Is this freedom of speech ?

Hezam

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U.S : Church plans Quran-burning event



(CNN) -- In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week.

Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.

Muslims and many other Christians -- including some evangelicals -- are fighting the initiative.

The church launched a YouTube channel to disseminate its messages.

"I mean ask yourself, have you ever really seen a really happy Muslim? As they're on the way to Mecca? As they gather together in the mosque on the floor? Does it look like a real religion of joy?" Jones asks in one of his YouTube posts.

"No, to me it looks like a religion of the devil."

The Islamic advocacy group Council on American-Islamic Relations called on Muslims and others to host "Share the Quran" dinners to educate the public during the monthlong fast of Ramadan beginning in August. In a news release, the group announced a campaign to give out 100,000 copies of the Quran to local, state and national leaders.

"American Muslims and other people of conscience should support positive educational efforts to prevent the spread of Islamophobia," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper in the release.

The National Association of Evangelicals, the nation's largest umbrella evangelical group, issued a statement urging the church to cancel the event, warning it could cause worldwide tension between the two religions.

"The NAE calls on its members to cultivate relationships of trust and respect with our neighbors of other faiths. God created human beings in his image, and therefore all should be treated with dignity and respect," it said in the statement.

Dove's Facebook page, set up for the September event, has more than 1,600 fans.

"Eternal fire is the only destination the Quran can lead people to, so we want to put the Quran in it's [sic] place -- the fire!" the page says.

But another Facebook group with more than 3,100 fans says it stands "against the disrespect and intolerance that these people have for the Muslim people" and encourages people to report Dove's page to Facebook.

Targeting another group it calls "godless," the Dove center is also hosting a protest against Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe, who is openly gay, on Monday at Gainesville's City Hall. The group previously fought -- unsuccessfully -- to derail Lowe's election campaign.

"We protest sexual perversion because the Bible protests it. ... What is acceptable to today's leadership becomes acceptable to tomorrow's society," the church says in its blog entry about the event.

Lowe and other government figures and media outlets received e-mails from the church about the event, The Gainesville Sun reported. Lowe isn't concerned with Monday's event.

"I've got other things to do," he said, The Sun reports.

On the outreach center's front lawn, alongside a sign reading "Aug. 2 Protest, No Homo Mayor, City Hall," stands not just one, but three signs bearing the slogan "Islam is of the Devil."

One of the signs -- one reading "Islam" on one side, "Devil" on the other -- was vandalized. On its blog last week, the church said the sign will be replaced.

"This is private property and vandalism is a crime here in America," the blog says. "In Islam, many actions that we consider to be crimes are encouraged, condoned or sheltered under Islamic teaching and practice, though. Another reason to burn a Quran."

There is no such acts in All Muslim countries,Not even one Muslim has burned the Bible neither Tawrah. !!
International day for burning Quran !! Now that preacher has a page on facebook and there are many Christians/Muslims threating each others !!!!!!! i can't bear that....

The Question here is,Is that considered a freedom of speech ?
 
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Seems pretty childish to me. Burning books? Really? I think it is more a publicity stunt than anything else. I guess it could also be seen as a form of censorship.

The Question here is,Is that considered a freedom of speech ?

I suppose it could be considered freedom of expression. I'm curious, Hezam, do you support freedom of speech as long as it is not used to insult your religion?
 
Retarded christians. If you notice the article mentions that many christians, as well as others, are against this. Fundies come in all shapes and sizes.
I agree with Half-n-half on this. It is a publicity stunt, not freedom of speech. If anything I would even say that it is an incitment to hatred. As far a I am concerned anyone who burns a book is an idiot who is trying to remove the ideals of freedom of speech. As Half-n-half says, this is a form of censorship, and to invoke Godwins law here, it is something the Nazis did.
 
Seems pretty childish to me. Burning books? Really? I think it is more a publicity stunt than anything else. I guess it could also be seen as a form of censorship.
censorship ? !!
A preacher calls for burning a Holy book around the planet is a censorship ?
This call is going to cause chaos in the eastern half of the world...

I suppose it could be considered freedom of expression. I'm curious, Hezam, do you support freedom of speech as long as it is not used to insult your religion?
expression :eek:
I support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't include insult .
 
