JLPT Review

Toritoribe · 25 Jan 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
中国は（）わかりませんから、話せません。
（１）よく
（２）ぜんぜん

They both seem to be a good candidates, and I can't rule the other one out! What do you think?

I, too, think it's a typo of 中国語. 中国は can make sense in a context that the speaker is talking about something regarding China, though.
e.g.
アメリカの経済状態については、先月まで滞在していたので説明できます。
中国は（＝中国の経済状態については）よく/ぜんぜんわかりませんから、話せません。

Both よく and ぜんぜん are valid, anyway.

chldudghks0517 said:
英語じゃ（）、日本語ができます。
（１）ないと
（２）なければ
（３）ないで
（４）なくて

Choices 2 seem to be a good fit for the sentence (i.e. I can speak Japanese, if not English). However, the book claims that the correct answer is (4). Well, I kind of agree with this, but can (2) be an appropriate answer as well?

#2 indeed might be valid in a specific context, but it would be very rare. Here's a context appropriate for #2 I can think of now.
当社の中国支店では、ほとんどの社員が中国語以外の言葉も話せます。スペイン語を話せる社員が一番多いですが、英語を話せる社員もかなりいますし、英語じゃなければ、日本語ができます。(Hmm, still awkward...)
#1 seems to be rarer than #2.

chldudghks0517 · 26 Jan 2016

Toritoribe said:
I, too, think it's a typo of 中国語. 中国は can make sense in a context that the speaker is talking about something regarding China, though.

I'm sorry. 「中国」is my typo. It should have been 「中国語」.

Toritoribe said:
当社の中国支店では、ほとんどの社員が中国語以外の言葉も話せます。スペイン語を話せる社員が一番多いですが、英語を話せる社員もかなりいますし、英語じゃなければ、日本語ができます。(Hmm, still awkward...)

Yes, it does sound awkward in this sentence. Well, 「なくて」seems to be the more natural answer.

Toritoribe said:
アメリカの経済状態については、先月まで滞在していたので説明できます。
中国は（＝中国の経済状態については）よく/ぜんぜんわかりませんから、話せません。

Both よく and ぜんぜん are valid, anyway.

Thank you for the example sentence. Things seem clearer to me now.

Toritoribe · 26 Jan 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
Well, 「なくて」seems to be the more natural answer.

なくて doesn't work well, either. どちらも話せない人は is the best.

chldudghks0517 · 31 Jan 2016

今日は！

聞きたいことがあります。「検索窓」の読み方は何でしょうか。どこでも探せなくて。

（－－）（＿＿）

Mike Cash · 31 Jan 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
今日は！

聞きたいことがあります。「検索窓」の読み方は何でしょうか。どこでも探せなくて。

（－－）（＿＿）

I went to Google and typed as far as けんさくま before it showed 検索窓 as the top choice...so it would seem to be けんさくまど

chldudghks0517 · 2 Feb 2016

Mike Cash said:
I went to Google and typed as far as けんさくま before it showed 検索窓 as the top choice...so it would seem to be けんさくまど

それじゃ、「けんさくまど」になりますね。ありがとうございます、マイクさん。

新しい質問です！

「本屋」と「本屋さん」の間違いは何でしょうか。どっちも「本の店」という意味だと教えられましたが、これ、本当ですか。「本屋」は、まあ、いいですけど、本当に「本屋さん」も「本の店」のことを言う場合があるんでしょうか。人じゃないんですかね。

そして。。。

（）に何を入れますか。１・２・３・４から一番いいものを一つ選んでください。

上の文章で「（）」はどう読みましょうか。「なになに」って読みますか。

<(_ _)>

Toritoribe · 2 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
「本屋」と「本屋さん」の間違いは何でしょうか。どっちも「本の店」という意味だと教えられましたが、これ、本当ですか。「本屋」は、まあ、いいですけど、本当に「本屋さん」も「本の店」のことを言う場合があるんでしょうか。人じゃないんですかね。

「本屋」と「本屋さん」の違い
(Not "mistake/error", but "difference")

Both are possible, but 本屋さん is rarely used to refer to a bookshop worker/owner comparing to 八百屋さん, 魚屋さん or 酒屋さん.

chldudghks0517 said:
（）に何を入れますか。１・２・３・４から一番いいものを一つ選んでください。

上の文章で「（）」はどう読みましょうか。「なになに」って読みますか。

どう読みますか/どう読むんですか
～しましょうか is usually used when you offer to help the addressee, e.g., 荷物持ちましょうか.

