Is it possible to see...

You know... I see that alot of you points are good, lastmagi and Kinsao. As fars degenerating threads that is. There's a lack of good discussion threads. I personally like discussions... and debating. Though not many others like too.

The thing is, those kinds of threads die fast here... they go offtopic, people argue in unconstructive ways, or they simply go ignored. I think that has to do with the fact that the majority of people are visual type people (I mean pictorial, not visual kei ^^ they remember images... when I see long posts I just see a bunch of words. I have a short attention span and can't read too much at once... especially arguementive stuff. Books are different I suppose... I don't get as easily distracted with them. Also... I feel like there is rarely any worthwhile content in the arguements. I don't feel like I walk away with anything. As if it goes in one ear and out the other.

We really have a bit of an unbalance here as far as between discussion and just plain eye candy threads. No I would say theres a huge imbalance. I think partially cause of the whole visual thing, and that it is much easier to attack people rather than make a reasonable arguement. Since that's the case quickly people will jump in and say "shut up this is silly" and the topic dies... or they go offtopic to avoid conflict. Face it no one like conflict. Well... that's a bit untrue, but most people like to stay safe and far from conflict.

What can you do though... I find even some of my introduction threads get unnoticed. As Kinsao said... it's most likely because there is little info and few pictures and the music is hard to find. I always try to provide music but I get tired of it because no one can appreciate it. They download them and the band never gets mentioned again. Then people get mad when I dont tell them about bands or share more music. But they are bands that are special to me. I don't want to share them if people just download them to simply make there "musical horizons" seem wider. Or download them and never attempt to buy there cds and support them. Oh well, I can't change people. I'll admit there are a few faithful people who thrive off new and interesting bands, but most people like to stick to the safe popular ones. It's easier to "discuss" about them

Why can't we all just be happy and listen to the only band in Japan that matters....Mr.Children.

I'm totally serious too. Mr.Children should dictate all of your lives, as it does mine.

hahahahahahaha that my friend was the best post ever, but sex machine guns takes me away.

duff_o_josh said:

the words you used were not very rude, they just dont like to read things that make them think twice about what they like. dont worry mamoru-kun.

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I appreciate your action Duff, but the words I used were indeed rude in themselves (zombie especially). Shemale is not rude in itself, but well, being used the way I did, I can easily understand that it can hurt some people. But well well, in other words, there is always other ways to say what you want to say ;-)...even if this time, as I said above, I knew why I intentionally used those particular words (...and that's why I said sorry).

blade_bltz said:

Why can't we all just be happy and listen to the only band in Japan that matters....Mr.Children.

I'm totally serious too. Mr.Children should dictate all of your lives, as it does mine.

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I'll probably be killed but...who is Mr.Children?

zombie isnt bad, infact the words you used, every 8 year old native english speakers uses, well maybe shemale for the special ones. you started a great thread so dont give up lets keep on fighting :box: 窶堋ｪ窶堙ｱ窶堙寂?堙≫?堙??堙仰！

in the movie wild zero starring guitar wolf all of the zombies had the same make up we see on all of these ridiculous bands concerned with just visuals. guitar wolf being all japanese rock made a movie battling this. we have to fight for ACE and for bass wolf, god bless his soul. lets fight for rock and roll!....and to clean up all this spam. :joyful:

duff_o_josh said:

zombie isnt bad, infact the words you used, every 8 year old native english speakers uses, well maybe shemale for the special ones. you started a great thread so dont give up lets keep on fighting :box: 窶堋ｪ窶堙ｱ窶堙寂?堙≫?堙??堙仰！

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LOL, I know someone who will be soon flamed more than I was! ;-) I personnaly got my answers. I should feel already happy with that, seeing how the topic goes ;-)

Mamoru-kun said:

May I remind that basicaly, beside the fact that I used some quite rude words (for which I already said sorry), I was asking info about some specific groups (for which I already got some informations)?

More globally, I was also asking why more (ancien) traditionnal groups were not shown in this forum, but for that question too I got an answer (even in such a discution, right filtering gives you good answers ;-))

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Ohh... well see then I've completly misunderstood the whole point of your thread... my apologies. I feel quite dumb now.

duff_o_josh said:

the words you used were not very rude, they just dont like to read things that make them think twice about what they like. dont worry mamoru-kun.

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That's not true. I never thought twice about what I like... I thought it was a little unsensitive to call people we admire and possibly even look up to such names.

Then again... can't say I've never done the same. It was more of an attack than a question... or atleast that is the aftertaste I got.

opinions attack each other every day thats why we are human, live with it.

I'll probably be killed but...who is Mr.Children?