Mycernius said:
If you notice the article mentions that many christians, as well as others, are against this.
Yes,they did...and they must do so,this is the best way to avoid such idiocy.
Mycernius said:
incitment to hatred
This is at least what we should call it.
 
censorship ? !!
A preacher calls for burning a Holy book around the planet is a censorship ?
Yes, because by inciting people to burn it, it is preventing people from reading it. No-body who will burn the book would have any pint sat down and read it. They are believing what the preacher is saying that is the work of the devil. It is easier for them to let someone tell them what to think rather than do it themselves. It is quite a sneaky way to censor a book. A removal by the state would amke people try and get illegal copies. this way people are willing to do the work of the censors by destroying it themselves.

This call is going to cause chaos in the eastern half of the world...
expression :eek:
And do you think they care? They see themselves as the rightous and you as the uncivilised, immoral heathens. Plus they live in a country with the worlds most advanced military. They think they have God and might on their side

I support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't include insult .
Hate to be a party pooper, but you have done enough insulting of Israel in the past. That is your right of freedom of speech, but people in glass houses shouldn't cast the first stone.
 
Mycernius said:
Hate to be a party pooper, but you have done enough insulting of Israel in the past. That is your right of freedom of speech, but people in glass houses shouldn't cast the first stone.
You seem like Israel's Lawyer !!
I was denouncing the crimes,but you was supporting them to kill to murder to occupy..etc.
And this is not what we were discussing...
 
You seem like Israel's Lawyer !!
I was denouncing the crimes,but you was supporting them to kill to murder to occupy..etc.
And this is not what we were discussing...
You have missed the point, like you do everytime you see the word Israel. I am not supporting the country, all I am saying that you are comdeming the preacher for insulting Islam, but with the other hand in other threads you insult Israel, yet you say you support freedom of speech as long as it isn't insulting. Do you not see the contradiction in your ideals?
 
I suppose it's freedom of speech, or freedom of expression, which says there should be limits on freedom of speech, meaning criticisms are alright, but hate messages are not, and this is simply a hate message.

Fundies come in all shapes and sizes.... just thought I should say that includes some decent shapes and sizes, meaning while I just don't agree with them about a lot of stuff, my mother is a fundie, but one of the most easy to connect with people I have ever known. People take an instant liking to her, I should add that while she has reservations about stuff like gay marriage, it's more along the lines of worry that gays will get upset and take a church to court if gay marriage is legalized, but a church refuses to let them marry at their church (I wouldn't put it past some gays to step on religious freedoms).
 
They are expressing their position as regards the matter. So long as there is no threat of criminality, there is no need to be overly concerned. We, humanity, can just add this to the long list of retarded **** we do, like putting lights on trees or fasting for religious reasons. Just a stupid ritual.
 
You have missed the point, like you do everytime you see the word Israel. I am not supporting the country, all I am saying that you are comdeming the preacher for insulting Islam, but with the other hand in other threads you insult Israel, yet you say you support freedom of speech as long as it isn't insulting. Do you not see the contradiction in your ideals?
1- I didn't insult Judaism or Christianity.
2- I was denouncing the system not the people.
3- You insulted the Arab systems several times ago and i agreed with you.

Faith is not like policy,it's very sensitive.
Is there anyone still has a mind to understand what i'm trying to say ?
 
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Faith is not like policy,it's very sensitive.

You can insult my beliefs or my lack of beliefs all you want, you will not get my blood burning so much that I will enter a state of rage. I do not believe in X pantheon or deity, so I do not believe in an obligation on me not to insult them/it. Your best shot here is normativity, but as I said just now, I reject the validity of the normative claim concerned. People find all sorts of matters sensitive. Anything a person holds in high regard makes for a sensitive issue in a discussion. Israel's policy is a sensitive matter to me, so stop insulting Israel because I'm getting really offended. Does that sound retarded to you? I do find it retarded. You can use any substitute you want: cricket, golf, fox hunting, cooking, archery, reading, music, gardening, communism, aliens, anything. If we accommodated to all people who raise complaints to the extent that they have been offended, we'd paralyse ourselves in our exchange of information altogether. We'd become an oblivious species in a stagnant state, clinging to taboos and following baseless moral provisions. I don't want to go back to the mediaeval era.

If you want to convince me that I ought not insult faith, you will have to establish exactly that. You will have to bring all the necessary evidence and proof that supports the normative claim that people ought not insult faith. Oh and may I add, I would like the the evidence and proof to be of a scientific nature.

It is always at this point that people who argue for the existence of objective morality start talking about trees and flowers, beauty, behaviour, mind, nature and so on and so forth and scripture and deities and ghosts, goblins and ghouls and somehow, voila, through redefining words, twisting definitions and changing positions, objective morality is established through some bizarre non-scientific means.

