Kozuimi will apologize today.

[Maciamo]

When the summit started on Friday, Mr Koizumi said: "In the past Japan through its colonial rule and aggression caused tremendous damage and suffering for the people of many countries, particularly those of Asian nations.

"Japan squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility."

The wording repeats previous Japanese apologies - but analysts say the international setting gives the statement added weight.

Source]

I may be a bit too harsh, but that is hardly what I call an apology. He is just stating facts about the war, then explains a vague feeling of facing these facts with humility.

As for the facts mentioned, I think that they should be much more specific, mention massacres, rapes, slave labour, sexual slavery, the harsh treatment of POW's and biological experiments, and name all the countries that were victim of these. In fact it would be best to list the atrocities individually for each country. For example, Dutch people were tortured or ill-treated to death as POW's, were taken as slave labour, "comfort women", and may have been used in biological experiments (not sure about this last one), but there hasn't been any massacre (murder of thousands of people) id Dutch civilians to the best of my knowledge.

 

[lexico]

I am impressed, though

"In the past Japan through its colonial rule and aggression caused tremendous damage and suffering for the people of many countries, particularly those of Asian nations.

"Japan squarely faces these facts of history in a spirit of humility."

Well, I know what you're saying, but still that's quite an improvement from "sincere regret."
I wonder what will take to reach the ultimate apology.
I also wonder if this has anything to do with the non-zen Buddhist idea of 窶浪ﾅ津･窶浪ﾅｽﾃｳ, that is gradual attainment to enlightenment thru continuing practice.

 

[A5573A]

Media response on "heartfelt apology" from Beijing

The Chinese state press repeats what PM Koizumi said at the summit in the paper without any comment.

Another mainstream media outlet, SINA, reports that when the press asked the Chinese foreign minister whether the Japanese PM's Statement was a formal apology, he answered, "It depends on how you interpret it (the wording)." They believe even the Korean side could not find any substance in the statement.

 

[Gaki]

A more relevant question:
What if your grandfather raped my grandmother? Do you owe me an apology for the actions of your ancestors? I say NO.

It's easy to say if you were not directly affected by the Japanese actions during the war, i actually do have a friend that is part Japanese because of what happened to her grandmother during the war.
For people like her who were directly affected by the war i dont blame them for being pissed off at all.

An apology isnt much but it's a start to make amends for what has happened.

It doesnt help when you hear news about things such as Japanese officials going to pay respects to war criminals, racism in Japan towards Chinese people, etc...

The cause of these things usually tends to stem from the fact that Japan doesnt seem to recognise it has done anything wrong in the past.

One of my Japanese friends actually messaged me the other day and agreed with the point that the Japanese seem a bit clueless as to why the Chinese do not like them.
If the Japanese do not understand why the Chinese do not like them, it's only going to cause further problems when they retaliate because they feel they are innocent.

Koizumi apologizes and yet the Chinese still say "its not good enough". If Koizumi attends a Shinto shrine which happens to honor 20 Class A war criminals, so be it. Its his religion. I don't see Japan complaining against the statues and portraits of Chairman Mao in Beijing and other cities. He is a war criminal as well.

It isnt good enough, did you not read how x amount of politicians went to pay respects to the yasukuni shrine at the same time he apologised.
Do you not understand the difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people ? It is the Chinese PEOPLE who are demanding an apology, swaying away from the subject with "oh look what the Chinese government did" doesnt excuse Japan or make them any better.

With the kind of opinions people come up with between relations of China and Japan it makes me wonder do you people like war and violence ?

It's not even JUST China that has a problem with Japan, there are many people in Korea/Indonesia/Malaysia/Singapore who still have problems with Japan.
Are you to tell me all these people are wrong ? Maybe it's just the Chinese government being wrong eh ?

 

[PaulTB]

Apparently you need to read it from many different sources to be persuaded.

The "or their representives" came from an article I'm pretty sure you linked to.

I don't need to be persuaded about the figure of 80 - I wasn't disagreeing with that.

I don't know why you insist so much on defending the Japanese side even when it's clear they were wrong.

I'm not defending the 'Japanese side' I'm seeking clarification and precise arguments. (Although that attitude has already cost me rep points ). It is precisely in being logically challenged and shoring up weak points that a position shows its strength.

P.S. To the person who negative rep voted with "Do you really believe that?" on my post. Believe what? I didn't put forward any belief as my own in that post - I simply posted possible interpretations for consideration.

 

[Brooker]

It is true that in the Asian mindset, saving face is important. But it's equally part of their mindset to rather die than apologize or face embarrassment. I think in the eyes of Koizumi, a full on apology would be subjecting every person in Japan to that embarrassment. And if you know anything about the mindset of Asian people, you'll know that he can't do that no matter what. So everyone should just move on.