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Haha, no way man I'm not that kind of guy. Sadly, I don't have much stamina when it comes to writing long messages on forums, but if pushed I could write a freakin thesis on the greatness of this band. I'm surprised you don't know about them, because they are arguably the most popular Japanese band of all time. I guess they don't appeal to the foreign J-pop loving subculture because they are...a straightforward rock band (but of course so much more ), rather than a Visual Kei band which, as proven by this forum, attracts a large following out of Japan. But they ARE one of the most versatile rock bands I've heard, and each one of their 10 albums (they've been around for a while) has its own distinct feel. They started off with a J-poppy, light, catchy sound in the early 90's, winning the national Japan music award for their song "Innocent World" in 1994. In the mid 90's they developed a more rock and roll sound with songs like "Hikari no sasu houhe." And at the turn of the millenium, I believe they started fully realizing their ability and their sound matured. Their latest album "Shifuku no Oto" is probably my favorite of theirs, and then in 2004 they AGAIN won the national Japan music award for their song "Sign," 10 years after "Innocent World." They are now set to release an 11th album later this month.

Honestly, if you want a non VK J-pop experience, Mr.Children is for you.

I'm sorry... does it look like I'm crying and in a pitiful state over it. ☝

Maybe you should read my posts... I wasn't attacking him for it.

blade_bltz said:

They started off with a J-poppy, light, catchy sound in the early 90's, winning the national Japan music award for their song "Innocent World" in 1994. In the mid 90's they developed a more rock and roll sound with songs like "Hikari no sasu houhe."

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Well in that case I've probably already heard (and even perhaps loved) their songs without even knowing that it was them. I'm the kind of people falling in love with a song, without being able to say who is singing, nor what's the song title (except for the groups I spoke about earlier, which I deeply loved one day)

i just meant to say that his words were not very harsh, unless you are not a native speaker of english then i can see how you could be offended. i guess i just meant to say, relax

Mamoru-kun said:

Congratulation! First personnal attack of the topic ;-)

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It's not a personal attack, by far ! It's a fact my dear French fellow countrymember ;-) ! If you don't like it, then just don't visit those topics.It seems all you want to do is start a flamewar by starting meaningless threads like this which angers other members.If you don't like it, just keep away from it, hell you're only on this forum for a few weeks and you already think you can run the place your way

Oh... no I guess I spoke wrong too. I meant to say that I wasn't deeply offended or anything. I actually directed him to some safer terms to use in the midst of fans and offered to help him find bands that were easier on his eyes.

RockLee said:

It's not a personal attack, by far ! It's a fact my dear French fellow countrymember ;-) ! If you don't like it, then just don't visit those topics.It seems all you want to do is start a flamewar by starting meaningless threads like this which angers other members.If you don't like it, just keep away from it, hell you're only on this forum for a few weeks and you already think you can run the place your way

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when did that happen?

pinkkillerkisou said:

Oh... no I guess I spoke wrong too. I meant to say that I wasn't deeply offended or anything. I actually directed him to some safer terms to use in the midst of fans and offered to help him find bands that were easier on his eyes.

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thats true sorry, you also seem to appreciate music, more people who are active in this section should learn from you it seems.

RockLee said:

If you don't like it, just keep away from it, hell you're only on this forum for a few weeks and you already think you can run the place your way

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Would you mind please to read what has been written untill now, and not only my first two posts?

Mamoru-kun said:

Would you mind please to read what has been written untill now, and not only my first two posts?

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Done that, still think I needed to answer that post.It stands apart from the other things

Ho, and by the way Rocklee, I supose that if I had answered you something like "...you entered the discution after x posts just the argue with me. It's natural, as you are a Flemish", you wouldn't have took that as a direct hit? May I make you notice that it was not what I said? And may I remind you (as you already read this entire topic) that I already said sorry about the way I opened it? And finally, may I remind you that I was asking something in this topic, for which I already got partial answers?

And finally, permit me to point that if I'm not permitted to "run" this forum as you say (even if I don't feel that it's what I did), you shouldn't permit yourself to look down on me like that just because I'm new in the forum and you are an old fellower...

Rocklee, as I wrote one or two times before, I have nothing against you, and if you read carefully what I wrote after my two first posts, you'll notice that I'm not the kind of people "spaming to be flamed", nor the kind of people hating other people in general. I hope that it was just a misunderstanding between us...(NB: what will think other forum members about Belgium if they see us arguing like this? ;-))

Mamoru-kun said:

Ho, and by the way Rocklee, I supose that if I had answered you something like "...you entered the discution after x posts just the argue with me. It's natural, as you are a Flemish", you wouldn't have took that as a direct hit? May I make you notice that it was not what I said? And may I remind you (as you already read this entire topic) that I already said sorry about the way I opened it? And finally, may I remind you that I was asking something in this topic, for which I already got partial answers?

And finally, permit me to point that if I'm not permitted to "run" this forum as you say (even if I don't feel that it's what I did), you shouldn't permit yourself to look down on me like that just because I'm new in the forum and you are an old fellower...

