Paranormal Abilities

[Tsuyoiko]

I've started a new thread on this because it seems an interesting topic to discuss, and I didn't want to post offtopic in the thread that the following posts come from:

I can give an example to prove that the etheric world exists - my father can move the clouds. My father can make it stop raining temporarily. I have this gift to a smaller extent.

While I have no doubt that you have what seem to you very good reasons to believe this, I find it very hard to accept. Please understand that I mean no disrespect at all when I say that I can't accept it without proof.

Prove it to me like this:
To show that his ability is repeatable:
-Every single day for a year, have your father spend eight hours moving clouds. He can have 25 days holiday ;-)
-On each of those days, he must indicate each cloud he is going to move, and the new position it will occupy in the sky;
-On the occasions that it rains, your father must specify when the rain will stop and for how long;
To show that he has control of the clouds' movement:
-For each cloud he moves he must explain the mechanism by which he caused it to move;
-This mechanism must be detectable and measurable, or at least logically demonstrable;
-An independent observer will then specify when the rain will stop and for how long, and your father will try to meet these requirements.

These are just a few of the ideas I have about what would convince me of your father's ability. If he can meet these requirements more than 50% of the time, then his ability will be worthy of further study.

I can also make pain go away by focusing my energy in one area.

I can do that too, to a small extent. It's probably due to placebo effect.

What do you consider to be paranormal? Do such abilities exist at all? Do you claim paranormal abilities, or at least believe in them? What would convince you of the existence of the paranormal?

 

[Sarapva]

I've also heard stories of people who could heal animals that were bleeding just by a mind energy. I've never seen it, but I do believe in it because there are so many wild and astonishing things in the world and it would seem more likely that the paranormal exists than that it doesn't.

I've also heard that people can move clouds by concentrating on them, or move other physical objects. I've never seen it myself, but I believe the human mind is a very powerful thing and could probably do those things with practice.

 

[Rioneru]

Wanted: Test Subject

A few of my abilities:
~ See spirits (usually transparent, shadows, or as mere "energy shapes")
~ Sense positive/negative energy
~ Communicate with animals
~ Forsee events (including things I have no way of knowing in past/present)

Strange thing is, ever since I was about 8-9 and insisted on creating my own quija board against my mother's wishes, I've been able to see spirits. On both sides of my family, things like astral projection, future seeing, and interaction with spirits are possible. I would say one of the most outstanding instances was during a time I was speaking to an ex over the phone. A spirit of a man had come through my door shaking his hand very fast at me as if to say, "No, no, no!". Seconds later, after being frozen in fear (a usual reaction of mine since it never gets any easier), my ex told me of the death of a famous R&B singer, Aaliyah. This man I saw, was on the plane and I had never seen him before in my life.

As for positive/negative energy, here's a thought. Have you ever been sleeping or known someone who has been sleeping and suddenly wake up from being stared at by someone at the door? I don't mean someone who sleeps light, or wakes from a stirring sound, just waking from the energy let out from someone who is intensely focused. May sound odd, but it happens. Thats somewhat what I mean by "energy".

Few years ago, I found that I not only had a knack for imitating sounds and voices, but animal sounds as well. I've only tried with domesticated animals, but in thinking of what I want to communicate, making direct eye contact with an animal and varying the pitch of a bark, meow, whatever, I've been able to calm, direct, and send animals into frenzies. Its a great "party favor" amongst friends of mine.

Forseeing events...one last example: Usually I am "forewarned" in the form of dreams/nightmares. I kept having a reoccuring dream of my ex speeding on a highway and nearly getting into an accident. Now, she had just got a new car, but I had no idea what it looked like inside or what it was since she was in Texas at the time (I being in California). In the first person, I was able to see the speed she was going and how her entire dashboard appeared, in addition to what freeway she was on. I didn't want to tell her for fear of spooking her or being scoffed at.

She later called me the next day to tell me she had nearly got in an accident on the very road. I asked her to explain it to me, and it was all accurate. I then told her about the dream and after going over the look of her car's interior, she became a little weirded out, but amazed nonetheless.

All of these come at random times and to varying degrees. For every person I encounter that believes these things wholeheartedly, I have that many more that are skeptical and insist on "testing". I simply don't care enough to prove much of anything to anyone else, only to end up on the table of some doctor or psychiatrist. No thanks.

They come in handy when I need them and thats that.

