Joyo Poster?

Putrefaction · 17 Jan 2009

Oh...oh yeah, blah...oh on some unrelated news, I've been doubling back on the ~360 I've learned, going over the On and kun (especially kun, as a lot of them are verbs). I forgot a LOT, especially how to write them.

Glenn · 17 Jan 2009

Toritoribe said:
It already announced that 文化審議会[ぶんかしんぎかい: Council for Cultural Affairs] will reform 常用漢字[じょうようかんじ] next year, a tentative plan now - add 191 characters, delete 5.
So, New 常用漢字 will be 2131...

More on this that I wanted to hit upon: I suppose this isn't the case, but I'll ask anyway -- are they going to also stop pretending like anything outside the list doesn't exist for newspapers and such (I know they sort of ignore that anyway, but 覚せい剤 seems to be the legal and only acceptable way to write 覚せい剤取締法)? う回 for 迂回, 急きょ for 急遽, えい船 for 曳船, 危ぐ for 危惧, おう吐 for 嘔吐, etc. just bother me. So does 覚せい剤 for 覚醒剤, by the way (and 改ざん for 改竄 and ねつ造 for 捏造... OK, I think that's all of them). I may be way outside of common opinion on this, though.

The other thing was just something I'm wondering about the ones that are being taken off. I'm guessing 匁 is one of them, and although it seems like I had more in mind when I started typing this, I can't remember any of them and can't think of any more (well, 逓 and 迭 come to mind).

Toritoribe · 17 Jan 2009

Glenn said:
More on this that I wanted to hit upon: I suppose this isn't the case, but I'll ask anyway -- are they going to also stop pretending like anything outside the list doesn't exist for newspapers and such (I know they sort of ignore that anyway, but 覚せい剤 seems to be the legal and only acceptable way to write 覚せい剤取締法)? う回 for 迂回, 急きょ for 急遽, えい船 for 曳船, 危ぐ for 危惧, おう吐 for 嘔吐, etc. just bother me. So does 覚せい剤 for 覚醒剤, by the way (and 改ざん for 改竄 and ねつ造 for 捏造... OK, I think that's all of them). I may be way outside of common opinion on this, though.

It's silly but that "ugliness" on writings will remain...

the list of 191 kanji

So you will be able to see at least 危惧 and 覚醒剤 on a newspaper.

Glenn said:
The other thing was just something I'm wondering about the ones that are being taken off. I'm guessing 匁 is one of them, and although it seems like I had more in mind when I started typing this, I can't remember any of them and can't think of any more (well, 逓 and 迭 come to mind). I may be way outside of common opinion on this, though.

Bingo! 匁 is in it. The others are 銑錘勺脹.

Putrefaction · 17 Jan 2009

Oh wait I know one of them that is being added...that can't be though...the last row, fifth one to the right, ro: isn't that vertebrae or spine or something? I remember it from heisig.2nd to last row, 4th one over, isn't that like law or something?

Glenn · 18 Jan 2009

Toritoribe said:
It's silly but that "ugliness" on writings will remain...

the list of 191 kanji

I'm pretty shocked to see that a LOT of these aren't currently on the 常用漢字表. I see them often, and learned them under the pretense that they were, actually. I knew 俺 and 誰 weren't, and I always thought that was ridiculous.

Toritoribe said:
So you will be able to see at least 危惧 and 覚醒剤 on a newspaper.

...and 破綻 and 剥奪 and 鬱憤 and 鬱病 and 失踪 and 比喩 and 旺盛 and 謙遜 and 骸骨... 捻挫、嫉妬、取り沙汰、曖昧、咽喉、挨拶、親戚、脊椎動物、椎茸 (yummy)、美貌、全貌・・・ Oh yeah, this opens up a lot of words. No 抽籤 though.

Heh, I'm a nerd.

Toritoribe said:
Bingo! 匁 is in it. The others are 銑錘勺脹.

匁 was always my example for a character that should not be on the list. I can't recall having ever seen 銑 outside of studying it, so that one makes sense. The other two I'm ambiguous about.

Glenn · 18 Jan 2009

xtremevillan said:
Oh wait I know one of them that is being added...that can't be though...the last row, fifth one to the right, ro: isn't that vertebrae or spine or something? I remember it from heisig.2nd to last row, 4th one over, isn't that like law or something?

