Moderator's participation in threads

First off just to let everyone know this is by no means a complaint of the team that moderates here, it is a comment and suggestion for the team here. This thread is born from the following comment;

Since becoming a moderator, I've held back my opinion on more occassions than I can count.

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made by Mikawa Ossan on the following post;
Does NHK fee collector keep knocking on your door for money? OFFTOPIC: Racist comment

I appreciate his candor and honesty for replying as such. However I dont think that being a moderator or administrator here should prevent a person from participating in a discussion. I really do not like reading things like...."I've held back my opinion", just because the person is a moderator.

I am not 100% sure but I often get the impression that Mikawa Ossan is not alone in his thinking either, I could be wrong, but I think it is a safe bet to say that the other mods also do not participate in controversial topics.

I suggest here....
That moderators quite literally take off their moderator hats when they have a comment or reply to make that may be controversial themselves.

Announce to the participants throught the subject line of the reply; I'm taking off my moderator hat here...." or something similar that let's everyone know that hey so and so moderator is posting as a member and not a mod.

I say let the mod's participate freely as well, just ensure to let members know if and when you are participating on a controversial thread that you are doing so as a member and not as a moderator/member, like it or not there is a difference.

Any comments people?

To express your own opinion on a subject is never easy and Im sure you would agree with that Obeika. And yes sometimes I would like a moderator or admin to say what comes from their heart and not from being a moderator. And yes mods do have a very good job to do, I even got my wrist slapped by one of them recently for being naughty.

To express your own opinion on a subject is never easy and Im sure you would agree with that Obeika. And yes sometimes I would like a moderator or admin to say what comes from their heart and not from being a moderator. And yes mods do have a very good job to do,

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Exactly, if they are also forced to reconsider whether or not to participate in a thread because of their position I think that is improper.

However if they just jump in and make some controversial comment without letting people know ahead of time where there are coming from as a moderator or not, then I think that is a problem as well. Edited to clarify here: Not saying that it has happened up to know, at least to me anyway!

But purely not participate is wrong too.

I even got my wrist slapped by one of them recently for being naughty.

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Been there, done that

I hate being serious .

I spent 45 years arguing and debating with my father, when he died I decided I'd give it up for life. I plan to be a joker and never think another deep thought if possible.

Uncle Frank

To participate in a thread can be alot of fun, Im sure we would all agree about that. But I am sure there must be times when a mod or admin has to bite their tongue and not say what they truly want to say. I know I had to bite my tongue yesterday when tracing an IP address on a site I help run.

I would like to see moderators and admin being able to comment openly without the mod/admin hat on, most that I have had the pleasure to chat to seem good decent people.

Lets see what happens..............

I hold back as a practical matter.

Let's face it; the moderating staff are "public figures" at whatever board they moderate, and therefore their comments are rightly scrutinized to a degree that other members are not subject to. This comes into play when active moderation becomes necessary on a thread. The last thing as a moderator that I want to happen if for people to think that I'm taking sides or taking action against someone just because I disagree with his or her opinion. The more I tell my opinion on a thread the more my hands become tied in regards to that thread.

I'm sure each moderator/advisor/admin has his or her own way of thinking about this issue, but I personally am just trying to put the common good first.

I am going to have to agree with Obeika... it sounds like a good enough compromise... and things have been going very well around here lately.

The last thing as a moderator that I want to happen if for people to think that I'm taking sides or taking action against someone just because I disagree with his or her opinion.

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First off thanks for replying here.
Ok this is what I am refering to, you have thoughts and opinions as well, just because you are a moderator should not mean that you can not participate out of concern on whether or not someone is going to agree with you or not.

If your participation, either way adds to the discussion I dont see that as being fair that you feel you can't participate just because you are a moderator.

Let's face it; the moderating staff are "public figures" at whatever board they moderate, and therefore their comments are rightly scrutinized to a degree that other members are not subject to.

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So....it doesnt mean they are not human either. This is just a message board and not North Korea, I get the impression at times, generally speaking and this comment is not directed towards anyone in particular either, that people take things too seriously in regards to their "jobs" here.

Hence the suggestion Taking off my moderator hat here to reply......
If you do that then we all know that you are not making a reply as Mikawa the moderator, but as Mikawa the member.

Look you guys were chosen for your jobs for a reason, that is why it is a team, if you get involved in a thread then step back from moderating the thread you are involved in, let everyone know. It's not like there are that many threads where this would be necessary but there are ones that get involved. Others can watch and if necessary moderator the moderator/member if necessary.

I know you guys have a moderators fora to discuss issues, let them know there. "Hey team I am involved in this thread, so I am not going to moderate it...ok, thanks!"

I'm taking sides or taking action against someone

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Taking sides or taking action are two totally different things, I am a bit surprised that you would think this way.

but I personally am just trying to put the common good first.

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At the expense of a rather respected voice here.

So to me at least the "common good" is suffering more by non participation, something to think about.

