Mono ? Koto?

[tomato]

ano sumimasen

minna san

mono to koto to donna chigau des ka?
What's the different between those two words?

 

[Toritoribe]

Generally, "mono" refers to a concrete thing or person. In contrast, "koto" refers to an idea or action.

hope this helps

 

[Glenn]

Also, Japanese people don't say minna-san. It's either mina, minna, or mina-san.

 

[tomato]

☝ arigatou Glenn san,

Toribe san, can you give me some common word list that usually use mono and koto, my nihon jin friend ever explain this ,but I forget.
Doumo arigatou

 

[undrentide]

I think there was a thread about the difference between もの
and こと but I cannot find it...
Instead I found a similar thread from Tae Kim's website:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3872

 

[Toritoribe]

床を走るものを見ました。; Yuka wo hashiru mono wo mimashita.
I saw something running on the floor.

走ることが好きです。; Hashiru koto ga suki desu.
I like running.

For instance, "hashiru mono" in the first sentense refers to the running man, animal, machine, or something like that, whereas "hashiru koto" in the second one means running as an idea or concept.

Just one more tip. "Arigatou" can't be used in advance. If you want to say "thanks in advance," the equivalent in Japanese is "yoroshiku onegaishimasu.";-)

 

[Mike Cash]

☝ arigatou Glenn san,
Toribe san, can you give me some common word list that usually use mono and koto, my nihon jin friend ever explain this ,but I forget.
Doumo arigatou

Broadly speaking, if you can touch it...."mono" (table, chair, car, book). If you can't touch it...."koto" (love, etc).

 

[Damicci]

Curve ball:
かいもの kaimono = shopping
But it is meant for items purchased which would make it tangible but add する to it and it becomes an action.

 

[-Rudel-]

Toritoribe,

Do you actually have to use Koto or Mono in the examples you gave? I said these senteneces to my wife and she completely understood what I said without Koto or Mono.

Or maybe she was just being conservative.

 

[Glenn]

I take it you mean these two:

床を走るものを見ました。
走ることが好きです。

How did you say them without もの・こと? I guess they could be understood (doesn't seem likely for the first one), but not really grammatical. Well, I guess 走るが好きだ may be borderline; I know 自分の目で見るがいい is good, but the meaning is different (seems like it's closer to 見ればいい). 床を走るを見ました seems like it'd be interpreted more as 床を走るところを見ました to me, but that may just be me.

 

[-Rudel-]

Yes those 2:
This is how I said it.

床を走るを見ました。
走るが好きです。

I don't suppose that when using an action verb before the object/subject marker could cause the use of もの and こと.

 

[Glenn]

No, usually it's the other way around: the particles get dropped. For example, these are much more common versions of the above than the two you gave: 床を走るもの見ました。走るの好きです。That second one sounds really child-like to me, though.

 

[-Rudel-]

Ok, I think I see what is going on now. The sentence is stating running, and the person being informed needs to know it is "running" you can do, or "running" something else is doing that can't be seen, heard, touched etc.

 

[Toritoribe]

As Glenn-san pointed out, the sentenses 床を走るを見ました。, 走るが好きです。 are not grammatically correct, at least in modern Japanese. You can say (何かが)床を走るのを見ました。, 走るのが好きです。 with using the nominalizer の. In a grammatical point of view, 床を走るもの is a noun phrase that the clause 床を走る is modifying the pronoun もの, whereas (何かが)床を走るの is a noun clause which is nominalized by の.

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EDIT:
こと in 走ること is considered as a nominalizer.
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In archaic grammar, a clause can be used as a noun without the nominalizer, 我昨夜何者か床を走るを見たり or something like that.;-)

 

[tomato]

@Toritoribe,Mike Cash,Damicci
yoroshiku onegaishimasu