 

[Mars Man]

This is a subject which, I am afraid, and am willing to admit, pure science is rather reluctant, in some ways, to take notice of. Some research has been and appears to continue to be done in the area of 'just what is happening,' but it has a long way to go; it seems.

One drawback to those who push for greater scientific acceptance of the paranormal is that, for what I have come across so far, too many firstly insist that sound science is at fault in some areas where it is quite clearly not so, and too many are too overly 'certain-religious-belief-system' predisposed from the very beginning to allow room for the falacy that entails.

Another thing, as Tsyoiko has pointed out, is that too much of the experience somehow conveniently remains just outside the realm of falsification. I do hope, however, that as time goes on, those in the science fields will be more willing to look into some (and notice the word some) of areas of paranormal, and see if we can find out more about any reality of it--whether internal only, or external.

I would tend to doubt that a human can alter external physical objects (and I'm not talking about bending spoons)--such as moving clouds or causing it to rain--but I would not so easily discard the idea of the 'singularity' of time--all is present--or dimensions which otherwise are not so readily picked up by the brain. But what is it all? That will take some great long time to even get close to understanding, I'm sure.

Now seeing the future in some way, I say, is no big deal--unless it were an intentional and directed focused act to do so, available to a person at any time under any circumstances, and producing correct results each and every time. I have even seen the future in dreams a number of times. (of course I can only say that because what I saw in those dreams, the people I saw involved in the dreams and recognized, and such, happened that way--otherwise it would not have become the future, you see) At the moment, I take that as being because there is no future, nor past, but only entropy 'unraveling,' as it were.

As for what can be said about any 'spiritual' world, there is extremely little factual information--just a claim to have seen what one would define as a 'spirit'--whatever that may be--need not mean anything more than that a person has experienced a vision of sorts, the reality behind which that one actually knows nothing. (I think some of you will remember the Ghost Stories thread)

All in all, therefore, I am familiar with some perceptons, events, and phenomena which cannot be explained at the moment, things that I would put in the paranormal area, and yet am also aware of some misapplications and misguided efforts to explain some elements of these. I do wish pure science would be a little more willing to consider some of the ones that have yet to be tested, and some which having been tested to some degree, be looked at, and efforts made to reproduce the results more.

 

[Sarapva]

I forgot to mention that a friend says she can see people's "auras" - the energy around them. She can tell if they're happy or angry, etc. by the color of the aura.

My grandmother used to dream of the future. I heard lots of stories (which, even though retold quite a few times, I'm sure are true) of how she'd have a dream and later the exact thing she dreamed would happen, even in all the detail (like what someone was wearing).

 

[Chi65]

Many things only appear to be unexplainable, because the senses for this are mostly forlorn, but they are well and alive and can even be trained.

For example, if you see a leaf, coming out of the earth, you can very well say, what plant will grow out of this, via experience, at least, if you are a gardener. In this sense, a gardener can forsee the future.

Our minds work the same way, if we are sensible enough, to store experiences and signs, we can in fact forsee a lot. And dreams, who are directly connected with our subcinsciousness, simply search in these deep layers to find the according pieces to tell us the new "growth" via already given informations.

It takes from former inputs, thats why completely new things are kind of "talked around" with symbols in our dreams, but explain themselves later. The next dream in that direction may accordingly be more correct. Experiences pile up, like tools.

Of course, whoever is close to you, be it a new person, that somehow "touches" you deeply, will raise similar dreams in you. You have gotten a lot of informations, often already via meeting, but a touch or a song can also do, like a whole invisible pattern transferred.

If you are a synaesthete, this may even be more intense, and give you even more visuals, if that part of you is developped, which is said to be there since you are born, but channelled into behaviour-patterns, so to say. Yet, some can keep the whole door open and thus get much more than just the surfaces. A fine storage indeed, that connects much faster, than in limited perceptive brains. Not so new any more nowadays.

As for auras, we often had this theme in our synnie-circles, it very much seems to be connected with synaesthesia, as many say now, because you relate certain feelings to colours, for example(not all do, but some). You could as well have sound or smell or taste auras, by the way. Even tactile ones. Or all together or only parts, depends on you and how much you are trained or let be the way you were, when newborn.