Who wills me not to insult faith? The universe? Deities? Captain Planet? Lestat the Vampire? And why should I comply?
 
There is no such acts in All Muslim countries,Not even one Muslim has burned the Bible neither Tawrah. !!

wronggif-1.webp


I take it you never saw any reports on what happened to the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem after the Palestinian terror... er, "freedom fighters"... occupied it for several weeks in 2002. They used Bibles as TOILET PAPER. They also left behind booby-trapped bombs when they left.

From "'Greedy Monsters' Ruled Church," Washington Times, May 15, 2002:

Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. "Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold," said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.

Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?

The Question here is,Is that considered a freedom of speech ?

Something you seem to completely fail to comprehend is YES, that's why it's called FREEDOM of speech.

Sheesh.


Christians in the Palestinian Authority
 
I support freedom of speech as long as it doesn't include insult .

I'm sorry for adding to the criticism already here against you, but as Derfel has already pointed out what might insult one person may not insult another. For example, would you be offended or insulted if I called you a poopy head? Probably not, but a little kid might or someone with thin skin. So as long as someone cries foul to something and deems it "insulting" we should not allow it? Can you see the slippery slope you get into?

I agree the actions they are taking are in bad taste and I agree it's a bit extreme. I also understand why you find this especially offensive because it attacks/insults your innermost beliefs. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing even if on occasion it can be abused. But even then who is to say they are in the wrong? Perhaps they really are right and by burning the books they are indeed saving souls. Why should we impose our own subjective ideals and beliefs that are just as likely to be wrong in order to stop them? You of course are free to feel outraged and speak out against them all you want in return. Again as Derfel already said, if there is no threat of criminality the ugly truth is they have a right to do it.
 
According to the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, yes it is (freedom of speech).
 
wronggif-1.webp

I take it you never saw any reports on what happened to the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem after the Palestinian terror... er, "freedom fighters"... occupied it for several weeks in 2002. They used Bibles as TOILET PAPER. They also left behind booby-trapped bombs when they left.
From "'Greedy Monsters' Ruled Church," Washington Times, May 15, 2002:
Bethlehem: Where is the Outrage?
Something you seem to completely fail to comprehend is YES, that's why it's called FREEDOM of speech.
Sheesh.
Christians in the Palestinian Authority
If you are going to post links please no Israelian websites since they don't tell the truth,I need pictures and i need a report from Bethlehem Church or Palestinian links (Muslim or Christian websites Not jewish).
And for using the Bible as toilet paper,let me tell you that this acts are NEVER allowed in Islam especially for a Holy book like Bible and Tarah.
It seems like you don't know Islam rules !! great...

Please do some search.

Ok ok freedom of speech,you know why ? because he is not Muslim...
If a muslim call for burning the American Consulate or the Bible he will be considered a terrorist,Right ?
don't lie to your self guys.
 
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Yes, it's free speech.

Why aren't you concerned about people in the Middle East burning American flags? Our flag is sacred to many patriotic Americans. In fact, our Congress has tried to ban burning our flag, but the courts struck down that law as violating our First Amendment (free speech).
 
Yes, it's free speech.

Why aren't you concerned about people in the Middle East burning American flags? Our flag is sacred to many patriotic Americans. In fact, our Congress has tried to ban burning our flag, but the courts struck down that law as violating our First Amendment (free speech).
Flag !! come on !!
I don't burn flags,wheels..etc. It's idiocy.
But burning flags is not like burning Holy books/Temples...
You may burn all the Arabic/Islamic flags expecting the Saudi Flag because a Allah's name is written on it.
I can't believe you don't see the difference between the two :?
 
You should talk to some ex-servicemen and their families; they consider our flag a sacred object.

Me, I don't think a thing can be sacred, whether Bible, Koran, or flag. Families are sacred, true love is sacred, but not physical objects.
 
If you are going to post links please no Israelian websites since they don't tell the truth,I need pictures and i need a report from Bethlehem Church or Palestinian links (Muslim or Christian websites Not jewish).
And for using the Bible as toilet paper,let me tell you that this acts are NEVER allowed in Islam especially for a Holy book like Bible and Tarah.
It seems like you don't know Islam rules !! great...
Please do some search.

The article I quoted was the Washington Post, dude.


