"Like a Japanese" or "as if he is (a) Japanese"

hirashin · 23 Sep 2012

Hello, native English speakers.

I have a question.

Which sentences would be used?
(a) Tom speaks Japanese like a Japanese.
(b) Tom speaks Japanese like he is a Japanese.
(c) Tom speaks Japanese like he was a Japanese.
(d) Tom speaks Japanese like he were a Japanese.
(e) Tom speaks Japanese as if he is a Japanese.
(f) Tom speaks Japanese as if he was a Japanese.
(g) Tom speaks Japanese as if he were a Japanese.

Are (f) and (g) old-fashioned?

Do you think of any other sentences saying the same thing?

Hirashin

ewww · 24 Sep 2012

Sorry, I am not native speaker.

I'd use (a), (b) and (e), just because "Tome speaks" now (simple present)
it could cause questions like: "What did happen with Tom after he was a japanese".
Of course it depends on context. BTW, I would not use 'he were a Japanese",
just because I am not sure if he is some kind of royalty.

Just 2C

Grandpa Frank · 24 Sep 2012

Having Japanese in the sentence twice sounds a bit strange to me. I would say "Tom speaks Japanese like a native." (g) sounds best to me , but I might add "person" on the very end.

Uncle Frank

nice gaijin · 24 Sep 2012

I'm not aware of anyone who refers to a Japanese person as "a Japanese"

I Am A Baka · 24 Sep 2012

Yeah, I agree. The original sentences sound strange to begin with. Personally, I'd agree with Uncle Frank. "Tom speaks Japanese like a native." sounds the best in English.

hirashin · 24 Sep 2012

Thank you all for your help.

How about these? Would they sound strange?

(1) I wish I could speak English as fluently as you.
(2) Mary talks as if she were [/is] my mother.
(3) I wish you were here with me now.
(4) Fred speaks Japanese as fluently as if he was a native.
(5) I wish I had studied Math more when I was young!
(6) Jane speaks Japanese as fluently as if she had lived in Japan for many years.

Thanks in advance.

Hirashin

Mike Cash · 24 Sep 2012

2: "were". Subjunctive mood takes the past tense, although native speakers get it wrong all the time.

Other than that, perfect.

eeky · 25 Sep 2012

nice gaijin said:
I'm not aware of anyone who refers to a Japanese person as "a Japanese"

I've heard this (similarly "a Chinese"), and I have the sense that it is getting more common, though I have no actual evidence for that. I don't like it – not because it's offensive or anything, but just because it seems like bad English. It's peculiar that some country adjectives double up fine as nouns referring to someone from that country (German, Italian, Iraqi, etc.), others have separate forms (Dane, Swede, Turk, etc.), and yet other countries, such as Japan and China, seem to lack a single word for a person of that nationality.

Mike Cash · 25 Sep 2012

I think that used to be the common way and adding "person" is a more recent development.

eeky · 25 Sep 2012

Oh really, is that right...

Mike Cash · 25 Sep 2012

Don't overlook my weasel word.

I Am A Baka · 25 Sep 2012

6: Grammatically your sentence is good, but it sounds awkward. I'd drop off the "fluently" if I were you. "Jane speaks Japanese as if she had lived in Japan for many years."

But if you actually need to specify that she spoke fluently, then your sentence is correct.

Lu Misho · 25 Sep 2012

i am not native sorry
but i would choose (a) and (e)

and most sentences are wrong (tje sentences in past) because we are talking about present "tom SPEAKS...." so you shouldn't use past...

hirashin · 26 Sep 2012

Lu Misho san, konnichiwa. Hajimemashite. Are you from Egypt?

Where in Egypt are you from? From Cairo?

I know your country has become a democracy. But there must be
a lot of problems to solve. Is it safe around where you live?

By the way...
I don't think you understand what the subjunctive mood is.

You should look it up in your English grammar book.

Hirashin

ewww · 26 Sep 2012

hirashin said:
I don't think you understand what the subjunctive mood is.

Apparently, in second sentence "if she were my mother." is "a non-factual condition", and that is S/M
MC is right.

Lu Misho · 26 Sep 2012

thanks for asking, sir
yup, there are problems but it is safe

i would take by your advice. thanks

Trond · 15 Oct 2012

I would say (e) or (g)

hirashin · 15 Oct 2012

Thanks for your help, Trond.

ClarkH · 17 Oct 2012

nice gaijin said:
I'm not aware of anyone who refers to a Japanese person as "a Japanese"

I agree completely. I would change "a Japanese" to "Japanese" in every sentence except for (a), and they would all sound a lot better.

(f) and (g) are not old-fashioned at all. I would prefer these sentences actually. I think the best sentence would be, "Tom speaks Japanese as if he is Japanese." However, they're all a little unnatural, so I agree with others that it's even better to say, "Tom speaks Japanese like a native."

Abz Xhantini · 17 Oct 2012

I would go for d. It's correct. F and G can be used, but I guess they come across as formal? Jope this helps

hirashin · 18 Oct 2012

Thanks for your help, Clark.

Abz Xhantini, hello. Is your first language English or Afrikaans?

Hirashin

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