As for actual examples of when the pronunciations differ, it can really be present in just about any word, as far as I can see. Sometimes 日本語 will be pronounced "NihonGo" with a very definite hard "g" sound (usually by the male voice actor) while still other times there will be much more emphasis on the "n" sound and be pronounced "Nihonngo" without any hint of a hard "g" sound (usually by the female voice actor).Can you give an example where they differ in pronunciation?
Glad to know at least some Japanese learners are even aware of the two sounds. I have met many learners (especially here on Jref, sad to say) that claim to know a lot of Japanese but in reality have no idea what the two g sounds are like or where the pitch accent is on the simplest two-syllable words.
発音レッスン?(鼻濁音・音の「美意識」) - YouTube
There are both basic and advanced/exceptional sets of rules regarding when to produce the two g sounds. I will only list the former here as it would be too early to discuss the the latter kind unless one is advanced enough to be willing to discuss this solely in Japanese..
Use the nasal g when:
1. pronouncing the particle が.
2. pronouncing がぎぐげご in the middle or at the end of a word.
Use the acute g when::
1. pronouncing がぎぐげご as the first syllable of a word.
2. pronouncing ガギグゲゴ in foreign-origin words EXCEPT those borrowed from Chinese.
There are more subtle "rules" but these should be enough for OP at the moment.
@ The OP, what you heard from the female voice actress is called 鼻濁音[びだくおん], as used in the YouTube site. You can hear the difference between the two "g"s in the page linked below.
Nasal consonant of Japanese - Wikipedia
Incidentally, I was born and raised in Western Japan, so I don't (or can't) use 鼻濁音, as you heard in the male voice actor's words.
I do not know what materials you use for your study but I do know that not every Japanese speaker whose voice is recorded for study materials is actually all that trained for it. That would be the major reason that you find their use of the two different g sounds unpredictable. Trust me, those people will not be hired as professional announcers as epigene mentioned above.Thanks for helping me out with that. I'd still like to understand, though, -- if you'd care to help me further -- why these rules don't seem to apply to the "g" sound often enough to be obvious to a beginner. After revisiting my latest lesson and then beginning a new one, I listened very carefully to hear the way the "g" sounds are pronounced at the beginning and near the end of words, and they still seemed to be somewhat unpredictable. Also, as per the norm, the two speakers seemed to never really use the same pronunciation as the other when pronouncing the same words with the exception of a few words.
The "bidakuon" in Japanese pronunciation is still regarded standard but the reality is, however, that it is being heard less and less today, especially among the younger generations (when I mean "young" I include people in their 30s and 40s). As Toritoribe-san said, people of Western Japan don't use it, and I rarely hear it here in Tokyo.
You might think it is a relic of the past from what I'm writing, but it is still regarded "standard" and important for TV/radio announcers and other voice professionals. People of educated backgrounds and belonging to older generations use it. Also, it is still widely used in the Tohoku region.
For a Japanese language learner, I think it is nice to be able to master it, but it is something that is lower in priority compared to essential grammar and intonation.
Hope it helps. (Note; I'm writing without reading the entire thread, so my apologies if this had been stated earlier.)
I do not know what materials you use for your study but I do know that not every Japanese speaker whose voice is recorded for study materials is actually all that trained for it. That would be the major reason that you find their use of the two different g sounds unpredictable. Trust me, those people will not be hired as professional announcers as epigene mentioned above.
I completely agree with this.For a Japanese language learner, I think it is nice to be able to master it, but it is something that is lower in priority compared to essential grammar and intonation.
鼻濁音 - Wikipedia現在は、ガ行鼻濁音の使用自体が全体に衰退傾向となっている。
lol How ironical it is that the language section of this website is actually lead by someone who needs to copy from Wiki of all things to back up his posts when a young Japanese-learner from across the ocean can actually hear the difference!
Exactly as you observed. The male speaker sounds pretty "unrifined" to me, who learned about the two G sounds in first grade.Please, take a listen! Here's a link. You can listen to the first lesson for free. Going back and listening to it again very briefly, I noticed that the Male speaker's "g" in 英語 was acute but the woman's "g" was very soft and nasally in 日本語.
Like your comments are almost always so? Ah, no. I meant sarcastic, not ironical.lol How ironical it is that the language section of this website is actually lead by someone who needs to copy from Wiki of all things to back up his posts when a young Japanese-learner from across the ocean can actually hear the difference!
I completely agree with this.
Phonetically, 鼻濁音 is a complementary allophone in Tokyo dialect, which is the base of Standard Japanese. There is a rule which one(鼻濁音 or plain "g") should be used, as already explained, and 鼻濁音 is considered to sound elegant, sophisticated or soft. However, in some regions like Western Japan, 鼻濁音 is a free variant allophone. Most of all speakers and listeners don't care about whether 鼻濁音 is used or not.
鼻濁音 is not taught in school in Japan. I didn't know the word or the existance of that kind of pronunciation in Japanese language until twenty. Wiki, too, says that the use of 鼻濁音 tends to be declining today.
鼻濁音 - Wikipedia
(all in Japanese)
I'm assuming you meant ironic instead of ironical. Pretty ironic that someone is criticizing a member helping another member, especially in a language they're not even capable of speaking fluently. I'm sure there are plenty of things I'm not familiar enough with in English and would likely link to wikipedia as well. It's not like this is a peer reviewed paper or Toritoribe-san has anyone with enough information to refute the article.lol How ironical it is that the language section of this website is actually lead by someone who needs to copy from Wiki of all things to back up his posts when a young Japanese-learner from across the ocean can actually hear the difference!