Thus it appears to be genetic, whereas in such families, the parents naturally transfer their own abilities and communication forms, and thus you also "get it" or can keep it.
(thats, how I understand this, with no problems so far)

As for ghosts, thats anything not materialised to be touched directly, but its nevertheless there in many phases, be it in the air, and a smell can already make someone "see", the same way, such visual auras can be "seen". We often say, oh, thats a very "thick air" in the room, when tensions arise. Yes, if there are some who really have trouble or have a fight etc., they do not only produce tensions, but also special very real smells! This can even be measured.
Now, a sensitive person will very well be able to say, oops, there is something "in the air" and his/her brain will form according pictures.

These may be illusionary, but appear to be very real for that one, same as for example numbers can appear in certain colours, regularly, or music can wake up certain pictures. I can often see them on the wall, if there is a neutral one, for example. A painter would say, that for him/her it often is like rubbing a coin through via a layer of paper, like a frottage. "Its already there", as also many composers say.

So, if you have a neutral paper, the painting appears by itself, if you are open enough and all you have to do, is following the signs, that you already "see". Same as your dreams do, as explained above, only more real for all to see in the end. Yet a "ghost" before you "fixed" it.

What often happens next is, that the fixed "ghost" materialises, a dream comes true in a way. There are according films from old times, I think it was early Bunuel or the Dadaists, or that time. Someone has a vision(wish), makes a sculpture, then the sculpture becomes alive and then dissappears again(in which case it leaves "traces", that also are ghostlike(phantoms)). Something like that.

Happens all the time. Your selective consciousness does the rest to lead you to your "dreamreality" in many cases. No logical plan can work that perfect nor fast. Yet it works perfectly well. Well, the vision(ghost) is already there, any way you are able to feel it. If you fear, you will most probably see according monsters, if you are empty within, you may get surprises from your unconsciousness, if you already have a clear inner picture, the ghost will often "manifest" accordingly, and you may say, you have seen it before. You HAVE!

Apart from that, time is not what we think, and we are connected with many worlds and times, because everyone is one (thats the real multiverse in my understanding). We accordingly interact permanently forwards and backwards (memory is backwords, but learning from it and getting new ideas is forwards, at least, it appears to be so for us, according to our growth).

Some say, when you are born, you are already dieing, thats also right, it depends on your point of view.

Thus, its all kind of circular, but in endless variations, and you can very well get according finer informations, from experiences.

I had many such dreams, even high alerts about people, and was always right, and often even painted them before, plus details of what was or will be around. Some were informed before by me, some not, but in all cases, it happened as forseen.
Thus I did not really cause the events, as some might say. I only saw them. This can be very hard, if its an accident or even death, I cannot just shake it off, it is first, as if it also happens to me (well, empathy and the mirror neurons etc., thats the way, you "pick it up". Its "in the air", ghostlike once more), even if its not me then. but since I am "inter ested", why ever, I am into it.

I often had the feeling, I must give something to someone, but by searching for the gift, I kind of "was" that one. In such a case I was always right and the receiver very surprise about how I could have known. Well, I got the according finer messages and Bingo!

This also runs under being able to "go through the wall", thus knowing things, others maybe hiding, and therefor some people fear you.
But you do not get everything, only what is somewhat related to you, thus most such fears are very unreasonable, but can make the other one pretty "uneasy".

Just a few thoughts and experiences to some former points. You see, I agree completely into many experiences, but hesitate to call them Paranormal. To me, its all very normal and a natural part of life.

And I hope, it will be seen like this in the future. Chances are good at the moment!
What I reject, is too much mystical wishi washi. . .that does not help our kind.
A good relaxed laugh would do on the other side. ☝

 

[Rioneru]

I hope in years to come I will be able to convey my experiences in such a precise an eloquent way as you have, Chi65! ^_^ Thank you for bringing in the more scientifically credible side (terminology, and all) to what I was trying to say above.

 

[Chi65]

I hope in years to come I will be able to convey my experiences in such a precise an eloquent way as you have, Chi65! ^_^ Thank you for bringing in the more scientifically credible side (terminology, and all) to what I was trying to say above.

You are very welcome! And feel free to contact me, if you like. Consider myself to be humble with particularly english words, since I am German.
But I happened to be trained in a science forum, defending my experiences and then getting supports, hehe. Thats why I know a lot more from the scientific actual point plus how at least to try to approach that theme seriously.
It is very well also of interest for not so fanatic but rather curious scientists nowadays. Don't be shy thus. I also have several according links in store.
;-)

I particularly love your animal examples, I also have lots of similar stories and may describe a close encouner with a scottish mama goat at times, a perfect eye to eye-contact, by the way. . .she was after something, but not what one thinks first. . .