かっこ（＝括弧）

chldudghks0517 · 2 Feb 2016

Toritoribe said:
「本屋」と「本屋さん」の違い
(Not "mistake/error", but "difference")

Thank you for the correction. I will keep this in mind. 「違い」と「間違い」の違いをしっかり覚えておきます。

Toritoribe said:
Both are possible, but 本屋さん is rarely used to refer to a bookshop worker/owner comparing to 八百屋さん, 魚屋さん or 酒屋さん.

Okay, so 「本屋さん」would refer to a bookstore most of the time. Then, would it be okay to say 「本屋さんに寄って本を５冊も買いました。」?

Toritoribe said:
どう読みますか/どう読むんですか
～しましょうか is usually used when you offer to help the addressee, e.g., 荷物持ちましょうか.

Thank you again for the correction. I'll be more careful next time.

Toritoribe said:
かっこ（＝括弧）

◎´^ω^`◎Thanks♪

I have another set of questions.

What exactly is the difference between 「くる」and「きたる」? Don't both of them mean "to come?" I looked up a dictionary and the following is what I got.

きた・る【来る】
１やって来る。くる。「米大統領―・る」「冬―・りなば春遠からじ」

I know what 「くる」means, so how is 「きたる」used differently? What are the nuances of this expression?

SomeCallMeChris · 3 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
What exactly is the difference between 「くる」and「きたる」? Don't both of them mean "to come?" I looked up a dictionary and the following is what I got.

きた・る【来る】
１やって来る。くる。「米大統領―・る」「冬―・りなば春遠からじ」

I know what 「くる」means, so how is 「きたる」used differently? What are the nuances of this expression?

I've only ever seen きたる used to be mean 'the upcoming', similar to the usage in the entry,
来るの英語・英訳 - goo辞書英和和英

(and only as dialogue by characters that use a lot of formal or archaic language.)

It's not a very common word at all, at least in the light novels I've been reading.

I don't think this usage can apply to your dictionary entry's first example though. I'm not sure what the implications of 米大統領きたる would be and I can't find a clearer example of a similar sentence in the usual sentence sites (weblio, alc).

If you're just wondering how to read 来る and when, then that's easy: just read it くる. In contemporary Japanese, if it's きたる it will have furigana or it will be written as 来たる. Actually, きたるべき will be written 来るべき, so perhaps be careful of that particular expression; I've certainly seen that expression a few times.

If you start reading older forms of Japanese it will be just one more challenge among many to distinguish the two 来る.

chldudghks0517 · 3 Feb 2016

SomeCallMeChris said:
I've only ever seen きたる used to be mean 'the upcoming', similar to the usage in the entry,
来るの英語・英訳 - goo辞書英和和英

Oh, I used 国語辞書, not 英語辞書 (and yes, you get different results.)

SomeCallMeChris said:
If you're just wondering how to read 来る and when, then that's easy: just read it くる. In contemporary Japanese, if it's きたる it will have furigana or it will be written as 来たる. Actually, きたるべき will be written 来るべき, so perhaps be careful of that particular expression; I've certainly seen that expression a few times.

Aha. That's sums it up. Thank you for the information!

chldudghks0517 · 3 Feb 2016

__★__に何を入れますか。１・２・３・４から一番いいものを一つ選んでください。

会場 _____ _____ __★__ _____ はできません。
（１）利用
（２）の
（３）カード
（４）で

The correct arrangement of words is (4)-(2)-(3)-(1). Thus, the correct answer is (3). I understand why this is the case, but I have a hard time understanding the next question.

出かけたの _____ _____ _____ __★__ があります。
（１）に
（２）理由
（３）は
（４）もう一つ

My arrangement was (2)-(1)-(3)-(4). What is wrong with this arrangement of words?

[(2)-(1)-(3)-(4)] 出かけたの理由にはもう一つがあります。

The book argues that the following is the correct arrangement of words.

[(1)-(3)-(2)-(3)] 出かけたのにはもう一つ理由があります。

Well, I agree with the book, but why can't the former sentence be correct?

（）に何を入れますか。１・２・３・４から一番いいものを一つ選んでください。

部屋にテーブルが（）ままになっています。
（１）おかれる
（２）おく
（３）おかれた
（４）おいた

My answer is (4), but the books says the correct answer is (3). Why is that so? I see that (3) is intransitive and (4) is transitive, but then ...

(I've double-checked my post for typos.)

mdchachi · 3 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
[(2)-(1)-(3)-(4)] 出かけたの理由にはもう一つがあります。
why can't the former sentence be correct?