ﾋ
呂 does have the keyword "spine" in Heisig. 冶 ("metallurgy"), however, isn't in the first book (it's in the third one), and the keyword was "reign," not "law." The character you're thinking of is 治. The difference is "ice" (冶) vs. "water" (治). However, if you're studying simplified Chinese, they're treated as the same character (冶 is used for 治), I believe, which is another reason simplified Chinese sucks.

By the way, 治 is read チ, ジ, なお・る, なお・す, おさ・まる, おさ・める, and 冶 is read ヤ.

Putrefaction · 18 Jan 2009

Thank you for the clarification!

Toritoribe · 18 Jan 2009

Glenn said:
I'm pretty shocked to see that a LOT of these aren't currently on the 常用漢字表. I see them often, and learned them under the pretense that they were, actually. I knew 俺 and 誰 weren't, and I always thought that was ridiculous.

Yeah, probably most of all native speakers will have same impression. 岡 is not 常用漢字?! So where's 岡山県?! Actually, they say that's one of the reasons 茨城, 愛媛, 熊本, 埼玉, 栃木, 奈良, 大阪, 岐阜 are in the list.

Glenn said:
Heh, I'm a nerd.

might be...

Glenn · 18 Jan 2009

Toritoribe said:
Yeah, probably most of all native speakers will have same impression. 岡 is not 常用漢字?! So where's 岡山県?! Actually, they say that's one of the reasons 茨城, 愛媛, 熊本, 埼玉, 栃木, 奈良, 大阪, 岐阜 are in the list.

That almost makes too much sense! haha I was noticing that, too. They always seem to be written with their kanji anyway, though. I suppose さいたま市 is going to stay like that though.

Toritoribe said:
might be...

That's why the chicks dig me. lmao

One more thing I thought of: will 理窟 become official again? Probably not, eh? I've actually kind of gotten used to writing it that way. :/

Amigo · 18 Jan 2009

I've been having a look to the list and I was take aback. I've seen that I know 73 kanjis from those 191 new kanji. In fact there are a lot that (foreign) students would know very well.
Besides those that Glenn posted (俺 and 誰) there are for example:
諦める
羨ましい
挨拶！！
秘密！！
箸 (cultural importance)
肘
膝
脇
虹 (beautiful meaning)
謎
嵐
宛 (for letters)
熊
鶴
鹿。。。
I've known 嵐 for 4 years! when I were starting intermediate grammar.

btw, there are some Kanji that I would add:
How about...?
惚れる
鼠
這う
癌「これはごめんね」。。。

Glenn · 18 Jan 2009

Yeah, 嵐, 鶴, 鹿, 虎, 熊, and 羨 all surprised me too. I agree with the 4 you mentioned, especially since 惚れる is pretty much along the same lines as 憧れる (and is used in 己惚れる). We also get 刹那 and 旦那.

You have the wrong ミツ, though. It's not 秘密のミツ, it's 蜂蜜のミツ. There's a 虫 in the place of the 山.

Amigo · 18 Jan 2009

Glenn said:
You have the wrong ミツ, though. It's not 秘密のミツ, it's 蜂蜜のミツ. There's a 虫 in the place of the 山.

Ops, it's true. They are so similar. I wish I had your skill to make them out.

Toritoribe · 19 Jan 2009

Glenn said:
One more thing I thought of: will 理窟 become official again? Probably not, eh?

Yeah, probably not. Unfortunately, 理屈 is already widespread. 窟 might be for e.g. 岩窟.

文化庁[Agency for Cultural Affairs] will solicit public opinions regarding this tentative plan on the HP in March. So both of you, or anyone else, can post your opinions.;-)

Glenn · 20 Jan 2009

Toritoribe said:
Yeah, probably not. Unfortunately, 理屈 is already widespread. 窟 might be for e.g. 岩窟.

洞窟 is safe, though.

Toritoribe said:
文化庁[Agency for Cultural Affairs] will solicit public opinions regarding this tentative plan on the HP in March. So both of you, or anyone else, can post your opinions.;-)

Now that's pretty cool. I just found the page where they announced it, too. I'm still rummaging around looking for the 世論調査情報.

Joyo Poster?

Putrefaction

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

Glenn

一切皆苦

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Putrefaction

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

Glenn

一切皆苦

Glenn

一切皆苦

Putrefaction

不幸中の幸い. . . がない.

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

Amigo

先輩

Glenn

一切皆苦

Amigo

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Glenn

一切皆苦

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