moyou, mikomi, gacchi

[Kirakira1232]

Hey guys

I'm sorry I'm not on an IME enabled PC at the moment because my laptop is in the repair shop

I'm have a question about mikomi, moyou, gacchi...and I'm wondering if I'm on the right track.

Mikomi - prospects, expect
Moyou - likelihood, appearance pattern

Are mikomi and moyou different in terms of likelihood? I've been told they are both used when something is expected or likely eg.

hareru tokoro ga ooi mikomi/moyou desu
Sunny skies are expected for many areas.

I'm also told that gacchi is also is attached to the masu stem of a verb to indicate likelihood eg.

Kumorigacchi - tends to be cloudy
arigacchi - likely to exist
hanashigacchi - a likely story.

Is there any big difference between mikomi, moyou and gacchi that I should know?

Again I apologise for all the romaji!

Hontou ni arigatou gozaimashita~!

 

[Elizabeth]

Hey guys
I'm sorry I'm not on an IME enabled PC at the moment because my laptop is in the repair shop at the moment
I'm have a question about mikomi, moyou, gacchi...and I'm wondering if I'm on the right track.
Mikomi - prospects, expect
Moyou - likelihood, appearance pattern

Moyou for likelihood or prospects is really tough to use correctly. For one thing, because it is not the major definition and without a doubt will create even more confusion when not put in an ambiguous (read non suitable) context. In the sense of "expectation," the word is more along the lines "at the rate things are going," "the way it's looking now..." as an attempt to judge an overall trend or set of circumstances. My impression anyway.

Most cases for likelihood require "mikomi" or "kanosei" etc.

Are mikomi and moyou different in terms of likelihood? I've been told they are both used when something is expected or likely eg.
hareru tokoro ga ooi mikomi/moyou desu
Sunny skies are expected for many areas.

I've never heard "hareru tokoro ga ooi moyou" (a pattern/appearance of clearing?) but "hareru tokoro ga ooi mikomi" is fine. (It promises to clear up in a lot of places). Although a weather forecaster will likely use "deshou."

I'm also told that gacchi is also is attached to the masu stem of a verb to indicate likelihood eg.
Kumorigacchi - tends to be cloudy
arigacchi - likely to exist
hanashigacchi - a likely story.
Is there any big difference between mikomi, moyou and gacchi that I should know?
Again I apologise for all the romaji!
Hontou ni arigatou gozaimashita~!

Ahh, one of those romaji pitfalls. It's gachi, not gacchi.
And the meaning expresses the idea that, as a general rule, something or someone tends to do or is liable/apt to do or be in a certain condition. So it's more general than the expectation or probablity for a specific situation.

私たちは怠け者になりがちだ。
わたしはものを忘れがちだ。。。。

 

[Kirakira1232]

Ah~! domo arigatou Elizabeth-san. Thanks with the gachi. I really dislike typing in romaji ><;;; I want my laptop back ; ;

So I guess I should stick with mikomi for now. I was wondering what the nuance difference was with moyou since it means "pattern or appearance" maybe its just one of those things that are hard to explain, you just "know" when to use it after you've lived in Japan for a while.

I was also wondering...you know how there is "Koitsu, Soitsu and Aitsu"? I've heard there is also "doitsu" (no this is not referring to Germans). I'm guessing "doitsu" would mean "which guy" or something like that....since "Koitsu, soitsu, and aitsu" are "This guy, that guy and that guy over there" respectively. I've just not really heard doitsu much in any kind of context.

 

[Elizabeth]

I was also wondering...you know how there is "Koitsu, Soitsu and Aitsu"? I've heard there is also "doitsu" (no this is not referring to Germans). I'm guessing "doitsu" would mean "which guy" or something like that....since "Koitsu, soitsu, and aitsu" are "This guy, that guy and that guy over there" respectively. I've just not really heard doitsu much in any kind of context.

Doitsu I think is simply "who," meaning it could be when you're trying to talk about anybody ? Not necessarily related to being a guy....I've never thought about that word, though, so I really have no idea...


