More About 皆

xminus1 · 15 Dec 2019

I have questions translating 皆 in the following two sentences:

皆で飲んでしまいました。When I first read this I though it meant "I drank it with everyone", (the context here is that a bottle of wine is missing), but the textbook translation is "we drank it all". The textbook is I'm sure correct, but why?

太郎君は元気だし、親切だし、友達は皆太郎君が好きですよ。I really don't know what the best translation should be here. "Taro is enthusiastic, considerate, and all his friends like him"? The last clause doesn't seem to be saying much, which means I'm probably not understanding it properly.

Can anyone help me with these sentences?

Thanks!

raikado · 15 Dec 2019

xminus1 said:
皆で飲んでしまいました。When I first read this I though it meant "I drank it with everyone", (the context here is that a bottle of wine is missing), but the textbook translation is "we drank it all". The textbook is I'm sure correct, but why?

I think you are misunderstanding what "all" stands for. "We drank it all" = "We drank it completely". "We" corresponds to 皆で, but a more literal translation would be "together". The "completely" meaning comes from ～てしまいました.

xminus1 said:
太郎君は元気だし、親切だし、友達は皆太郎君が好きですよ。I really don't know what the best translation should be here. "Taro is enthusiastic, considerate, and all his friends like him"? The last clause doesn't seem to be saying much, which means I'm probably not understanding it properly.

し is used here to enumerate reasons for why all his friends like him.

xminus1 · 16 Dec 2019

Thank you, raikado-san

raikado · 16 Dec 2019

Also, I am not sure what the context for the second sentence is, but I looked at it again and it probably makes more sense as "Taro is enthusiastic and considerate so all MY friends like him".

xminus1 · 16 Dec 2019

My fault, raikado-san, I should have provided the full context:

女：先生、太郎は学校でどうですか。

男：太郎君は元気だし、親切だし、友達は皆太郎君が好きですよ。

Your most recent response clearly shows how important context is, and how much it can change meaning!

Thanks again

raikado · 16 Dec 2019

Then I think your initial translation in perfectly fine. The teacher is simply enumerating how Taro is at school. You said that "友達は皆太郎君が好きですよ。" doesn't seem to be saying much, but I think it's reasonable for a teacher to mention that when a parent asks how their child is doing at school.

xminus1 · 16 Dec 2019

Thank you, raikado-san.

"All his friends like him" seemed redundant to me, so I thought I'd missed something in understanding the construction. After all, friends are supposed to like each other.

Now, if 皆 were to be taken as an adverb, (I just noticed on Jisho that it can mean "completely"), then it could mean "His friends really like Taro". That makes more sense to me. Particularly as you explained that this final clause should be understood as having an implicit それで at its start, which would mean it is the logical consequence of the first two clauses, (Taro is enthusiastic, Taro is considerate, and so his friends really like him...).

So to sum up, I had a feeling that I was having a problem with 皆 and wasn't sure where it should belong, modifying 友達, or as an adverb modifying 好きです. I don't have enough knowledge of sentence structure to be confident.

raikado · 16 Dec 2019

皆（みな）の意味 - goo国語辞書
２（副詞的に用いて）残らず。ことごとく。すべて。みんな。

皆 can be used as an adverb, but it means "everything"/"everyone", not "completely". For example:

皆を英語で訳す - goo辞書英和和英
チーズは皆食べられてしまった = All of the cheese has been eaten.

The translation, "His friends really like Taro", is impossible.

xminus1 said:
"All his friends like him" seemed redundant to me, so I thought I'd missed something in understanding the construction. After all, friends are supposed to like each other.

I think you are just overthinking this. I am often guilty of doing this myself.

Also, I'd like to clarify what I said about し:

Since his mother asks the teacher how Taro is at school, the teacher enumerates some things about Taro ("he is lively, kind and all his friends like him").
The sentence could be interpreted as "He is lively and kind so all his friends like him", but I don't think it fits the context. Maybe if his mother specifically asked how he gets along with others? In this case し would be used with this meaning:

２前に挙げた事柄を原因・理由として下の事柄に続ける意を表す。から。ので。

Click to expand...

(しの意味 - goo国語辞書)

xminus1 · 16 Dec 2019

Excellent, raikado-san. Thank you very much!

Toritoribe · 18 Dec 2019

皆 is usually put right after the word when it's used as an adverb, meaning "everything/everyone of it".
e.g.
友達は皆太郎君が好きですよ
今回の不始末は皆私の責任です
チーズは皆食べられてしまった
10冊本がある。皆、私の本です。
(The second sentence actually means 10冊の本は皆、私の本です.)

Thus, if the first example sentence is ワインを皆飲んでしまいました。, it means "all of wine", not "all of us/we".

Notice that で is not after 皆 in the sentence above. 皆で means "all of us/we" even in the word order ワインを皆で飲んでしまいました。. However, で can be attached to 皆 as "all of that", for instance ビールとワイン皆で何本ありますか, so the context is the main key, as always.

xminus1 · 18 Dec 2019

Thank you very much, Toritoribe-san

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