lang-8 response.

DanialG · 10 Apr 2011

Okay so I just started learning Japanese again, using lang-8, just trying to write stuff that I would actually put in a journal. Going good, getting a lot of corrections and helpful responses. However, I've gotten a response that I don't understand. She was nice enough to put it all in kana as well.

どうしてべんきょうしないのに、アートについてかいたのでしょう？

I can make out the words, but I do not know how to group the characters together. I'm still trying to get used to there not having words spaced out.

Glenn · 10 Apr 2011

どうして勉強しないのに、アートについて書いたのでしょう？
どうしてべんきょうしないのに、アートについてかいたのでしょう？

Man, spacing is a tricky thing in Japanese. Anyway, she's basically asking why you'd write about art if you don't study it. I wonder why she used アート, though. Maybe she though 美学 or 美術 or whatever was too advanced?

DanialG · 10 Apr 2011

Thank you Glenn. Ah, okay, though I don't understand why she said that, when my previous journals said I was studying art. I meant to say I'm not studying art anymore, but I guess I said something completely different.

biasaf · 10 Apr 2011

Sorry for kinda hijacking your thread but I just wanna ask a little question about your sentence there..
Umm..
かいた is a verb while でしょう is an expression.
Why are they connected with の then ?
I tried looking up the internet but couldn't find an answer..

Thank you!

Toritoribe · 10 Apr 2011

Glenn said:
I wonder why she used アート, though. Maybe she though 美学 or 美術 or whatever was too advanced?

アート is more commonly used nowadays. 美術 usually refers to the art as a discipline (e.g. 美術を専攻していた), and 美学 means aesthetics.

biasaf said:
Sorry for kinda hijacking your thread but I just wanna ask a little question about your sentence there..
Umm..
かいた is a verb while でしょう is an expression.
Why are they connected with の then ?
I tried looking up the internet but couldn't find an answer..

Thank you!

Noun-related particles - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide

biasaf · 11 Apr 2011

What is it trying to explain exactly ?
From my understanding the sentence basically says:

どうしてべんきょうしないのに = why, study-not, though
アートについてかいた = art, write about
の = explanation particle according to you
でしょう？= i wonder
Basically "I wonder why you write about art even though you are not learning/studying it"

I'm not sure but you could also look at it that way?:
どうしてべんきょうしないのに, 「アートについてかいた」のでしょう。
While アートについてかいた～の is the explanation 'It is that you write about art' and ～でしょう is the uncertainty marker which has nothing to do with the の。

Or you could rather look at it this way:
どうしてべんきょうしないのに, 「アートについてかいたのでしょう。」
Than it would be 'I wonder if it is that you are writing about art' but it doesn't fit the actual translation :X

Which is the correct?

Glenn · 11 Apr 2011

のだ・のです is completely separate from だろう・でしょう. だろう・でしょう sticks directly on to the end of a sentence to express conjecture, and takes the place of だ・です (since it's a form of them).

If you have アートについて書く and アートについて書くのだ, the corresponding conjectural sentences would be アートについて書くだろう and アートについて書くのだろう, respectively.

Toritoribe said:
アート is more commonly used nowadays. 美術 usually refers to the art as a discipline (e.g. 美術を専攻していた), and 美学 means aesthetics.

I see...

biasaf · 11 Apr 2011

Glenn said:
のだ・のです is completely separate from だろう・でしょう. だろう・でしょう sticks directly on to the end of a sentence to express conjecture, and takes the place of だ・です (since it's a form of them).
If you have アートについて書く and アートについて書くのだ, the corresponding conjectural sentences would be アートについて書くだろう and アートについて書くのだろう, respectively.

So basically だろう・でしょう has nothing to do with the particle の directly in this sentence?
So the right way to organize the sentence will be;
「アートについてかいたの」でしょう

Red = (It is that) you write about art. (according to guidetojapanese.org/particles3.html#part5)
Blue = An expression of conjecture.

Elizabeth · 11 Apr 2011

DanialG said:
Thank you Glenn. Ah, okay, though I don't understand why she said that, when my previous journals said I was studying art. I meant to say I'm not studying art anymore, but I guess I said something completely different.

She understood that you aren't studying it anymore and was indirectly asking for an explanation. In other words, the でしょう？appears to be more out of politeness than a lack of understanding on the part of the responder.

Although it isn't being studied, you wrote about (why did you write about ?) art ??

Toritoribe · 11 Apr 2011

biasaf said:
Blue = An expression of conjecture.

You forget that that's a rhetorical question.;-)

biasaf · 11 Apr 2011

Toritoribe said:
You forget that that's a rhetorical question.;-)

I know it is.
I just want to understand the grammatical structure of the sentence..
I really hate reading a phrase/sentence without completely understanding it :embarasse:

Toritoribe · 11 Apr 2011

Oh, really? I didn't think so because of your reply "An expression of conjecture". As Elizabeth-san explained, でしょう is added for politeness, similar to ですか？.

In this case, どうして is modifying 書いた, i.e., the order of words can be changed to 勉強しないのに、どうしてアートについて書いたのでしょう？. Thus, she was asking to explain the reason why you wrote; 「（勉強しないのに、）どうしてアートについて書いた」の？

lang-8 response.

DanialG

後輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

DanialG

後輩

biasaf

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

biasaf

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

biasaf

先輩

Elizabeth

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

biasaf

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

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