 

[scorpion da black]

i have always been a logical person...although i believe in God and though i find it hard to believe in paranormal abilities...i still believe in some !

i don't know if there is some similarity with other belief systems..but we have what is called Ru'ia "vision" ...we believe it is strong with some people and their descendants and some don't have it t all..
vision is when some one sees a dream that actually is part of the future..or a dream that has an explanation, an interpretation...we in my believe system have an explanation provided by prophet Muhammed for almost every dream a man can possibly see.
and those dreams are like a window to future events...

you might find that a little weird or hard to believe...
but i know when any one from the family will pass away weeks before...i know if i will succeed or fail in any matter before hand...i also saw visions of war one week before 2006 summer war...and 2 weeks before 2007 summer war...
i alos saw a dream of war lately...i hope it doesn't come true any time soon.

visions...i know at least some of you go to places they have never seen before and see faces they never known before..and say " i have been here before...where do i know you from"....if that happens than know that you have vision powers as well...
it passes through blood...or also we believe that it is a gift from God...he might give it on great level to some people...some times it is a curse..no one wants to know the bad that is coming...

 

[Chi65]

I know these visions about coming deaths or accidents very well, happened several times. But I do not see it as via blood or god or so. Also your described deja vues fall into such a category, again, I had plenty.
You are completely right, that people do not like to hear about bad things coming, thus I usually shut my mouth, when this is apparent, with very few exceptions, if its not yet clear, what is coming, but at least a heavy crisis.
A kind of warning does not really help, but I once only pointed towards a broken line in someone, which I found, after I got these strong visions and almost a nervous breakdown with uncontrollable tears out of the blue (which is not new in such cases), but at home, for no one to see.
Almost half a year later, I got it confirmed, just when a picture was finished by me, with the main parts of the film (plus the man plus facing some bonelike broken parts), during which all that happened (I had no idea about any filmplans so far, nor further contacts!). The man was lucky, he broke both legs between two cars(stunt), but survived and then changed his appearance completely and for the better.
In fact, he became worldwide wellknown, still is.

 

[Mitsuo]

If anyone is interested in winning $1,000,000, all you have to do is prove your "powers", under controlled conditions of course. Just visit Home.

I have had weird things happen in my life, things that would be considered "paranormal". But I tend to believe that there is a logical explanation for it. One problem that I have, with whomever claims to posses "powers", is that when they are being tested under laboratory conditions or just being asked to demonstrate them for friends and fail, they resort to the "Special Pleading" fallacy. Ex: They say that "it doesn't work right now because there are too many people around who don't believe" or "negative energy" or "the wind has to be blowing at a specific rate.."... and so on.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, I truly think that you think that you can do these things. But I think people should demonstrate their powers under controlled conditions. The main reason why I stress this is because of all the frauds out there. Anyone ever hear of Sylvia Browne?

 

[Chi65]

I know that Randi and his methods too well, you only have to say, its normal, and it mostly is, and soon you go off his hunt. He will never give anything to anyone anyhow in such a case.

And it is true, that you cannot just click it on and off in most cases. It comes, when it comes.

Even laying hands on is said to be BS, even if it is clear, that it simply heats up as basic, about which there is nothing wrong at the first place.
But already there they say its not possible, can you imagine? Everybody can do a test on their own body!! Any time! They will say, that you use chi, and chi is BS, while they additionally have never heard about its infinite real translations nor origin over there. It is as if everything related to the word Ki in Japan is BS for them, even worse, understand?

Its a laugh, if they go on fighting "chi" in general, but they choose not to understand this. Everyone who knows the word by sound, knows, that there are even many signs for it, not to mention all the Kombinations. They cannot even imagine this at Randi and co, but stick to the parts that they think, they understand, but only in negative sense! Consequently, hilariously!

Yes, I gave myself the fun, to consciously provoke some around with that name, amused about the prejudices, although not on Randi's own forum, but a neighbour one, with partly the very same people, hey, it was great fun!!!!
And several ones were banned for shorter or longer, because they simply became nasty, when I said this above, a simple truth, it was funny!!

And someone seriously wanted to make these dollars with me to finance his own lab, but already failed to see this warm hand issue right, and was one who then became real nasty, even when Rama came with very supportive facts about some syns, also related to aura for example. I kind of broke a former agressive thread about this issue too, it just turned from open offences towards serious watchers and readers, hehe.