When you modify a noun with a verb, you don't use の. It's unnecessary/incorrect.
It's like saying 買ったの本 vs 買った本.

chldudghks0517 said:
部屋にテーブルが（）ままになっています。
（１）おかれる
（２）おく
（３）おかれた
（４）おいた

My answer is (4), but the books says the correct answer is (3). Why is that so? I see that (3) is intransitive and (4) is transitive, but then ...

Both sound possible to me though I would agree that (3) sounds better.
I can't explain...

SomeCallMeChris · 3 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
出かけたの _____ _____ _____ __★__ があります。
（１）に
（２）理由
（３）は
（４）もう一つ

My arrangement was (2)-(1)-(3)-(4). What is wrong with this arrangement of words?

[(2)-(1)-(3)-(4)] 出かけたの理由にはもう一つがあります。

You're trying to put 出かけた and 理由 together here as if の were a conjunction like 花の花びら, but 出かけた is not a noun and の here is a nominalizer.

（）に何を入れますか。１・２・３・４から一番いいものを一つ選んでください。

部屋にテーブルが（）ままになっています。
（１）おかれる
（２）おく
（３）おかれた
（４）おいた

My answer is (4), but the books says the correct answer is (3). Why is that so? I see that (3) is intransitive and (4) is transitive, but then ...

So if the correct answer were the transitive verb, it would have to be テーブルをおいたまま ... the remainder of the sentence would also become incorrect once you've changed this phrase.

(edit: Ninja'd! I guess I post too slow, heh.)

Edit: Mdchachi may be right. I was thinking that テーブルが置かれた modifies まま, but could テーブル be the subject of なる rather than おく? I'm not sure. Maybe it has to be in any interpretation. If it is then the particle for テーブル doesn't have to match the tense for おく.

mdchachi · 3 Feb 2016

SomeCallMeChris said:
So if the correct answer were the transitive verb, it would have to be テーブルをおいたまま ... the remainder of the sentence would also become incorrect once you've changed this phrase.

Oh yes, that's the point. If you said テーブルが置いたまま then the table would be doing the putting of something. I was confusing this with テーブルがあったまま which I think is possible.
テーブルが置かれた → The table was placed.
テーブルを置いた → <N> placed the table.
テーブルが置いた → X

Toritoribe · 5 Feb 2016

SomeCallMeChris said:
Mdchachi may be right. I was thinking that テーブルが置かれた modifies まま, but could テーブル be the subject of なる rather than おく? I'm not sure. Maybe it has to be in any interpretation. If it is then the particle for テーブル doesn't have to match the tense for おく.

Yes, テーブルが置いたままになっています。 also can be valid. It's interpreted as テーブルが（誰かが置いたままの状態に）なっています. 部屋にテーブルが置かれたままになっています expresses the state of the room, whereas 置いたまま puts the focus more on the state of the table, just in my impression.
another example of "object が transitive verb ままになっている"
家に帰ると、テレビがつけたままになっていた。
窓が開けたままになっている。

Both おかれる and おく are action, so #1 and 2 can't be used in this structure. (For instance 置かれているままになっている is valid since it's a state.)

chldudghks0517 · 6 Feb 2016

Toritoribe said:
Yes, テーブルが置いたままになっています。 also can be valid. It's interpreted as テーブルが（誰かが置いたままの状態に）なっています. 部屋にテーブルが置かれたままになっています expresses the state of the room, whereas 置いたまま puts the focus more on the state of the table, just in my impression.
another example of "object が transitive verb ままになっている"
家に帰ると、テレビがつけたままになっていた。
窓が開けたままになっている。

(ノ_．)ノ

Thank you mdchachi, SomeCallMeChris, and Toritoribe for the great explanations!

chldudghks0517 · 8 Feb 2016

（）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう。
（１）けれども
（２）すると
（３）たいぶ
（４）そんあ

My answer is (2). According to this, 「すると」has two meanings. Isn't the second definition of 「すると」 appropriate for sentence above, as in 「お前の大切な友達の自殺事件は永遠に謎のままに残るかもしれない。すると（お前だけは）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう(だろう）。(to prove that suicide wasn't the case」or something like that. I apologize for the extreme example; just trying to make my point.

However, the book says the best answer is (1). Well, I agree, but why not (2)? What is your answer?

よろしくお願いします。（－－）（＿＿）

chldudghks0517 · 8 Feb 2016

Second question.

そこはうまく回っている会社です。

What exactly is the meaning of 「回る」in the sentence above? Does the sentence simply mean that the company is operating properly (according to my book)? Or does it mean that the company raises profit well, as in「10 金銭の運用で利益が生じる。(according to this.)」 I'm just confused.