"Doitsu" wa "who" da to omoimasuga, donna toki ni tsukatte ii ka zenzen wakaranai desuyone. Demo sono imi ni wa "guy" wa kanarazushimo fukumarete inai deshou ?

 

[Ashikaga]

hanashigacchi - a likely story.

A likely story would be "arigachi na hanashi" ot "yoku aru hanashi".


As for DOITSU, Kirakira's guess was correct. It indeed means "which person" in most cases. This word, like AITSU SOITSU & KOITSU, really chooses the character of the person who speaks it.
It is mostly used by someone who is "a little rough around the edges", so to speak. People (mostly men) tend to use it when they are angry. I will give a couple of examples.

A home owner finds one of the windows of his house is shattered by a baseball. He goes out to the playground next to his house and shouts to the group of kids who are playing baseball there.
" Madogarasu wo watta no wa doitsu da!!!" (Which one of you broke the window!?)

A Yakuza type individual is walking down a street. He steps on a dog poo, slips and fall. You cannot help but chuckle. The man picks himself up and say,
" Ima waratta no wa doitsu da..." ( Which one of you just laughed?)

In both cases, DOITSU can be replaced with DARE with no change in the meaning. If anything, DOITSU sounds a bit more threatening.

 

[Kirakira1232]

Doitsu I think is simply "who," meaning it could be when you're trying to talk about anybody ? Not necessarily related to being a guy....I've never thought about that word, though, so I really have no idea...


"Doitsu" wa "who" da to omoimasuga, donna toki ni tsukatte ii ka zenzen wakaranai desuyone. Demo sono imi ni wa "guy" wa kanarazushimo fukumarete inai deshou ?

Well I've always been told that aitsu, koitsu etc. are predominantly used among guys. I kind of thought of it in a colloquial sense like how we say "How's it going guys?" to a group of friends regardless of whether there are both sexes in the group. So I dont think its "exclusive" to guys just more predominantly used among guys.

I guess I dont have to worry about doitsu too much~! Thanks for the examples Ashikaga-san~!

Ashikaga-san, Elizabeth-san~! watashi to oshiete arigatou gozaimashita~!

 

[Toritoribe]

"Moyou" tends to be used in the hearsay situation. So it's hardly used for the speaker's self.

今日中にレポートが出来上がるもようです。
Kyou juu ni REPO-TO ga dekiagaru moyou desu.
(Someone not the speaker is making the report.)

今日中にレポートが出来上がる見込みです。
Kyou juu ni REPO-TO ga dekiagaru mikomi desu.
(The speaker, or someone else, is making the report.)

hanashigacchi - a likely story.

As ASHIKAGA explained, "hanashi" in "hanashigachi" is not from the noun "hanashi; story" but from the verb "hansasu; to speak/talk". So it means "tends to speak/talk."

あの人はいつも余計な一言を話しがちだ。
Ano hito wa itsumo yokeina hitokoto wo hanashigachi da.

 

[Kirakira1232]

Ah~! Naruhodo...

That makes sense....if moyou is used like "hearsay" since it means "appearance or pattern of". I'll have to note that down.

Totoribe-san mo arigatou gozaimashita.

 

[Elizabeth]

"Moyou" tends to be used in the hearsay situation. So it's hardly used for the speaker's self.
今日中にレポートが出来上がるもようです。
Kyou juu ni REPO-TO ga dekiagaru moyou desu.
(Someone not the speaker is making the report.)
今日中にレポートが出来上がる見込みです。
Kyou juu ni REPO-TO ga dekiagaru mikomi desu.
(The speaker, or someone else, is making the report.)

Oh, yes...Genba kara XXX no Moyou wo tsutaeru. Relate a situation from the scene.

I also found in the dictionary this sentence : "Ressha wa okureru moyou da."
That is speculation based on either personal observation of being a customer waiting on the platform or waiting for someone on the train ?? I'm guessing...


And one more thing -- if it is used in a weather case, for example "Amemoyou desu" this means there are "signs of rain" or "it looks like rain," or "storm clouds are brewing," right ? Different than "Amegachi" or "Tsuyu desu."

