語 sounds natural and is correct, though の after ドラマ is unnecessary.
e.g.
りんご５個につき100円の値引きする
作業2時間につき15分の休憩をとる
学生ひとりにつき5,000円の費用がかかる

It is said that Korean grammar is about 80% similar to Japanese grammar
韓国語の文法表現って、日本語のそのと8割がた似ているといわれる。

８割方（はちわりがた） is also correct.
方（かた） means about, approximately.

日本語のそのと似ている is incorrect. You can say 日本語のそれと似ている, however, it is something called 翻訳調（ほんやくちょう）. It is a literal translation of "that of Japanese" or "Japanese one" which does not really exist in Japanese thus does not really sound natural.

To sound natural, you should
1. repeat the same word (here 日本語の文法表現と)
2. replace the word with の (日本語のと)
or simply
3. omit the word (日本語と)

By the way, style of the first part and that of the latter part of this sentence do not really match...
韓国語の文法表現は、日本語と８割がた似ているといわれる。
(formal statement)
韓国語の文法表現って、日本語と８割がた似ているらしいね。
(casual, conversational)

 

[nhk9]

undrentide-san, thanks very much for the detailed explanation. I remember seeing that kind of "honyakucho" expression in a text at school. When I asked my sensei about it she said that it worked perfectly fine (although she didn't elaborate on whether it was natural Japanese or not). I guess I will have to pay more attention to those subtle details.

 

[Elizabeth]

By the way, style of the first part and that of the latter part of this sentence do not really match...
韓国語の文法表現は、日本語と８割がた似ているといわれる。
(formal statement)
韓国語の文法表現って、日本語と８割がた似ているらしいね。
(casual, conversational)

Wouldn't it be more natural also to drop the 表現 part and simply leave the expression at 韓国語文法、日本語文法 ?

「表現」の部分を省いて、ちょっと自然な感じで「Korean grammar, Japanese grammar」
という意味となりますか？

 

[undrentide]

Wouldn't it be more natural also to drop the 表現 part and simply leave the expression at 韓国語文法、日本語文法 ?
「表現」の部分を省いて、ちょっと自然な感じで「Korean grammar, Japanese grammar」
という意味となりますか？

To be honest, I'm not sure what exactly nhk9 san wants to say by the word 文法表現 and just left it as it was.
If it means Korean/Japanese grammar, yes, it would be better to drop 表現.
韓国語文法, 日本語文法 are correct.
In case of conversation, or casual statement, I might say 韓国語の文法, 日本語の文法 as without の they sound rather formal - for me, at least.

 

[nhk9]

I was trying to say the 'grammatical expressions of japanese' etc. Maybe I should have used "bunpou teki na hyougen"... or perhaps I should just omit the hyougen entirely like you suggested...

 

[Glenn]

I wonder if you mean grammatical patterns (表現文型).

 

[Mike Cash]

Rather than 数個の, how about いくつか？

 

[Elizabeth]

Rather than 数個の, how about いくつか？

なるべくしシンプルでわかりやすい文にしましょうね。
I was wondering also about "memo wo toru" instead of "suru" or "suru you ni shite imasu" (I am making a point of/making an effort to do....) instead of shiyou to shite iru" (or whichever verb you end up with). Would changes like these suggest a real difference in tone and style ?

 

[Mike Cash]

なるべくしシンプルでわかりやすい文にしましょうね。

But sometimes it is hard to know how to simplify.

I remember helping a fellow on irc once who wanted to say "If you'll tell me what time your flight arrives I'll come to the airport and pick you up".

His rendition: "あなたの飛行機が何時に到着するかを教えてくれれば私が空港に迎えにいきます"....or something very similar to that.

My suggested version: "お迎えは？"

Functionally, it covered every bit of the same ground as his version.

I was wondering also about "memo wo toru" instead of "suru" or "suru you ni shite imasu" (I am making a point of/making an effort to do....) instead of shiyou to shite iru" (or whichever verb you end up with). Would changes like these suggest a real difference in tone and style ?

Certainly. The latter intimates that one is in the middle of a one-time thing and/or that it may not be going so well. The former indicates a matter of ongoing policy. BIANANS.

 

[undrentide]

I was wondering also about "memo wo toru" instead of "suru" or "suru you ni shite imasu" (I am making a point of/making an effort to do....) instead of shiyou to shite iru" (or whichever verb you end up with). Would changes like these suggest a real difference in tone and style ?

Taking "memo wo toru" as an exmaple,

"memo wo toru you ni shiteiru": I make it a rule to take a note
"memo wo torou to shite iru": (1) I'm about to take a note (2) I'm trying to take a note

 

[Elizabeth]

Functionally, it covered every bit of the same ground as his version.
Certainly. The latter intimates that one is in the middle of a one-time thing and/or that it may not be going so well. The former indicates a matter of ongoing policy. BIANANS.

I could have worded it better since that would have been my answer exactly, what I wasn't sure about was the certainty of the may not be going so well part.