(・_・ヾ

Mike Cash · 8 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
（）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう。
（１）けれども
（２）すると
（３）たいぶ
（４）そんあ

My answer is (2). According to this, 「すると」has two meanings. Isn't the second definition of 「すると」 appropriate for sentence above, as in 「お前の大切な友達の自殺事件は永遠に謎のままに残るかもしれない。すると（お前だけは）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう(だろう）。(to prove that suicide wasn't the case」or something like that. I apologize for the extreme example; just trying to make my point.

However, the book says the best answer is (1). Well, I agree, but why not (2)? What is your answer?

よろしくお願いします。（－－）（＿＿）

Are we back on the crappy book again? Both 1 and 2 are grammatically possible but they both sound like we walked in on the middle of a conversation. Did you make a typo on 4?

chldudghks0517 · 8 Feb 2016

Mike Cash said:
Are we back on the crappy book again?

My heartfelt apologies. Yes, we are back on that book. But rejoice, for I'm through with this book. I'm going to start studying with a new JLPT N3 book written by 北嶋千鶴子. Hope this one works well for me.

Mike Cash said:
Both 1 and 2 are grammatically possible but they both sound like we walked in on the middle of a conversation. Did you make a typo on 4?

Thank you for the answer. And yes, I made a typo on 4. It should be「そんな」. My bad.

Toritoribe · 9 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
（）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう。
（１）けれども
（２）すると
（３）たいぶ
（４）そんあ

My answer is (2). According to this, 「すると」has two meanings. Isn't the second definition of 「すると」 appropriate for sentence above, as in 「お前の大切な友達の自殺事件は永遠に謎のままに残るかもしれない。すると（お前だけは）その事件を忘れてはならないでしょう(だろう）。(to prove that suicide wasn't the case」or something like that. I apologize for the extreme example; just trying to make my point.

However, the book says the best answer is (1). Well, I agree, but why not (2)? What is your answer?

よろしくお願いします。（－－）（＿＿）

1, 2 and 4 are valid in appropriate contexts.

chldudghks0517 said:
Second question.

そこはうまく回っている会社です。

What exactly is the meaning of 「回る」in the sentence above? Does the sentence simply mean that the company is operating properly (according to my book)? Or does it mean that the company raises profit well, as in「10 金銭の運用で利益が生じる。(according to this.)」 I'm just confused.

(・_・ヾ

Both are possible.

chldudghks0517 · 9 Feb 2016

I'm trying to split hairs again here. また重箱の隅をつつくようなことをしてすみません。

【１】「試みる」は、実際にあたってできるかどうかやってみる意だが、「試す」は、うまくいくか、よいか悪いか、本当かどうかの確認をする意が強い。

The above sentence is what I got after trying to understand the difference between「試みる」and「試す」. Am I right in understanding that「試みる」has more to do with trying something to see the "possibility or likelihood of that thing being actually possible" and that「試す」has this sense of simply trying something "to confirm whether something is the case?"

I would really appreciate additional comments. Thank you as always.

SomeCallMeChris · 10 Feb 2016

chldudghks0517 said:
I'm trying to split hairs again here. また重箱の隅をつつくようなことをしてすみません。

【１】「試みる」は、実際にあたってできるかどうかやってみる意だが、「試す」は、うまくいくか、よいか悪いか、本当かどうかの確認をする意が強い。

The above sentence is what I got after trying to understand the difference between「試みる」and「試す」. Am I right in understanding that「試みる」has more to do with trying something to see the "possibility or likelihood of that thing being actually possible" and that「試す」has this sense of simply trying something "to confirm whether something is the case?"

I would really appreciate additional comments. Thank you as always.

Pretty close, but notice the やってみる part of the definition. It's not quite to see 'if that thing is possible', but rather the subject of the sentence trying and seeing if they can do that thing. I'd say the definition reads "to try and do something that in actuality may or may not be possible". (Or perhaps 'that in actuality one may or may not be capable of' is closer.)

Also, in the past tense こころみた usually means they didn't succeed, which is important to keep in mind because the result is not always explicitly stated.

chldudghks0517 · 14 Feb 2016

JREFの皆さん、こんにちは！

「移る」と「移す」の違いがどうしても分かりません。教えていただけれはすごくありがたいと思います！

（－－）（＿＿）

(I think the part in red sounds awkward. Can someone correct it for me? I'm trying to say I would "really appreciate it" if someone can teach me what the difference is.)

Toritoribe · 14 Feb 2016

すごくありがたいと思います is understandable, but すごくありがたいです/うれしいです is better.

intransitive vs. transitive
subject が移る。
subject が object を移す。

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