 

[Sensuikan San]

With the kind of opinions people come up with between relations of China and Japan it makes me wonder do you people like war and violence.

Be gentle folks ....!

Here I go again ....!

An extremely good question .. to which, I feel the answer is possibly ... yes ! Albeit, I hope, unconsciously, and with further qualification....

....and I feel, furthermore, that the evidence for such ... is right here, on this forum ...!

Each post on this and other threads related to this controversial topic, (including some of my own !), have precariously hovered on the edge of slithering down the road toward quite vitriolic diatribe. And why? - this is supposed to be a forum of serious debate.

Because violence, conflict and warfare are part of the condition of at least two of the higher primates - chimpanzees and man ! (Orang-Utangs and Gorillas, bless their souls, seem to have not plumbed the same Simian depths in this regard). Alarmingly this is proven - ask Jane Goodall !

Just look at the various threads discussing this question ... and we see (quite understandable, and reasonable) anger... and escalation.

First - the argument was that Japan should apologise to China/Asia for its historical actions. Jolly good thread(s) - everybody has a fine time bashing each other with increasing finesse.

Then - the wind is taken out of everybody's sails - Japan does apologise !

Everybody happy ?

Nope !

Now it's ...."is the apology good enough"?

Next it's gonna be 'compensation' - (I agree completely, by the way...).

Perhaps Japan might make an offer - given enough pressure or persuasion. If so, though - I have fifty bucks that says a new thread will start : "It's not enough !"

...and the music goes round and round and it comes out here ...!

It's not that we like violence and war - manifestly we do not! It hurts!

It's just that we seem unable to avoid it. It's part of our condition.

It is true that in the Asian mindset, saving face is important. But it's equally part of their mindset to rather die than apologize or face embarrassment. I think in the eyes of Koizumi, a full on apology would be subjecting every person in Japan to that embarrassment. And if you know anything about the mindset of Asian people, you'll know that he can't do that no matter what. So everyone should just move on.

As it happens, Brooker was perhaps wrong on this - it depends upon wether you consider Koizumisan's apology to be "full-on" or not. But, although I may have some reservations (God, I'm trying to be careful!) I simply cannot totally disagree with his final words .....

Distressful though it may still be to a few (and sadly, to be sure, it will be...) perhaps we should all, now ..... move on. There seem to be lottsa higher primates out there ... eager to start new conflicts .... all of which should be addressed !

Sincere Regards,


ﾆ淡ﾆ停?｡ﾆ停?

 

[sabro]

The apology is a start. (For about the tenth time...each time, is undercut by other actions and activities and by the rhetoric of the far right.)

I think many people, including those in China- are more interested in Japanese history textbooks and a more accurate retelling of the events of the last century.

 

[lexico]

Martyrs ?

Paying homage to 14 class A war criminals is itself criminal act.
The list itself is entitled, The Martyrs of the Showa Years.
Martyrs ? *speechless*
If the PM has personal reasons to respect these war machines, why not do it in his own time, in his own space like his living room ?

Using Japanese Gov't employee time spending Japanese taxpayers' money for those visits makes it official government policy, and would be considered bringing shame to Japan.

I'd suggest the PM become a model of conduct for the poeple he is supposed to serve by stopping the visits, by legislating such visits as illegal for gov't employees, and not continue defiling the name of Japan thru shallow behavior which can only draw shunning from the international community.

"Martyrs of the Showa Years"

 

[miles7tp]

to lexico

It is wrong that the class A are more sinful than the class B and the class C.
The class is only a type of crime.
You should not punish the person who compensated for the crime, I think.

 

[miles7tp]

to lexico

And so I go to the Yasukuni Shrine Aug. 15. every year.

 

[梁铠赞]

Action is better than words...Japanese Should destroy the watever shrine...If Japanese wanted to worship the sinful soldier...it shouldn't make public...maybe make it worship at home...

History Book should be make REAL history book...and showing the picture of NanJing Massacare(correct spelling??)...so that the later generation will never do the same mistake anymore...

After I saw the photos of Nanjing massacare(??) I felt so sad...maybe there's my anchestor inside killed by the Japanese T_T

 

[Maciamo]

Action is better than words...Japanese Should destroy the watever shrine...If Japanese wanted to worship the sinful soldier...it shouldn't make public...maybe make it worship at home...

I certainly agree with that. It is unthinkable in Europe to have a shrine dedicated to Nazi leaders anywhere !

 

[梁铠赞]

And so I go to the Yasukuni Shrine Aug. 15. every year.

I believe....evil spirit dwelling inside the shrine...hohohoho....just becareful ^^ they are not shin/kami they are oni...hohohoho....

