I suspect that this is still a faint work in progress.Is there a plot to this novel?
If so, heed all of Mike's words immediately above this post. I agree with them 100%.Or is it just a vehicle for showcasing aspects of Japanese culture which ultimately are irrelevant to advancing a plot?
This is precisely what happened in that 007 book I helped with.The other danger you run into when you try to force too much Japanese vocabulary into a story is that you either have to use footnotes, include a glossary at the end, or constantly annoy your readers with extraneous explanations of what the words mean. After a certain point it begins to look like the author is just trying to show off knowledge of Japanese vocabulary.
You didn't answer my question. Very annoying.
Crock pots are not in use here. People don't maintain food warm while someone is away just so they can eat it upon arriving at home. You are once again not giving enough information here!
Want soup heated? Use a microwave or the stove. We do it either way in my home. Want to KEEP IT WARM? Answer the question I posed -- for how long?
Mike Cash said:Is there a plot to this novel? Or is it just a vehicle for showcasing aspects of Japanese culture which ultimately are irrelevant to advancing a plot?
Mike Cash said:A conundrum arises when you try to write convincingly about aspects of a culture and lifestyle you know nothing about. And that is that your audience will consist of some people who are more knowledgeable and will find the attempts at authenticity forced and often inaccurate and of other people who won't have a clue and who will willingly swallow whatever you put before them. In other words, you can't fool the informed no matter how hard you try and the uninformed won't know the difference anyway. Which raises the question: What is the point of focusing on getting irrelevant minutiae right? Especially when you can just wave your magic wand and make everything right by saying "it's an alternate reality".
So if you want a traditional tabletop device for keeping spicy soup warm for a traditional ceremony, despite the fact there is no tradition of heating soup on a tabletop or of spicy soup or even any traditional soup ceremony.....then call it whatever you want to call it. "Authenticity" is no longer even a remote possibility at this point, so it makes little sense to get hung up over what to call the heater.
The other danger you run into when you try to force too much Japanese vocabulary into a story is that you either have to use footnotes, include a glossary at the end, or constantly annoy your readers with extraneous explanations of what the words mean. After a certain point it begins to look like the author is just trying to show off knowledge of Japanese vocabulary.
Glenski said:This is precisely what happened in that 007 book I helped with.
On the other hand, I helped another author (pretty famous now) with some Japanese language used in a book on witches, werewolves, etc. and which included a Japanese goblin. The author knew exactly how much to even attempt getting away with, and how much (how little, actually) to bother explaining (and let the readers just accept the words and do what they should -- read the story).
Mike Cash said:There's nothing wrong with just calling the thing a "heater" or whatever that is in Dutch. A heater doesn't become cool or exotic by being called a shichirin or a hibachi or anything else; it's just a damned heater.
Mike Cash said:I am reminded of starry-eyed Japanese teenaged girls from the days when I used to pretend to teach English to people who pretended to learn it. Some mentioned they'd like to have a foreign husband. When I asked why I often got an answer about how cool it would be to discuss things in English. I pointed out that, "Honey, do I have any clean socks?" isn't particularly cool no matter what language you say it in. Point is, use Japanese vocabulary where there is no good equivalent in Dutch. Don't force Japanese words in just to add flavor. If the characters and the plot can't carry the story, then spicing it up with foreign vocabulary isn't going to save it. Like spice and cosmetics, sometimes less is more.
This is your initial question (emphasis is mine). Can you see the difference from what you just wrote?Well, now. I thought I was rather clear. I "needed something to heat up a bowl of soup to a drinkable temperature". I understood your point very well about unpredictability, which is why I thought my answer to your question was obviously: heat up for immediate consumption. I'm sorry this wasn't apparent enough, but the first paragraph of my previous post was in fact specifically an answer to your question.
I am looking for a portable heating device that can be placed on a table to keep a meal hot, or to heat it up.
I think he first 2 sentences above were a sarcastic response, not a serious one, so I'll skip over that with the impression that you are getting frustrated here, too. As for the second point, we don't need the full plot, but you seem to be missing the whole point of what Mike and I are saying. We've lived and worked in Japan for about 50 years combined, so you have to trust what we say about the wording you are choosing, but also about some of the details that we are picking at, ok?No, I always write plotless fiction. I also like to kid myself my readers appreciate that.
I'll probably explain my plot further when I have more to tell about it.
