Is Mike Cash really gone?

[miki78]

^_^ Its OK you didn't know

It is a shame if Mike Cash has decided to leave though

I hate to see people leave upset

Sometimes it is very hard not to give your opinion if you feel really strongly about something

Its wrong to say Mike Cash's opinion is wrong just becouse it's not everybody elses

Sometimes people just word things badly i do it a lot

I hope he cools off and comes back

Sometimes its good to have somebody to argue with LOL

 

[sabro]

He'll be back, else I'll holler over to Gunma to kick his *** back online XD.

Oh, and maybe in America people can say whatever they want, but not outside your little utopia I'm afraid.

We should explore this a bit more. Apparently there are proper opinions and improper opinions. There are good people as determined by a few, and others who should be penalized, deleted and driven off.

So... according to the Beligians, if you say someone should be shot for deserting, you get a demerit, and your post is deleted.

So perhaps you should be clearer about how we Americans can be more proper.

 

[ArmandV]

Filling the void?

like proper spelling?

Hmm. Sounds like something Mike would say.;-)

 

[leonmarino]

Oh, and maybe in America people can say whatever they want, but not outside your little utopia I'm afraid.

We should explore this a bit more.

We Dutchies had a politician who was assasinated a few years ago (Pim Fortuyn) and an artist who was also brutally murdered a few years later (Theo van Gogh). Why are they dead now? Because they said things not everybody liked. Were the killings justified? Hell no. But right after both incidents politicians started discussing the limits to free speech to avoid such things in the future.. But that's illogical isn't it? One should protect the men and women who have the guts to voice their opinions, not limit them in their freedom.

Now, it might all sounds a bit dramatic as we're talking about a forum, not a important political stage with many stakeholders, but the principle remains the same in my opinion. Besides, who is to decide what is "good" and what is "bad"? People have different obviously, especially in such a place where people from all over the world gather. People and groups of people have different opinions because of cultural, educational and political differences and because of personal experiences. An opinion is an opinion and not better or worse than someone else's. Sure, the quality of the discussion depends on the arguments given by the people debating, but why would someone deny to the right to speak out even before arguments can be brought into the arena?

Wouldn't it be better to try and understand what exactly the other guy is saying? Wouldn't it be a more fruitful learning experience to find out what lies beneath the words typed in the posts? Why people would say the things they do? Isn't that the way we should treat our fellow members?

 

[sabro]

Shhhh. Only proper opinions will be tolerated.

 

[ricecake]

There are forumers here have received " infraction " on lesser offenses.

The subject person in questioned is still living,Mike Cash's post was justifibly deleted in my opinion.

 

[Pachipro]

As I said in the original post that brought all this about Mike expressed an opinion common for people in the US military or in times of war and every country has used a firing squad at one time or another. According to wikipedia:

Execution by firing squad is a method of capital punishment, particularly common in times of war. The firing squad is generally composed of several soldiers or peace officers. The method of execution requires all members of the group to fire simultaneously, thus preventing both disruption of the process by a single member and identification of the member who fired the lethal shot. The condemned is typically blindfolded or hooded, as well as being restrained. Executions can be carried out with the condemned either standing or sitting.

...The method is also the supreme punishment or disciplinary means employed by courts martial for crimes such as cowardice, desertion or mutiny. One such execution was that of Private Eddie Slovik by the U.S. Army in 1945. Slovik was the first U.S. soldier executed for desertion since the American Civil War.

Today, though rarely carried out, military executions, as updated in January 2006, are to be done by lethal injections as prescribed in US Army Regulation 190-55 Chapter 3. Click on the link for full regulation.

If Mike had said that "he should be strapped to a gurney and be leathally injected", or just "executed", I wonder if his post would still have been deleted as "barbaric and inappropriate" for this forum even though it is on the books for the US Military. Still, it doesn't seem right to me and is one of the problems in international forums where people fail to understand anothers culture.

Therefore, he should not have been censored regardless of what one mod thinks. The mods and admins should've gotten together and made a decision. Then, based on the consensus of all, it could have been deleted with an explaination.

I, for one, do hope he comes back.

 

[Elizabeth]

Sure, the quality of the discussion depends on the arguments given by the people debating, but why would someone deny to the right to speak out even before arguments can be brought into the arena?