I am still standing there, a respected oldie, an accepted curiosity, but not much interested in repeating myself all the time. But they shovel news about my interests over now and then and are very nice now.

Apart from that you have to be very strong first to stand all the blames that you get there at Randis, and many are not even valid anymore, as for us synaesthetes. Around the next corner, you already have Mr. Ramachandran, who explains several phenomenom in a clear scientific way, that short before have been thought of to be unnormal or even shizophrenic, even silenced by several doctors.
That very same Rama (who is attending the same meetings as Randi, by the way, and surely is far more believable as a scientist) has clearly shown this to be even above normal, but not para gaga in many cases (as still often blamed for around Randi), if not genius level, like many artists, be it musicians or painter etc...
(Neurologist Cytowic would be another fine adress to look for!)

Also a wonderfull psychologist called me for cooperations, and we exchanged many wonderfull things. She now has two books on the run, one about creativity, and one about empathy (mirror neurons, apes etc.). Also I participated in several projects for radio and TV in following. All fine and serious.

Randi? Makes me laugh. Although I personally do not like this Sylvia Brown either, its clear, that the media would immediately replace her anyhow, in case. Such a hunt often only helps for more publicity, for free, while a PR campaign would be much more costly... Its surprising, that someone like Randi cannot see this, although he knows the market. But even he gains via TV etc., don't blind yourselves, people!

Why one should "demonstrate" is beyond my understanding. I am not a circus horse, nor a machine. Its more than enough, that there are many witnesses for what happened. But that does not count at Randis, so what. The real trickster is him.
He is for the sensation, but there is no sensation in the end, except the one he makes. Its all natural, exactly, although some may have to learn it again.
That may come in time.

 

[Mars Man]

I like your presentation of the synaesthesia state, Chi65 san. I think it generally covered most of the effects that are possible--especially with seeing colors. Of course, what little is known about just what is happening in the brain, even, we can say that there's nothing so paranormal about it, but much more study should be done on this--and unfortunately, it will take better non-intrusive study capabilities.

One thing that is for sure, however, is that that state is more common in very young people, who then loose it--as the neural connections formulate--and is less common in adults.

 

[Chi65]

I like your presentation of the synaesthesia state, Chi65 san. I think it generally covered most of the effects that are possible--especially with seeing colors. Of course, what little is known about just what is happening in the brain, even, we can say that there's nothing so paranormal about it, but much more study should be done on this--and unfortunately, it will take better non-intrusive study capabilities.
One thing that is for sure, however, is that that state is more common in very young people, who then loose it--as the neural connections formulate--and is less common in adults.

Thanks mars man, well, you know, where one of my interests is. . .it grew very much during the last few years, when I was asked and found some forums, who on one side offended, but thus made me think and research, on the other side supported and added even. And talking to partly scientists and jerks simultaneously probably also helped to develop a kind of voice for this.
I am still learning, but it connects more and more and comes out like a very clear picture, and by some pictures, as you know yourself, it needs time, but will be done. You are pretty similar in this. Digging is fun, right?
Every question leads to an answer.

As you said, the word paranormal only describes something that is either not yet known or forgotten, thus no more. But I think, its simply like any of god's names etc. just a method (exactly, thanks) to describe something, thats not yet fully known. And as soon as we can say it better, we can create a new name, which does not mean, that the old one is wrong, by the way.

If you take normal for average for example, its perfectly alright, also statistically. If in our society certain things are not normal any more (but in others very well, we come to this later, I suppose, I already got good signs for this!), that does not mean, that it is not very well normal in general. Our brain may have much more in store for us, once we let it. Thats how I think, at least. Just imagine some autisics with amazing capacities on the other hand. (It is already officially related to syn, by the way!)

Yes, a less-intrusive way is in fact much better. Imagine, how a "gifted" one can relax, when not offended and amongst some, who try positively to understand! I somewhat wish, we had more scientists like Rama, I would not be shy to open up there. I can feel that he is onto much more than he says at the moment, and he seems to speed up even. He has cooperated with artists, like Cytovic, thus also learned from them, aha! He even is in cooperation with an art-museum, also like Cytovic.
Randi? Nil. . .just cynics.

Its OK to come to the pot(Potte), as we say in Germany, but not everything is to be found on only one side of the brain, so to say. It needs more, the exchanges! If not, a kind of mental phantom pain may cause irrational fighters, because if you never learned how to handle that more emotional part, you will fight around you, for that kind of freedom, for example, very irrationally, like a sportscar, that cannot be driven properly, because its not been taught, how to. All there is is this phantom pain. . .that calls for WAR!