We're not telling you how to write. We're telling you about one specific point you asked about. You don't seem to get the advice and direction we're giving. The story, its plot, theme, and flow are entirely yours, but you're just not seeing one tree for the forest.I chose to base my fictional world on the real one, and then wave my magic in it. This is a blessing for creating parallells and differences, placing messages about politics and society, human nature and reality's nature. And at the same time explain why the plot advances the way it does. Waving my magic isn't just part of the sport, it is the sport.
Does that mean there is a purpose you aren't explaining to us about this heater thing? The way you write here, it seems to be some major sort of significance, but I really don't see it that way.True, but don't tell my readers that. Being specific and unconventional does help to create a certain atmosphere. As long as there is a purpose behind it.
What context? We have almost none to go on. Call this thing what you want, or give us a reason to need to know more.This isn't about vocabulary at all. It's about creating the context in which the plot advances.
I think we've given you plenty of advice on this. A heater is a heater (and feel free to use the katakana names I gave you at no charge), but you're thinking of using a Japanese word incorrectly here. Why can't you see that?I use Japanese vocabulary where I think the story can benefit from it. If it involves a Japanese character in a setting that has its Japanese influences, are there any alternatives to borrowing a few things from Japan?
I think we've demonstrated quite a bit of patience, otherwise we wouldn't still be here offering advice without cursing up a storm. You just aren't taking the advice!I only ask for honest answers to my questions and a fair bit of patience with me.
Maybe we have a language problem here.
I think he first 2 sentences above were a sarcastic response, not a serious one, so I'll skip over that with the impression that you are getting frustrated here, too. As for the second point, we don't need the full plot, but you seem to be missing the whole point of what Mike and I are saying. We've lived and worked in Japan for about 50 years combined, so you have to trust what we say about the wording you are choosing, but also about some of the details that we are picking at, ok?
We're not telling you how to write. We're telling you about one specific point you asked about. You don't seem to get the advice and direction we're giving. The story, its plot, theme, and flow are entirely yours, but you're just not seeing one tree for the forest.
-
I think we've given you plenty of advice on this. A heater is a heater (and feel free to use the katakana names I gave you at no charge), but you're thinking of using a Japanese word incorrectly here. Why can't you see that?
Does that mean there is a purpose you aren't explaining to us about this heater thing? The way you write here, it seems to be some major sort of significance, but I really don't see it that way.
Mike Cash said:After reading your reply this morning, I turned on my iPod and The Cars started singing: "I don't mind you coming here, and wasting all my time. 'Cause when you're standing oh-so-near, I kinda lose my mind."
Mike Cash said:I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I want you to try to understand it from our viewpoint as well. We're all Alice up here in the real world and we're trying to have a conversation with a guy who is down the rabbit hole. Poor Undrentide goes out of her way to explain about soup in Japan....and we discover that the soup is from your boy scout days in Belgium. What the hell are we supposed to do with that? We're all trying to help you with accurate and authentic information regarding real-world Japan....meanwhile you're off in your own self-created lala-land by yourself having Belgian boy scout rituals on Japanese tabletops with science fiction fueled heaters. I'm afraid there is really nothing we can do to help you. At least not without driving ourselves nuts in the process.
My question in the post was not answered. You only said, "needs to be heated", but earlier you wrote a choice of that or kept hot, hence the language problem I mentioned.Let's make some things clear here.
Your question -> post #30
My answer -> post #32
Next.
You're not giving enough information.What am I doing wrong here?
We've told you it's not and explained why, yet you keep ignoring us.I chose an object named a shichirin from the wiki link you provided. (As I also stated in post #32) The cubic one, as it looks perfect for what I intend to do with it. It's got a round indentation and three points for suspending my bowl off the surface. It's perfect.
andIt is just part of an initiation ritual the protagonist undergoes.
This latter point makes a difference, but I don't think you see that.I never asked about any soup being Japanese, because I knew it was not, before you asked me about it.
Since your story's reality is imagined, it doesn't make a bit of difference if you use a bonfire or a nuclear reactor to heat it. If you want to go ahead and call it a shichirin, the only suggestion I'd make is to consider whether your readers will look it up on Wikipedia and feel cheated/confused. Your call.What gives the best impression: heating the bowl in a microwave oven until it does its "ping" or heating the bowl with said cubic object?
I gotta side again with Mike on this one. At least you are appreciative of some of what we're doing. There have been other cases of people coming here and getting so riled up that they left in a huff and were being totally unreasonable in their demands. Mind you, your posts are bordering on that, and the fact that you don't get it is the infuriating point to Mike and me.I really appreciate the authentic and accurate information all of you are providing, but now you're just making this harder than it needs to be.