Ok ok freedom of speech,you know why ? because he is not Muslim...
If a muslim call for burning the American Consulate or the Bible he will be considered a terrorist,Right ?
don't lie to your self guys.

You really don't get it, do you?

Have you not seen those photos of "Behead those who insult Islam" protestors? They are actually advocating MURDER and VIOLENCE because someone SAID something they didn't like. The fact that they can do that, too, is freedom of speech.

That's what freedom of speech is, guy.

Someone once said, "you don't have a right not to be insulted."

I suggest you grow the frak up.
 
Hezam, the Dove World Outreach Center is no better than the Westboro Baptist Church. In fact, I think they support one another. The Westboro Church is quite literally full of batshit insane morons, so I think the same can be applied to the former as well.

To be honest with you, I don't like the idea of burning any book.
 
Flag !! come on !!
I don't burn flags,wheels..etc. It's idiocy.
But burning flags is not like burning Holy books/Temples...
You may burn all the Arabic/Islamic flags expecting the Saudi Flag because a Allah's name is written on it.
I can't believe you don't see the difference between the two :?

"An overwhelming number of Americans revere the flag as a symbol of all that we stand for.ツ"

David Rehbein, National Commander of The American Legion.

It could be the Stars & Stripes, or the Stars & Bars (since people in the south still fly the flag of the old Confederacy), but Americans are fanatically devoted to the flag because it represents the truths enshrined in our most hallowed documents:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
 
The article I quoted was the Washington Post, dude.
Washington post is know as anti-Islam news paper.

You really don't get it, do you?
Have you not seen those photos of "Behead those who insult Islam" protestors? They are actually advocating MURDER and VIOLENCE because someone SAID something they didn't like. The fact that they can do that, too, is freedom of speech.
That's what freedom of speech is, guy.
Someone once said, "you don't have a right not to be insulted."
I suggest you grow the frak up.
Ok so we have the right to threaten that nut like "Kill that idiot" and "Behead him" ?
 
We have a different view of free speech in the US than in other parts of the world. In Europe, I understand, they ban what's deemed "hate speech," and seem to leave it up to some judge or bureaucrat to define what is "hate speech." You can be prosecuted there for the crime of denying the Holocaust, for instance.

It doesn't work that way here. You can deny the Holocaust, advocate the return of the Nazi party, say that blacks should be returned to slavery, say that Muslims (or Christians) should be kicked out of the country, or argue for a revolt against our government.

You can even say, "Kill the infidels!" So long as you're not inciting immediate violence or risking public safety, your speech is protected. As an example of speech that is not protected, you cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre because you're posing a real, immediate risk to other people in the theatre.

Burning any book is free expression. Even burning the American flag is an act of free expression that is protected by our Constitution. We believe that ideas should succeed or fail in the free market of ideas and expression.

Aside from that, if you buy a book, it's YOUR property. Why shouldn't you be able to dispose of it as you will?

Aren't Bibles banned in S. Arabia? If there are no Bibles, then it's no surprise that no one burned a Bible there.
 
Wikipedia is not the best source, but for a somewhat simplified explanation, there is this:

"The United States federal government and state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. See, e.g., Gitlow v. New York (1925), incorporating the free speech clause. Generally speaking, the First Amendment prohibits governments from regulating the content of speech, subject to a few recognized exceptions such as defamation[33] and incitement to riot.[34] Even in cases where speech encourages illegal violence, instances of incitement qualify as criminal only if the threat of violence is imminent.[35] This strict standard prevents prosecution of many cases of incitement, including prosecution of those advocating violent opposition to the government, and those exhorting violence against racial, ethnic, or gender minorities. See, e.g., Yates v. United States (1957), Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, employers may sometimes be prosecuted for tolerating "hate speech" by their employees, if that speech contributes to a broader pattern of harassment resulting in a "hostile or offensive working environment" for other employees.[36] See, e.g., Meritor Savings Bank v. Vinson (1986), Patterson v. McLean Credit Union (1989).

In the 1980s and 1990s, more than 350 public universities adopted "speech codes" regulating discriminatory speech by faculty and students.[37] These codes have not fared well in the courts, where they are frequently overturned as violations of the First Amendment. See, e.g., Doe v. Michigan (1989), UWM Post v. Board of Regents of University of Wisconsin (1991), Dambrot v. Central Michigan University (1995), Corry v. Stanford (1995). Debate over restriction of "hate speech" in public universities has resurfaced with the adoption of anti-harassment codes covering discriminatory speech."

Hate speech - Wikipedia
 
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