And, yes, it is related to too ignorant methods, like the christian one for example (which may have been OK for a while, according to the needs of a special time, but since it hunted exactly those "gifted" ones down later, its. . .well. . .if you get my point. And it never recovered from this.)

Also, to come back to the above, "our kind" has to learn the language of such other researchers, which is not easy, if so far they were more attacking then listening. Some need so much time, even to find themselves again after long hidings. They are not yet ready to report to scientists, is my observation for longer. But in smaller circles, they do report a lot already. And its always the same kind of reports, like here!

Randi has played all the wrong cards in this, while beside him the right ones come onto the table, with childlike pleasure even. Get it?

Some people's pieces fall into place, and will be given more there, others not.
So, where would you go then?

Good night, its late, greeting from a night owl. Its time to recover, chr., chr., chr. . . .

 

[Annubis]

"As you said, the word paranormal only describes something that is either not yet known or forgotten, thus no more. But I think, its simply like any of god's names etc. just a method (exactly, thanks) to describe something, thats not yet fully known. And as soon as we can say it better, we can create a new name, which does not mean, that the old one is wrong, by the way." - Quoted from Chi

Thank you Chi (sweet dreams)

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Many things only appear to be unexplainable, because the senses for this are mostly forlorn, but they are well and alive and can even be trained.
For example, if you see a leaf, coming out of the earth, you can very well say, what plant will grow out of this, via experience, at least, if you are a gardener. In this sense, a gardener can forsee the future.
Our minds work the same way, if we are sensible enough, to store experiences and signs, we can in fact forsee a lot. And dreams, who are directly connected with our subcinsciousness, simply search in these deep layers to find the according pieces to tell us the new "growth" via already given informations.

I think this is a very sensible explanation, and I particularly like your analogy of the gardener.

There's a lot going on in the human brain, only so much of which we have the capacity to be conscious of. I think when we have a gut feeling or intuition, we are actually responding to some mental process that is happening below the level of perception. I don't think there's anything paranormal about that, but since we're not aware of the thought processes in our own minds, it can certainly seem spooky.

but i know when any one from the family will pass away weeks before...i know if i will succeed or fail in any matter before hand...i also saw visions of war one week before 2006 summer war...and 2 weeks before 2007 summer war...
i alos saw a dream of war lately...i hope it doesn't come true any time soon.

I also knew with absolute certainty when my grandmother was going to die. The doctors were planning for her recovery, fully assuming that she would pull through. The last time I saw her I knew I would never see her again, and even said as much to my husband. She died the following evening. I know many people would attribute this to some sort of seventh sense (it is seventh, btw), but I have a different explanation, which is simply that I knew my Nan better than the doctors did. Sure, they knew more about the illness. But I knew my Nan, and from the way she looked and acted, and the things she said to me, I knew that she would very soon die.

As for knowing whether you will succeed or fail, or whether war will start, surely that's based on a partly conscious, partly sub-conscious assessment of your own abilities in the first case, and of a political situation in the other? If it comes in the form of a dream or pictorial vision, well I would just attribute that to an active imagination.

visions...i know at least some of you go to places they have never seen before and see faces they never known before..and say " i have been here before...where do i know you from"....

I do that. I have always had very vivid visions in certain places, like hallucinations. I have seen a procession of ethereal monks bearing torches on Glastonbury Tor. I have seen a mediaeval wedding at Tintagel, a Dark Age battle near Shrewsbury and Tudor gentlemen at Moreton Corbett. Sometimes they come of their own accord and surprise me, sometimes I can conjure them up at will. I used to believe I was seeing true visions of past events. I now know that I am seeing nothing more than a figment of my own imagination. It's still just as exciting when it happens though.

One problem that I have, with whomever claims to posses "powers", is that when they are being tested under laboratory conditions or just being asked to demonstrate them for friends and fail, they resort to the "Special Pleading" fallacy. Ex: They say that "it doesn't work right now because there are too many people around who don't believe" or "negative energy" or "the wind has to be blowing at a specific rate.."... and so on.

I agree. It's a good thing that surgeons, doctors, scientists and actors (to name a few!) can still perform well when people are watching! What is it about paranormal abilities that makes them fail in the lab? Even if they really exist, just how useful are they if they can't be made to work at will?

