About the passive tense

[Kiwano]

Hi everybody!

I'm learning the saseru/seru and -te iru/aru thing. I't seems to be vital to be able to distinguish transitive verb from intransitive ones. Maybe it's because Swedish doesn't have this difference. Of course, the intransitive/transitive thing exists in Swedish, but it doesn't affect the way you inflict the verb, hence I have never noticed it or paid attention to it. Just like the wa/ga/wo particles, we do have subjects and objects and so on, but it's nothing you have to know anything about in order to make correct sentences.

So, is there any way to know if a verb is transitive or intransitive? Any advice would be appreciated, because I'm completely lost!

 

[beluga]

There are a few but not fool proof ways to know if they are transitive(tadoushi) or intransitive(jidoushi) verbs

Method 1
========
tadoushi verbs usually ends with -eru. However, they are some exceptions too. Some that I can think of are, kesu/kieru (tr/intr) and dasu/deru (tr/intr)

Method 2
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Particle prior to transitive verbs is usually wo. Whereas intransitive is ga,he,mo, etc. This method doesn't work if you are the one trying to decide what is the particle to use in the first place.

Method 3
========
If the word is in a continuous form, arimasu is used for transitive and imasu is used for intransitive.
ex doa ga shimatte imasu
doa ga shimete arimasu

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by beluga
There are a few but not foolproof ways to know if they are transitive (tadoushi) or intransitive (jidoushi) verbs

Method 1
========
tadoushi verbs usually end with -eru. However, they are some exceptions too. Some that I can think of are, kesu/kieru (tr/intr) and dasu/deru (tr/intr)

If you think of Japanese as having 3 classes of verbs :

Class 1 covers verbs ending in of u (au), ku (kaku), su (hanasu), tsu (tatsu), nu (shinu), mu (yomu) some ru (noru), gu (oyogu), bu (yobu). These are the ones in which the passive tense becomes a "reru" ending (awareru, kakareru, tanasareru, tatareru, yomareru, noraseru, oyagareru, yobareru ). The transitive-->intransitive for eru becomes aru or u (tomeru, tomaru/ageru, agaru/shimeru/shimaru etc) this is probably the largest grouping) ); su becomes ru or reru (mawasu, mawaru/naosu, naoru).

Class 2 covers "eru," "iru" and "aru" verbs such as taberu, miru, okiru, neru etc and those become passive through "rareru." Transitive-->intransitive for u, asu, yasu becomes eru (dasu, deru/kawasu, kawreru) ; su, osu becomes iru (okosu, okiru/otosu, ochiru) ; or the passive applies such as taberareru or kirareru.

And in Class 3, the two irregulars "suru" and "kuru" (which doesn't have a transitive form) "suru" becomes "sureru."

Some exceptions are kesu to kieru (not keru or kereru) and I believe "hiraku" is the same for "open" and "it is open."


I have noticed over the years, however, that the transitive-intransitive dichotomy is much more widely used in Japanese for what in English is thought of as active-passive pairs (kimashita vs. kimerareta or shimatta vs. shimeraremashita), so it is definitely a good and logical (if confusing enough....) place to start.

 

[Elizabeth]

Method 3
========
If the word is in a continuous form, arimasu is used for transitive and imasu is used for intransitive.
ex doa ga shimatte imasu
doa ga shimete arimasu

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks [/B]

It isn't wrong, but just to make sure these meanings are clear to everyone. We can translate the first one as "the door is shut" the second as "The door has been shut (by someone) and is shut now." You can also use "wo" with this construction (doa wo shimete aru) to refer to the speaker as the one who most likely did the shutting. Similiarly "doa wo akete aru" or "doa wo akete okimashita (essentially as close in Japanese as you get to the present perfect tense in English : I opened the door and I am keeping the door open).
Of course there is also "wo dashite aru" (It has been put out), "wo okoshite aru" (I have been awakened), "wo hajimete aru" (it has been started) and so on all for ongoing actions implicitly read as initiated by the speaker.