 

[lexico]

Compensated ? Tell me what was compensated, please ...

And so I go to the Yasukuni Shrine Aug. 15. every year.

As a free individual in your free time, who could stop you ? If even a condemned father is loved by his children, nobody can blame you for loving your countrymen who perished in the service of their motherland. Gov't officials, party members, legislators should do likewise as in your example. But not stepping over the line. Just out of curiosity, do you have a shrine dedicated to the victims of Japanese aggression ? Or the Koreans who fought on your country's behalf ? Or those who perished in the labor efforts, such as those who got hit by the A-bomb in Hiroshima & Nagasaki during their forced labor ? Or were they all paid / voluntary workers ? Please enlighten me if you have any substantiated facts.

It is wrong that the class A are more sinful than the class B and the class C.
The class is only a type of crime.

I think you miss my point.
Did I ever say that class A criminals were worse than class B or class C, or those who went unpunished ?

You should not punish the person who compensated for the crime, I think.

I didn't punish anyone. The Martial Court did, I believe.
But wait; what was compensated ?

Being accused by the prosecutors, arrested with a court order, brought to trial, be given a fair chance to be defended by a defense attorney, be given a chance to have all the evidence of alleged criminal acts examined and cross examined, being sentenced by the court, and having that sentence carried out in due legal process----

Are you telling me that this list amounts to "compensation" for the crimes ?

We must speak a very different language, or there is a serious communication problem between you and me.

And mind you, sir, this wasn't quite August 15, but ON the day of official apology to a victimized country that 160 leading members of the Japanese society, if not government per se, paid the visit to the Yasukuni Shrine.

So let's stay on topic. Please don't comment on what I didn't say.
That, that is simply unfair, and insinuating, too. ;-)

 

[celtician]

Poodle head Koizumi apologized to China and then he went with his cronies directly to the Yasukuni shrine....on the same day!!! Is this a fool?? Is this a heartfelt apology???? Japan must think about getting someone to apologize.

 

[梁铠赞]

It's very insulting...there's no way China will forgive japan...If both of them war...I wonder who win...

 

[shiroma]

NHK reported on Apr. 24th 2005

Koizumi: Japan, China Agree to Improve Relations​

Japan's Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said he and Chinese President Hu Jintao have confirmed the importance of good relations, despite recent anti-Japan demonstrations in China.

Mr Koizumi and Mr Hu held a summit meeting on Saturday in the hotel in Jakarta where the Chinese President is staying. The meeting lasted about 40 minutes.

After the meeting, Mr Koizumi told reporters that he met Mr Hu with the aim of reaching common recognition that a good relationship between Japan and China is important for Asia and the world.

Mr Koizumi said the talks were very good. He also said he told Mr Hu that China should protect Japanese nationals in China and Japan-related facilities in China, including the Japanese Embassy, Consulate Generals and Japanese firms.

Mr Koizumi added that Mr Hu referred to the issues of Yasukuni Shrine and history but said he does not intend to take up the issue. Mr Koizumi said he therefore did not discuss the matter.

Yasukuni Shrine is dedicated to the war dead and former leaders convicted of war crimes.

↕ Compare the above report with the below supposedly about the same meeting:

China Initiates 5 Proposals on Ties with Japan

 

[lexico]

Who is 'he' who does not intende, the PM or the President ?

quote PM Koizumi, Junichiro: "Mr Hu referred to the issues of Yasukuni Shrine and history but said he does not intend to take up the issue. Mr Koizumi said he therefore did not discuss the matter.

??? Who is 'he' who does not intend to take up the issue ? I just wish that NHK would be more careful with its English translations in such a case.
1. Is President Hu being friendly by softening his objection ? :?
2. Or is PM Koizumi refusing to discuss his recent visits to Yasukuni shrine ? :?

 

[qinjingwen]

" If they apologize, someone will always say it isn't good enough. The people who are calling for the apologies will never be satisfied with any apology, they just enjoy whinning".
Many Japanese recognized their leaders have apologied to China several times for the atrocities .I don't want to discuss those speeches whether they are sincere or not by literally,just see Koizumi's annual visiting to war shrine and other provocative actions , the Japanese policians have no sincerity to be self evident.
"This is not a playground where you have to apologize because you pulled little Suzie's hair" I am apalled by Brooker' talk ,as far as I kown ,Japan just have approved the new history textbooks that waterwahing the atrocities committed by Japan during Second World War months ago. And where did your such innocent views come from ? I don't kown whether you purposely downplay the history or haven't read a historybook carefully before at all.Are the rape and massacre in China equivalent to child games ?I wonder it's who are brainwashed under so-called national culture.