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Opinion on tattoo

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benharada

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I'm expecting to get a bit lit up on this one, because that seems to be the theme on tattoo questions. Nevertheless:

I'm 1/4 Japanese, and I was very close to my Japanese grandmother. I'm getting tattoos to honor the different cultures of my family. I've also been in the military for more than 11 years (between Marine Corps and Army) with several combat deployments, and I've always wanted a "Death before Dishonor" tattoo. I've spent more than a decade trying to decide how I want that depicted, and I've finally come up with the concept I want.

It will be traditional-style Japanese artwork, with a depiction of a Samurai performing seppuku. On his sleeve will be a depiction of our mon. I initially was going to have the words in English, but I'm toying with the idea of having them in Japanese. I'd prefer that, but would like to get the opinion of native Japanese speakers.

Either way, I plan to get the tattoo. The questions is just whether it will be in English or Japanese. The translation I understand is: fu mei yo yo ri shi. The characters are here: The word Death Before Dishonor in Chinese Characters and Japanese Kanji Symbols / Letters / Words / Glyphs.

Although I'm open to any opinions, I'm really looking for native Japanese speakers' opinions. I don't want to be disrespectful or look like an idiot if I go back to Japan (which I'm sure I will, between the military or pleasure).

Thanks
 
Is the design going to include the dude waiting to chop off his head?

Since seppuku was a more dignified way of departing than being executed, wouldn't the implication be that the screwup has already taken place and that rather than a matter of "death before dishonor" it is more like a matter of "you can resign or be fired" in modern terms?
 
Kamikaze probably had similar tattoos to the one you're getting.

Any ways, governments love people who put "death before dishonour", guess that's they they try to promote in the military.
 

The design won't include the dude waiting to chop off the head. You bring up a good point about the implication. As I understand the history though, the dishonor would be for the departing party to not perform seppuku. If he performed it, he was doing the honorable thing. The way I'm looking at it, from a military point of view, is being willing to die before dishonoring my unit or service. That may not make sense outside of the military.

And if it doesn't make sense to you, I'd like to know. To put it in context, would also like to know if you've served in the military.

Thanks for your input!
 
I was never in the military; I went into the Navy instead.
 
FinancialWar said:
Kamikaze probably had similar tattoos to the one you're getting.

Any ways, governments love people who put "death before dishonour", guess that's they they try to promote in the military.
Click to expand...

Another good point. To me, this wouldn't focus so much on the act of suicide as it would on being willing to die before being willing to bring dishonor upon myself or my unit/service. That goes along with my above reply.

That's popular in the military because it can be necessary on the battlefield. It goes along with the job.
 
I don't believe this design conveys the idea you want it to, certainly not in the sense the USMC uses it. For one thing, it it totally antithetical to the guidelines laid down in the Code of Conduct.
 
Mike Cash said:
I don't believe this design conveys the idea you want it to, certainly not in the sense the USMC uses it. For one thing, it it totally antithetical to the guidelines laid down in the Code of Conduct.
Click to expand...

Damn you for bringing in that point of view

I will take that under consideration. From the people I know in the military (combat arms), the tattoo makes sense. And that particular phrase is very common....but I was looking for a different twist, which was the catalyst for the Japanese-inspired artwork.

Nonetheless, good point, and I will definitely consider that. Thank you.
 
If you have any plan to come to Japan, I recommend against the tattoo. They have a stupid, almost superstitious thing against them. And having one in kanji probably makes it worse actually. But if you get one anyway, at least you know what you are getting into. It might be a worthwhile fight against that stupidity, but its most certainly not a show of respect to Japanese culture, at least not modern and mainstream Japanese culture.

And sorry, but I have to say this: If you truly believed in death before dishonor, you would not be in a standing army sent half way around the world to fight an illegitimate war.

I would suggest some other tattoo and a specific one, something more accurate, but it would be thread jacking.
 
FinancialWar said:
Isn't navy considered part of the military?
Click to expand...

It was a joke, and a pretty good one.

Navy personnel don't see much combat these days. Its mostly the other three branches doing the actual fighting and destruction. Thus the joke that the Navy is not military.
 

I'm seeing this on a lot of the threads, that the Japanese don't accept tattoos. I'm also seeing on other forums that tattoos are becoming more mainstream and culturally accepted. Whether I get another one or not, I'm already screwed because I have a huge tat on my back and another on my arm. Thanks for the advice though.

As far as your second statement, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I obviously have reasons for disagreeing, but I don't see this as the place to get into that -- so I'll save that for another forum.
 
Benharada

I am curious if you studied any military strategy, especially the classical philosophical military books like "Art of War" or "On War" or similar. One of the stupidity in any military confrontation is to but pride before sense, or as you would say "death before dishonour".

All your enemy have to do is to call you a few names, defame your reputation convince that you're dishonouring yourself and you'll kill yourself?
 

I have studied Art of War, in addition to many other contemporary and classic works. I'm not sure if you're referencing any of my statements, thinking that I'm putting pride before sense.

If you're looking to get into a discussion about the war, I am going to decline. This thread was strictly about the tattoo -- how the words would translate and if they would be looked down on by Japanese.
 
well, it will most like to be looked down up by Japanese society, tattoo have connotation with yakuza.
 
The "tattoo = yakuza" thing is as outdated as a lot of the other bunk foreigners love to tell each other about Japan.
 
There is a time and place for everything. There's a 2 fold answer for you.
 
As far as your second statement, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I obviously have reasons for disagreeing, but I don't see this as the place to get into that -- so I'll save that for another forum.
Click to expand...

Never mind the little niceties and never mind hiding behind them. I am talking about far bigger stuff here. And instead of another forum, how about another thread?

Do foreign soldiers in Afghanistan have honor? | Japan Forum
 
I'm happy to see that this was a wise choice of places to get advice on a simple topic. I appreciate all of the sage advice and opinions. Your wisdom is taken to heart, and will no doubt steer my life choices in a new direction. Cheers!
 
Could we try to stay on topic a bit guys.
 
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