Obeika said:

So....it doesnt mean they are not human either. This is just a message board and not North Korea, I get the impression at times, generally speaking and this comment is not directed towards anyone in particular either, that people take things too seriously in regards to their "jobs" here.

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I'm sorry, I had to hold down a chuckle at this. There are two things I can say to this.

If we didn't take our "jobs" seriously, it would be unfair to everyone here who takes the time to think out their opinions and post. Although it's not the same as "real life", a great number of members take what transpires here very seriously (something you really learn to appreciate after joining the moderating staff here!) and expect nothing less from the "governing body" of the forum.

And this leads me to the second point. Members take the actions of the staff here very seriously. I'm sure that you can appreciate this.

Hence the suggestion Taking off my moderator hat here to reply......
If you do that then we all know that you are not making a reply as Mikawa the moderator, but as Mikawa the member.

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Some would argue that there is no separation. Remember the heady days leading up to the current management style?

Taking sides or taking action are two totally different things, I am a bit surprised that you would think this way.

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I think you misunderstood me. I am not equating them.

At the expense of a rather respected voice here.
So to me at least the "common good" is suffering more by non participation, something to think about.

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Remember that once upon a time this "respected voice" got banned because of such active participation. I most certainly do not want to become like that.

Besides, it'S not like I never participate anymore. I do participate when a topic piques my interest. But when it looks like a fight is brewing, I will step back to maintain my neutrality. (Yes, I 'm thinking of the pre-split NHK thread.)

sabro said:

I am going to have to agree with Obeika... it sounds like a good enough compromise... and things have been going very well around here lately.

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Mods should hold to the job of moderating w/out opinion in those fora they're responsible for. They should feel free to offer their views as respected members in other all discussions.

But however true it may be, discretion really is the better part of valor in my opinion when it comes to revelations like "I've had to hold my opinion back on more occasions than I can count" that can be interpreted ambiguously and do nothing to advance moderation on that particular thread.

Unless you're signaling that you're prepared to either change your style of mangagement and how you approach your job or deal with members who are interested in trying to "mine" your opinions as a mod out of their own self-interest. Or unnecessarily opening yourself up for further grilling, at the very least.

Obeika said:

So....it doesnt mean they are not human either. This is just a message board and not North Korea, I get the impression at times, generally speaking and this comment is not directed towards anyone in particular either, that people take things too seriously in regards to their "jobs" here.

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I really thought this forum was about North Korea.... mmm weird.

But yeah, I guess I can be too serious about my job in here so now and again, but that's because I do see my position here as a job... AND NO I DON'T GE PAID FOR IT . And when I am doing a job, I want to try to do it as good as possible.

I am one of the mods, whom are thinking to hold back in threads because we are mods... because we have a to moderate the place so we should try to not always put our personal opinion in it too much.

Interesting.

I have always taken the point of view that moderation was to function more as a balancing act for the playing field. For that reason, those who, by the discernment of the higher powers, have appeared to be of such nature--for the most part, and at least during the time that I've been active on JREF--have been offered the position of 'moderators/advisiors.'

Being extreme may at most times depend on the relative broadness of the spectrum given for the background from which relevance of any topic under discussion can be seen, and thus, by that, what is extreme can be different for one who does not include that same range of background for a subject.

I have also always been pretty much--as far as I can tell--the sort of which Mikkawa Ossan has touched on above; I see no separation. Part of the reason for that is due to the outlook I have just mentioned. When I post, it is always within the range of moderation that I firstly reason to be the background for the subject at hand, and then with the following emotional tags--all in moderation.

Now, someone could challenge my opinion or my reason for any particular post and I would be glad to defend it, but if I deemed that a full explanation of the spectrum background which 'relativizes' it be necessary in order to draw out the conception, then I may have to choose, for expediency, to decline explanation and just put forward a dogmatic 'that's the way it is.' In such an outcome, would it not have been even making better usage of the resources to have waived stating my opinion in the first place?

So, what I mean is that I have always spoken as a member here. Being in a position to moderate has not--as far as introspection on my part has revealed to me--caused me not to post an opinion where I thought it could at least be carried through without too much detail or cost.

(I will admit, however, that if the old 'Serious Discussion' fora, with the philosophy and religious areas under it, were in full swing, I'd be spending most of my time there, and would be going into the finer, long-drawn-out details.)

Therefore, let it be known with this, that I always intend to speak and post as a member of JREF. In that I am presently in the position to 'police' with the objective of keeping extremes (in most but not all fields of matters that come before the 'governing body') abated, makes no difference in what I state on the topic of subjects under discussion on any thread.

Also, I do not admit to being infallible, nor to having unending patience, so feel free to challenge my opinion on a topic or subject or matter under discussion--by doing so, you are only challenging a fellow JREF member with or without any 'authority' owned due to position. and that's the way it is.