As ASHIKAGA explained, "hanashi" in "hanashigachi" is not from the noun "hanashi; story" but from the verb "hansasu; to speak/talk". So it means "tends to speak/talk."
あの人はいつも余計な一言を話しがちだ。
Ano hito wa itsumo yokeina hitokoto wo hanashigachi da.

Ah, yes. "totemo yoku shaberu hito" (An extremely chatty person...) mitaina kanji desune.

 

[Elizabeth]

Well I've always been told that aitsu, koitsu etc. are predominantly used among guys. I kind of thought of it in a colloquial sense like how we say "How's it going guys?" to a group of friends regardless of whether there are both sexes in the group. So I dont think its "exclusive" to guys just more predominantly used among guys.
I guess I dont have to worry about doitsu too much~! Thanks for the examples Ashikaga-san~!
Ashikaga-san, Elizabeth-san~! watashi to oshiete arigatou gozaimashita~!

"You guys" I would say 君たち maybe ？

 

[epigene]

I also found in the dictionary this sentence : "Ressha wa okureru moyou da."
That is speculation based on either personal observation of being a customer waiting on the platform or waiting for someone on the train ?? I'm guessing...

The speculation can also be based on a report of a problem with the train happening on its way to the railway station.

And one more thing -- if it is used in a weather case, for example "Amemoyou desu" this means there are "signs of rain" or "it looks like rain," or "storm clouds are brewing," right ? Different than "Amegachi" or "Tsuyu desu."

Amemoyou can be "sign" of rain, but it can now be used to state that it is raining right now.
"Mado no soto wa amemoyou desu."

JFYI, "amegachi" means "prone to rain" or "rains frequently." "Tsuyu desu" means "it is [the] rainy season."

Ah, yes. "totemo yoku shaberu hito" (An extremely chatty person...) mitaina kanji desune.

"Hitokoto ooi" doesn't necessarily mean the person is chatty. It means "one word too many," saying something that shouldn't have been said.

 

[Elizabeth]

The speculation can also be based on a report of a problem with the train happening on its way to the railway station.
Amemoyou can be "sign" of rain, but it can now be used to state that it is raining right now.
"Mado no soto wa amemoyou desu."

Ahh, hontou desune. Shiranakatta. Doumo arigatou epigene-san!

Demo... "Ame ga futte iru" toki ni, tabun "amemoyou" to ha futsuu iimasenne. "Soto ha dou? Ameda(yo)" nado no hou ga shizen deshou...


And even if raindrops aren't falling this very second, "ameda" still may become appropriate if the sky only looks like rain (rainy weather/uten). (Amega furisouna soramoyou....)

"Ameda" to iu no ha, sono shunkan ni ame ga furanakte mo, uten da to omoeba, konoyouni ieru deshoune.

 

[epigene]

Ahh, hontou desune. Shiranakatta. Doumo arigatou epigene-san!

Demo... "Ame ga futte iru" toki ni, tabun "amemoyou" to ha futsuu iimasenne. "Soto ha dou? Ameda(yo)" nado no hou ga shizen deshou...

Tokoroga tsukaundesune, korega.

Genzai ame ga futteiru yousu wo hyougen shimasu. Nanode, "kyou wa amemoyou" (it's raining today) toka "amemoyou nagara takusan no hito ga kitekureta" (a lot of people came despite rain(y weather)" nado to tsukaimasu.

 

[Elizabeth]

Tokoroga tsukaundesune, korega.
Genzai ame ga futteiru yousu wo hyougen shimasu. Nanode, "kyou wa amemoyou" (it's raining today) toka "amemoyou nagara takusan no hito ga kitekureta" (a lot of people came despite rain(y weather)" nado to tsukaimasu.

Sou iu imi de ha, 'uten' to 'amemoyou' to onaji you na kotoba mitai desu...

 

[Kirakira1232]

Wow it seems like there are a lot of ways to say "Its raining"

Thanks guys

 

[Ashikaga]

どうでもいいことみたいなのでこのポストは削除しました。