I know that Randi and his methods too well, you only have to say, its normal, and it mostly is, and soon you go off his hunt. He will never give anything to anyone anyhow in such a case.

I'm also not entirely comfortable with Randi's methods - he a debunker, not a true skeptic. I know he generally goes after the true frauds, those who are making a lot of money by exploiting people's credulity. If he uses the same methods against those who are just simply misguided, I think that's somewhat mean-spirited. Although I just noticed that the prize is now only open to those with an established media image, which seems like a good thing. His foundation is called JREF, btw

The thing that amazes me is that there are proven charlatans out there making a lot of money from their so-called abilities, and I don't understand why they are allowed to continue doing so. Uri Geller is a perfect example. It's been proven on two occasions that I've seen that he's a con-artist. In the process of writing this I have just discovered that he's just about admitted as much, which is a great victory for Randi, although it took 35 years!

I'll no longer say that I have supernatural powers. I am an entertainer. I want to do a good show. My entire character has changed.

 

[sabro]

I have the amazing ability to transform large expensive and useful items into worthless piles of junk. It works best on cars... I can take any make and model in any condition... and render it not only functionally useless, but also aesthetically unrecognizable in seconds. Sometimes I do this without even realizing it... I wake up in a cloud of steam being extricated from my amazing work.

 

[sabro]

I can also make large amounts of money mysteriously disappear.

I'd be glad to demonstrate this power, but my money is all gone. I would need some of your money for a demonstration.

 

[Chi65]

I agree. It's a good thing that surgeons, doctors, scientists and actors (to name a few!) can still perform well when people are watching! What is it about paranormal abilities that makes them fail in the lab? Even if they really exist, just how useful are they if they can't be made to work at will?

Well, some can, some can't, some are made for a stage, some are not.
Which does not mean, that they cannot do their part, be it from their own places, like a painter. Then let those do it, where and how they can do it best and have the own inner doors or windows opening. Nothing really wrong with this. Whereas that would indeed be fatal for a doctor or scientist or actor, not necessarily so for a painter, composer, writer etc., although some can also present the process very well. It depends, its also partly training and own trust in these abilities. Some even use it for "performances", I would hardly be able to, but can present obvious results and let them speak for me! But thats me.
Which also shows, which parts of the brains are included. . .and who can use them which way. And all ways should be accepted.
The difference lays in the fact, that some claim to be able on call, and when they fail, they are indeed frauds, but only in accordance to the claim to be able all the time and in all cases. It says nothing about their general abilities.
And that is no reason, to say, all of them are frauds in general, its even ridiculously uninformed, to do so.
For example, a painter, who got a high degree, does not have to prove under lab-conditions afterwards, that he is a painter, only because god/pope Randi ignores this. Plain rubbish.(I do not mean you, please)

I'm also not entirely comfortable with Randi's methods - he a debunker, not a true skeptic. I know he generally goes after the true frauds, those who are making a lot of money by exploiting people's credulity. If he uses the same methods against those who are just simply misguided, I think that's somewhat mean-spirited. Although I just noticed that the prize is now only open to those with an established media image, which seems like a good thing. His foundation is called JREF, btw
The thing that amazes me is that there are proven charlatans out there making a lot of money from their so-called abilities, and I don't understand why they are allowed to continue doing so. Uri Geller is a perfect example. It's been proven on two occasions that I've seen that he's a con-artist. In the process of writing this I have just discovered that he's just about admitted as much, which is a great victory for Randi, although it took 35 years!

Its all for the show, see? . .and if one actor leaves the stage, the next one fills out the same role, and does already. They lately announced a Geller-like young man here, can't yet remember his name. . .
Show also means tricks, and any tricks have always amused the public, the wole magician industry lives from this. (Any theatre is illusion, so what?) Randi has been one trickster himself, I suppose, he just uses it all to establish his ghosthunter-images. Thats as well a trick, by the way. . .And after all, why should a media person need Randi's money? Randi needs the money that comes out of his own media shows, to put it more right, by calling flies to burn in media light.
Randi has lost, not won, another one continues the trickster shows successfully.
People want this! Con or not. It smells too much like a private revenge from Randi. If he did not get enough attention for his own shows as a magician, he started to play spoilport instead. Well, that kept him alive for sure.

I still admire someone's fine artistic tricks, if they are good, for being such fine arts, by the way.