Mike had a chance to argue his point with as much nuance and depth as he thought appropriate and I'm assuming from Rocklee's lack of context that there was very little if any in the way of explanation. I'm not defending any deletion on these grounds but posting one liners about killing people, if in fact that is what it was, from someone who has a flare for dramatic antics does not to me show a particular concern for serious debate. While it isn't incumbent on the poster to avoid censorship through self-regulation, questions of style do matter. At a minimum, they influence perceptions of judgment and a more considerate approach can ultimately get the same point across with a hand extended in respect that signifies an appreciation of potential cultural misunderstandings.

 

[miki78]

I don't believe in the death penilty in the army or anywhere else

What crime did this soldier commit anyway

 

[Elizabeth]

I have nothing Against Mike Cash even if he has been very rude to me in the past

That's a very admirable perspective to hold onto and live by.
I don't know if he was truly upset or we were all being set up an elaborate entrapment that would trigger this debate. I do think free speech is basically tolorated here but for very high profile, controversial opinionated leaders who demand a great deal of attention, put up deliberately provocative opinions with a minimum of explanation and play with fire and make a lot of enemies....like you said miki, the results pretty much speak for themselves. It goes for using common sense expressiveness and everyday judgment in any sphere of life certainly not limited to the JREF forums. ☝

 

[ArmandV]

What if Mike said, "They ought to ring his neck!" (Another popular American expression) or "Hang the bastard!" What would the mods be saying then?

Mike's expression was/is a common term for a military execution as Pachipro so eloquently stated.

 

[Elizabeth]

What if Mike said, "They ought to ring his neck!" (Another popular American expression) or "Hang the bastard!" What would the mods be saying then?
Mike's expression was/is a common term for a military execution as Pachipro so eloquently stated.

I don't care what the mods would be saying but Mike should have had the foresight to realize it would cause consternation and append a one sentence explanation. Even one that may have been invalid since based on his rephrasing he apparently did believe execution was still the highest punishment allowed.

 

[MeAndroo]

I don't believe in the death penilty in the army or anywhere else
What crime did this soldier commit anyway

According to the 4th post in the thread (and I never saw the original post by Mike Cash), Mike said a soldier charged (and I'm assuming convicted) with desertion should be thrown up against a wall and shot. The solider in question attempted to resign rather than go to Iraq and participate in a war that he publicly disagreed with. The military refused his resignation, and waves were made because he's a commissioned officer.

The issue no longer concerns Wataha, it concerns how speech is moderated on this forum and how personally, politically and emotionally involved moderaters affect the forum dynamic and Mike Cash is the latest example.

Mike obviously felt strongly that the commitment the officer made was more important than a moral objection, and that he should be punished in a way that has been, for better or worse, a historical part of military law (as illustrated by Pachipro). Being for or against capital punishment is obviously your right as a free-thinking human being, as is being for or against the current military actions the US is taking the Middle East. Problems arise when people become emotionally involved in political debate and say things about a person that may rub some people the wrong way (Mike) or make broad sweeping statements about an entire country that does the same thing (Rocklee).

I found this entire incident to be unfortunate, as I feel Mike's contribution to the forum in many respects made up for his curtness. People have different personalities, and in an international forum made up of different demographics, there needs to be tolerance on the part of the forum-goers and the administration, for lack of a better term, in equal parts. My personal viewpoint is that this didn't happen.

 

[Supervin]

Argh, he can't leave... otherwise who's gonna give the wry, impromptu one-liners now?

 

[dulac]

There's nothing wrong with generalizing; everyone does it.

I really hope you were being facetious, Kinsao...
***
It was one of those strange cases where I agreed with someone I generally don't like... and disagreed with the others.
Yeah, the forum has changed, but I guess the Internet still remains the Internet.

 

[nice gaijin]

I really hope you were being facetious, Kinsao...
***
It was one of those strange cases where I agreed with someone I generally don't like... and disagreed with the others.
Yeah, the forum has changed, but I guess the Internet still remains the Internet.

my my, you certainly talk like an old hand for someone with only 6 posts to your name.

 

[Pachipro]

Argh, he can't leave... otherwise who's gonna give the wry, impromptu one-liners now?