Hmm i see the point but i can understand why sometimes Mods do have to hold back. At times members have said things like "Your an idiot" or worse lol but really even if a Mod thought that they cant say it. I guess rather then enter a thread at 60% its better not to take part at all. Like MO ive often stayed away from threads as i can see where they are going and cant be doing with the pointless tit for tat argueing and in those types of threads i dont think the Mods can afford to voice an opinion even if they wanted to. On another forum a Mod there is constantly argueing with other members and it just makes the forum look shoddy IMO. While its always welcoming to read what someone truely thinks or believes i can also understand why Mods hold back. However if they were to argue a point i also wouldnt mind or back down if i thought i was right so if they were to take part i wouldnt feel like i should say less. But as we know 5 might not mind then another 5 would.

because we have a to moderate the place so we should try to not always put our personal opinion in it too much.

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The point is though your opinions, thoughts or ideas should not have to be left by the wayside purely because you are a moderator or admin here.

Mars Man said it very well when he commented;

what I mean is that I have always spoken as a member here. Being in a position to moderate has not--as far as introspection on my part has revealed to me--caused me not to post an opinion where I thought it could at least be carried through without too much detail or cost.

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From that I take it to mean that he is a member first, moderator second.
If the rest of you view yourselves as moderators/admin first and members second then I guess we all are stuck and there will be no way for you to participate openly in some of the threads here. I will remember that.

Quite a shame I might add as well, you all might have something valuable to add or even a rant or opinion to make but you hold back because you are a mod.

Also, I do not admit to being infallible, nor to having unending patience, so feel free to challenge my opinion on a topic or subject or matter under discussion--by doing so, you are only challenging a fellow JREF member with or without any 'authority' owned due to position. and that's the way it is.

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Thank God noone of us are infallible, but I wish I had unending patience. I also appreciate your candor and honesty here.

I'm glad you shared this, very well said indeed.

However I am sure you know there are laws about separation of church and state. No fraternizing with the lower ranks and such.....just joking a little here. :sorry:

@Obeika

I think that you should know that the mod and admin team used to participate fully...then some people (one person) couldn't seem to seperate his job fuction and his personal feelings. If you are capable of doing that (and most people should be) then there is no reason why you should hold back in your posts.

If you are participating in a thread and you feel it is taking a wrong turn, then you should not be the one to moderate that thread, but rather contact a third or fourth party to step in and be impartial.

I have never had a problem with mod/admin expressing their opinions, feelings, ideas in a thread. The only problem I ever had was when GOD got his feelings hurt and started throwing around lightning bolts.

I have never had a problem with mod/admin expressing their opinions, feelings, ideas in a thread. The only problem I ever had was when GOD got his feelings hurt and started throwing around lightning bolts.

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Quite right, I dont have any problems with them participating at all either, it is the nonparticipation that gave birth to this thread.

I would rather in fact have them participate and share their thoughts and opinions on the more serious topics that arise from time to time, and have them feel free, without having to worry about their "position" as such, to do so.Edited to add; No matter the content or opinion stated either, also whether or not a side has been taken for or against the issue at hand.

Obeika said:

I would rather in fact have them participate and share their thoughts and opinions on the more serious topics that arise from time to time, and have them feel free, without having to worry about their "position" as such, to do so.

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You mean serious in the limited sense of politically or socially 'controversial,' right ? The occasional threads that for whatever reason look like they could degenerate far enough to require 'active moderation' and in many cases end up eventually locked ? Otherwise, this board is steeped in serious topics that are handled by mature people everyday without incident and in quite an amazingly reasonable, moderate fashion.

I think that you should know that the mod and admin team used to participate fully...then some people (one person) couldn't seem to seperate his job fuction and his personal feelings.

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I don't know if that was the only thing that changed Thomas' participation but it may have been a big deciding factor. He still should apologize in my opinion but that's another story, going too far off the reservation for the moment...

Otherwise, this board is steeped in serious topics that are handled by mature people everyday without incident and in quite a reasonable, moderate fashion.

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Be that as it may, the moderators dont usually participate on these threads either, for one reason or another.


Also that the board is "steeped in serious topics" is of course your opinion.

I don't hold back, even if I am a moderator. I'm of the principle that we have the same right to say what we like to say. Our job is to keep things in place, and another moderator can in case necessairy slap us on the wrists. (Dutch likes to do that, even though I ignore him most of the times ;P)

Ok now we have had quite a few comments from various moderators and admin, nevertheless it would be nice if now and then you could take that hat off, Im sure some of you could quite easily do it.

What is this hat you speak of? I never got a hat... damn...

But seriously... speaking for myself, I don't feel I "hold back" If I don't like something you've posted I will be the first to let you know. Still, I try to respect EVERYONE'S voice and the right to their own opinion even if it disagrees with my own. I have no qualms about dissenting in a popular majority or taking a controversial approach in real life and this reflects in my style of moderation as well. Anything less is just plain boring imo.