Spoilsports are spoilsports, but if people want them too, well, let them be, I would not necessairly play into their pockets though, although watch this game with interest once more, plus make up my own mind. He has me clapping and booing, depends, he is a media performer himself, after all, not the allknowing judge. And thats it.

 

[sabro]

Here is the link to James Randi's site: Home

Pick up the million dollar reward. It is sitting untouched.

(And here I am, the Born Again fanatic, promoting the Athiest skeptic...)

 

[Chi65]

Look into former posts, the link is already there, plus the comments.
But why not trying yourself??
Randi would probaly love the money-dissappearing-part. . . ;-)

 

[sabro]

I'd stack my aforementioned paranormal abilities against anyone else's. I'm certain I have a better chance at winning.

 

[Chi65]

I give you my vote anyhow!

(but I have no car nor money. . .but you'll surely find someone, who has)

Cheers, master!

 

[Mitsuo]

The thing that amazes me is that there are proven charlatans out there making a lot of money from their so-called abilities, and I don't understand why they are allowed to continue doing so.

It can be hard at times to stop people from doing these things. To stop a psychic, for example, would be a very hard thing to do, because they can declare their powers and beliefs under "religious rights". Again, Sylvia Browne. She has created a church called "Novus Spiritus". James Randi has offered her a chance to win the money and she accepted live on The Larry King Show. But for some reason-I wonder what that could be?- she has avoided this challenge. She says that she "doesn't need the money", but if that were the case, and if she's is such a humanitarian (self proclaimed on the Montel Show), then she should donate the million to a charity and at the same time she would silence all of her critics.

---------
Much of Randi's methods may seem a bit harsh and maybe out of the ordinary. But they need to be. If a person has a power, they should have no problem whatsoever with anything that Randi throws at them. When referring to powers some say "It comes, when it comes". If that's the case then how in the world could any type of scientific research be done on it? It would be very wise to research this only if it was a "regular" occurence. Meaning, it would actually give a researcher the opportunity to study a person during their "paranormal" episode. It would make research very hard to do if the powers never occur in patterns, or are not "triggered" by the individual or by external sources. I can see why science has not put too much time and money into paranormal research. It's just too random and a lot of the times these claims are easily explainable. It is of course good to investigate claims, only if they aren't random occurences and if they had the potential to better mankind. Of course "better" being a relative term.

Yes, the word "paranormal" would mean that something is unknown. But it could also describe something that has no scientific basis around it (pseudoscience is more like it). If something is deemed paranormal and it becomes proven, then it obviously isn't paranormal. That's a given. So, does that mean that everyone should believe every claim of the existence of powers? Definitely not. That's why it's important for a person to back up their claim under scientific conditions. Randi provides that.

 

[Mitsuo]

For example, a painter, who got a high degree, does not have to prove under lab-conditions afterwards, that he is a painter, only because god/pope Randi ignores this. Plain rubbish.(I do not mean you, please)

I'm afraid I don't know what this means...

Its all for the show, see? . .and if one actor leaves the stage, the next one fills out the same role, and does already. They lately announced a Geller-like young man here, can't yet remember his name. . .

I also am not too sure about what this means and where its significance lies. I believe you are referring to Ehud Segev the "Mentalizer"?. He has claimed that what he does is not at all paranormal, but is in fact just a trick.

. . .And after all, why should a media person need Randi's money? Randi needs the money that comes out of his own media shows, to put it more right, by calling flies to burn in media light.

Well, the media person, which I'm guessing describes the likings of Sylvia Browne, wouldn't need the money because they are already conning the public of their money. So they don't need the money. But hey, if they have the power then it should be no problem obtaining the million dollars. I don't know what you mean when you say that Randi needs the money....

If he did not get enough attention for his own shows as a magician, he started to play spoilport instead. Well, that kept him alive for sure.

No, he isn't doing this because he didn't get enough attention and decided to play spoilsport. I mean, did he actually say that his intentions are in envy of other magicians? He wants people to think critically about the world around them. This is a good thing. It's good that there are people out there, like Randi, trying to inform the public on all the scams that charlatans cash in on.

He has me clapping and booing, depends, he is a media performer himself, after all, not the allknowing judge. And thats it.

Well, no one deems him to be the all knowing judge. He's doing his job as a skeptic. He is not really a "media performer", assuming that means he claims paranormal powers and cashes in on it,... he was a magician and has never claimed that his magic was in the realm of the paranormal.