How true! Mike had a way of saying something in one sentence that would take me, and others, a few paragraphs in order to say the same exact thing and it made you laugh to see the truth of what he said. Sure made one think that's for sure.

Also, Mike was very helpful to newbies when they had a question. He always posted a link or offered some advice to those seriously looking for answers.

 

[ArmandV]

How true! Mike had a way of saying something in one sentence that would take me, and others, a few paragraphs in order to say the same exact thing and it made you laugh to see the truth of what he said. Sure made one think that's for sure.

Exactly. Who else can deflate inflated egos with one sentence? (And make the rest of us laugh.)

 

[Sukotto]

"should be put up against a wall and shot"
I would agree is a common enough statement in the US.
But maybe more common in jest?

How does one lose their fundamental human right of free speech just
by going somewhere? Is there like a force field of sorts that prevents one from talking/posting? Or is one's voice box/fingers garnered suddenly inoperable?

I'd have to stick with the "freedom of speech for those I disagree with.
or else i ain't for free speech"



in the Sci-fi realm of things and/or perhaps including those killings leonmarino
mentioned in the Netherlands, and including something called "Gladio" in Europe during the cold war, and the numerous fascist-type regimes the US gov't has supported throughout Latin America and death squads and paramilitaries they still support say, like in Colombia, but we for the most part kept in the dark of,
Political killings take place all over the world (except at the center of empire - the US) (unless you think Paul Wellstone was offed? for looking into Colombia perhaps? I don't)

perhaps this is why Rock Lee is a bit gun shy towards such statements?
I don't know? I'm inventing things.
We in the US do receive such crap foreign news coverage so might be insensitive to such. Anyone who has spent an amount of time abroad can attest to the news coverage.
Plus according to Amnesty International, during 2005 94% of those executed were in China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the United States alone.
So one can see how that would make it look like advocating the death penalty would seem barbaric, i.e. most everywhere it is not done.



I hope MikeCash did not leave permanently. He was here before I was
so I sort of feel it's more his place than mine.
I didn't mean to try to make anybody leave or get p.o.'d
Maybe I don't know how to phrase my statements?

 

[RockLee]

Well, I think the fact he got an infraction (I can't specify any other infraction than the existing ones) weighs more than the fact I deleted his message.
He posted this : "The man should be stood up against a wall and shot."
Now maybe some of you Americans think it's ok to say things like this, but such personal opinions are totally not appropriate. Clear as that, whether you like it or not. The whole "but he thinks in the army bla bla; American tradition bla bla" is bs. He thinks the man should get a bullet to the brain, and there is nothing more to it. This language is not appropriate and not tolerated on JREF.
READ THE RULES!

KEEP YOUR POSTS (FAMILY-)FRIENDLY
Please avoid explicit, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behavior. Forum posts that contain explicit, obscene or vulgar language will be removed.

 

[ricecake]

Just a note,Jref.com is NO property of US Department of Defense or The Pentagon.US military codes have no place on this forum for it's a private domain.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Just one man's opinion, but I don't think Mike's post was explicit, obscene, or vulgar.

 

[miki78]

I think it is sad people are arguing over this

I think Mike Cash really just worded his opinion wrong

should be put up against a wall and shot is a terrible thing to say but it is a common phrase in the UK and the US

When you believe somebody is a despicable person or has commited a terrible crime you would prob hear most people say this

 

[JimmySeal]

Now maybe some of you Americans think it's ok to say things like this, but such personal opinions are totally not appropriate.

It wasn't a personal opinion. He was paraphrasing US military code, and since the soldier is a US soldier, it is completely relevant.

If that comment is what constitutes "explicit" then by the same reasoning, any posts that mention Japanese raping other East Asians, and nuclear bombs dropped on Japan, should be deleted immediately. It doesn't matter what the posters' intent was; such posts are equally explicit.

 

[Elizabeth]

In my family at least it's way more obscene and vulgar to call the person that is trying to tell you something 'stupid' or an 'idiot', which Mike is so renowned for here. A few examples would help a lot as I know I've personally read at JREF much more explicit descriptions of sex and violence and human carnage than a very terse statement of fact, or what he believed was still the reality of American military justice.