names

how are names written in japanese?

In the tutorials I see them in katakana, but I always see japanese names written in kanji

Japanese family names are written in kanji, given names are basically in kanji, but sometimes people prefer to use kana (usually hiragana).

Katakana is often used for foreign names, as there're no kanji for them, except Chinese names.
e.g. Jan → ヤン Ellen→エレン

Well, Korean names use kanji too (李明博, 金正日, 朴仁国, etc.).

TheAce said:

how are names written in japanese?
In the tutorials I see them in katakana, but I always see japanese names written in kanji

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We can only wish. But never fear, there are dictionaries that cover nothing more than the pronunciation and the writing of Japanese proper names. The problems involved in reading are that many.

About the only generalization is that most names are in compounds of two kanji and based on a kun (native Japanese) rather than an on (Chinese derived) reading.

Glenn said:

Well, Korean names use kanji too (李明博, 金正日, 朴仁国, etc.).

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I thought so too, but not always these days - most Korean actors/actress name and sports player's name are written in katakana, so I decided not to mention it.
e.g. チェ・ジウ、ペ・ヨンジュン、キム・ヨナ.
goo 動画

Hmm, maybe it's an official rank/newspaper thing, then. I usually see Korean personal and place names at least glossed with the kanji in newspaper articles, at least.

undrentide said:

I thought so too, but not always these days - most Korean actors/actress name and sports player's name are written in katakana, so I decided not to mention it.ﾂ
e.g. チェ・ジウ、ペ・ヨンジュン、キム・ヨナ.

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I've always been curious though, why it's a requirement for Koreans to write the kanji for their names when they go to Japan. My Korean friend told me that when she went to Japan on exchange there were times Chinese and Korean students had to write their name in Kanji if they had it for government documents. The only one I recognise is "Kim" which is similar to the onyomi for 金 in Japanese.

The only place I've seen kanji-only Korean names is in the conservative Sankei Shinbun. To emphasize the Chinese connection most probably.

But I don't usually watch more than NHK, and there at least the policy is to katakanaize.


Is kanji even taught anymore in Korean schools ?

Here are a few that use kanji that aren't NHK or Sankei:

テレビ朝日 with readings for 朴仁国 and 朴徳勲 glossed
MSNニュース with no gloss for the reading of 李明博
MSNニュース with no gloss for the reading of 朴仁国 or 李明博
MSNニュース with no gloss for the reading of 魏聖洛
CNN.co.jp with 李明博 glossed
CNN.co.jp with 朴林寿 un-glossed
毎日.jp with 天安 (although it isn't a personal name) and 李明博 glossed
スポーツ報知 with 金妍兒 glossed

Granted, キム・ヨナ seems to be a lot more common than 金妍兒. Maybe it's more of a tendency with government officials' names in newspapers, online at least (I haven't seen a print Japanese paper from the last three years). Anyway, it seems like I've always seen 金正日 instead of キム・ジョンイル.

Elizabeth said:

Is kanji even taught anymore in Korean schools ?

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According to the Hanja Wikipedia article, they learn 1800 from 7th-12th grades.

Wow ! What about the pop culture wave of manga, novels, films and even ﾂ"cosplayﾂ" cafes in South Korea ? Nothing about characters helping them to learn Japanese !! :angryfire:


Educators Plan Class on Chinese Characters

The government has decided to reintroduce Chinese characters as part of its primary school curriculum but hangeul advocates are challenging the plan.

The Ministry of Education said that by 2013, students will learn Chinese characters as an elective. This may leave the door open for it to become a compulsory subject later, opponents counter.

Those who support Chinese character learning at an early stage also says such an education is important to helping Koreans gain the upper hand in global competition at a time when China is already Korea's biggest trading partner and is emerging as a global superpower.

They said that learning the characters can help Koreans learn the Chinese language.

"Chinese language classes will be provided on an optional basis. Therefore, the resumption does not necessarily mean that Korean language education is at risk," said senior education official Kim Dong-won.

Kim stressed more than 1,260 hours of Korean language lessons are offered to students from first to sixth grade in primary schools, accounting for the largest part of the entire curriculum at 21.7 percent.

Kim and his supporters added that the absence of education on Chinese characters in public education for the past decades has created a variety of side effects and a generational gap in a society where writing the names of one's own family members and knowing basic terms in Chinese has been regarded as a sort of "common sense."

Yeah, that's pretty much what I got from the Japanese and Chinese Wkipedia pages, with the Chinese one saying that presently the South Korean government has already planned to introduce hanja as an official course into primary schools staring in 2011, and that 83% of people (not sure exactly who, though) agree to reviving hanja education:

目前韓國政府已經計劃從2011年開始，將漢字學習列入小 學正規教育課程。而在民調方面百分之83的韓國家長贊成 恢復漢字學習。

I'm a bit confused by the proximity of 民調 to 韓國家長. Maybe it's talking about popular sentiment among South Korean parents? Anyway... the date's a little different, so maybe the Wikipedia's a little older. I didn't see it say when "presently" is exactly, although the dates of the references are from November 2007 (this line wasn't referenced). Maybe it got pushed back from the time that was written until now.

I think it's common for the Koreans to talk more about China than Japan when talking about hanja education, which makes sense for a couple of reasons: 1) they came from China, and 2) Korean vocabulary is made up of more Chinese words than Japanese and has more in common with Chinese vocabulary than it does with Japanese. But, Japan did get mentioned on that page:

如果可以寫漢字，那麼中國大陸、臺灣、日本、新加坡之 間即可用筆談的方法來溝通。

Roughly, "if you can write characters, then you can use written language to communicate with (people from) mainland China, Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore." For some reason Hong Kong got left out of this one and in the Japanese one; it's like one was a translation of the other:

また、韓国人の中では国際競争力の面から漢字教育を肯 定的にとらえる意見もある。漢字が読み書きできれば、 中国とはもちろん、日本、台湾、シンガポールなどで筆談による意思疎通が可能[要出典]であり、東アジアでの共通文字である漢字を捨てること は国際競争力を弱めるという主張である。

Also interesting, on Wikipedia the only articles there are for 筆談 are in Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. Makes sense, really, but it's hard to translate.

Glenn said:

I think it's common for the Koreans to talk more about China than Japan when talking about hanja education, which makes sense for a couple of reasons: 1) they came from China, and 2) Korean vocabulary is made up of more Chinese words than Japanese and has more in common with Chinese vocabulary than it does with Japanese. But, Japan did get mentioned on that page:
如果可以寫漢字，那麼中國大陸、臺灣、日本、新加坡之間即可用筆談的方法來溝通。

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Well, that's good because the Japanese introduced Hanja-Hangul mixed writing during their occupation so the pronunciations are probably much more similar than to Chinese.

Probably a major reason Koreans started to have contempt for the use of Hanja, too, and eventually eliminated it. Because under Imperial rule Japanese language and history was compulsory for everyone and Korean language and history was banned in schools. Korea is part of the kanji community of nations, though, and I do think they have gone a little extreme. North and South.