Passive problems

[KrazyKat]

彼らは、ここから先へは、灯りを持って入ることを許さ れなかったようだ。 みんなここで、光源を捨てねば、 先へは行かれなかったのだ。


I'm having a bit of trouble with these sentences. The first one looks like it is the 'adversive passive', but I just wanted to check that. The second is giving me more trouble. I would guess that this is the adversive passive too, but I'm not at all sure. Using either ikenakatta or ikaserarenakatta would make more sense to me, but what is the difference between this and those here?

thanks again for any help.

 

[epigene]

彼らは、ここから先へは、灯りを持って入ることを許さ れなかったようだ。 みんなここで、光源を捨てねば、 先へは行かれなかったのだ。


I'm having a bit of trouble with these sentences. The first one looks like it is the 'adversive passive', but I just wanted to check that. The second is giving me more trouble. I would guess that this is the adversive passive too, but I'm not at all sure. Using either ikenakatta or ikaserarenakatta would make more sense to me, but what is the difference between this and those here?

thanks again for any help.

I'm not trained in Japanese grammar and linguistics and therefore may not be qualified but will just post my impression on your questions.

If "adversive passive" means passive voice expressing dissatisfaction, I don't think it applies to "yurusu/yurusareru" since the verb in the passive/negative "yurusarenai" intrinsically suggests a result that is dissatisfactory--or maybe it is... :?

As for "ikarenakatta," I think "ikenakatta" is correct and essentially identical in meaning. (So, it's not adversive passive??) "Ikaserarenakatta" is not correct here, because it suggests presence of an external entity that forbids/blocks going, while the sentence does not suggest such a thing.

Regarding "ikarenakatta" and "ikenakatta," I regard them synonymous and think the former slightly subdued (can't think of a better word) compared to the latter which to me is much too blunt. But, this may be because I'm a Kanagawa Prefecture-born Tokyo citizen... Some people from other parts of Japan may find this strange, but with various Japanese dialects mixing through the spread of TV and radio, it probably is not strange to many people any longer. (I'm rambling on this because I've known someone who thought this strange.)

Just my two yen!

 

[wakaP]

「日本語の受動文および関連する現象」というタイトルの資料です。