Rocklee, as I wrote one or two times before, I have nothing against you, and if you read carefully what I wrote after my two first posts, you'll notice that I'm not the kind of people "spaming to be flamed", nor the kind of people hating other people in general. I hope that it was just a misunderstanding between us...(NB: what will think other forum members about Belgium if they see us arguing like this? ;-))

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I don't have anything against you, but the way you act in some posts gave that impression (remind the picture thread ?) Maybe you don't mean it that way but to some people it looks as if you intentionally do it ^.^"

It's usual to drag the Wallonians trough the dirt, a little bit of healthy teasing can't hurt can it ? ;-) (Something we Flemish ppl are fond off )
Hmm, now be honest, you don't make a thread like this without knowing you'll get negative response ;-)

duff_o_josh said:

ah i realize i cant argue with you guys, sorry. a shame, what a shame
visual kei came from angura kei which was influenced heavily by traditional japan. visual kei encorporates gothic attributes into itself along with metal and industrial. most people in japan who like this music dress as a gothic lolita. so i am not far off saying that it was gothic. look at shibuya kei noob :smoke:

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Uh-uh...Whatever you say.

Newbie - Wikipedia

None of those, as to my knowledge, fit me whatsoever, nor do the other uses for the term. Except the so-called 'n00b talk' that people use to make fan of illiterates. I do that all the time, however, I'm not doing it here, so it doesn't even come close to applying, let alone insulting either.

Anyway, with that out of the way, got proof of this please and thank you? Going by what I've heard from 'real' goths, 'tis the music, not the looks that make one gothic, so, thusly...

Oh! And, lastly, let's say I have this horse stallion...And his DNA was 'influenced' by many different breeds, one tiny bit having been from the Brabant breed. Would that make him a Brabant then? Going by what you said, apparently it does indeed...

lastmagi said:

As I've said before, posts like that get pushed back and ignored. Once more you ignore my point, and oversimplify. It's not THAT there are no threads that I want to see, it's that the general atmosphere of the forum makes it not conducive to other kinds of discussions.

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The only reason I don't respond to them is because I have absolutely nothing to say about them. I don't know the bands, let alone do I know any information about them. Simple as that.

Here you refused to respond to my point in a reasonable manner. You don't provide your arguments in a level-headed way, and you just attack. It's this kind of superficial commentary that makes many Jmusic threads degenerative. Kindly read my posts and respond to the points in an adult manner.

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No, actually, I just find your argument to be bad. All it seems to consist of is an opinion that doesn't get backed up by anything and 'refer to so-and-so part of whatever post I made here', which is indeed not a good argument in the slightest way possible. But that just may be my oh-so screwed up way of thinking. Silly me.

But the fact is that you generalized. One person could have said it, two could have said it, ten people could have said it in the forum, but that won't be representative of the whole population.

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Get over it. I'm not going to go '(well, a lot of them anyway apparently)' after each thing I say. When I generalize I kind of expect people to to get what I'm saying, as in the apparent majority. Sorry, my bad. Must still giving the general population of people too much credit then...

And there. I didn't generalize there. Happy now?

Er. I would like to warn you that I am quite capable of reading what is implicit in statements. Even so, the quote that I specifically referenced for you to review, and which I will show here again was:



So yes, I suppose it was a good try. Moving along.

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No...Last time I checked, the human body isn't art. And there are different types of beauty too (not to mention art as well). So, thusly, all I could possibly be saying is that they are being ignorant about just one aspect of beauty and 'art' because of a reason that, as to my knowledge, is kind of stupid.

So nope, nope! Still not a very good try at all!

Sorry, I chuckled at this part. This obviously points out that you don't know that GQ stands for Gentlemen's Quarterly. If we go look it up on wiki:



Thus you made a false assumption which ultimately undermined what you said.

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Precisely! FASHION and STYLE! Not the beauty of the models. So, yes, I made a bit of an assumption, but I don't find it incorrect whatsoever.

Sure, who am I to say that these people don't like the makeup? But is it overdone sometimes? Yes. Does it get boring after a while? Yes. Will we grow out of it someday? Yes. Do I really care as much about the makeup themselves as much as the overzealous emphasis artists and fans (mind you, not all) put on it? Not really.

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Is it over-done sometomes? Nope. Does it get boring after a while? Nope. Will some of us grow out of it eventually? Possibly, although not I.

'Tis an opinion that cannot be right or wrong.

I refer you to the sentence immediately after the one you quoted.

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Again, YOUR opinion. MY opinion. Neither is wrong. One cannot say the other is wrong or right in this particular situation.

So basically you removed something I said from context.

Oh well.

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Uh-uh...Right...Whatever you say.

duff_o_josh said:

the words you used were not very rude, they just dont like to read things that make them think twice about what they like. dont worry mamoru-kun.

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Ehhh...No. Calling someone or something a 'she-male zombie' or 'almost non-human' or whatever is quite indeed rude. Actually, it's beyond that. It's an unnecessary assault really.

RockLee said:

It's usual to drag the Wallonians trough the dirt, a little bit of healthy teasing can't hurt can it ? ;-) (Something we Flemish ppl are fond off )

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Ouf! You make me feel better. I was already thinking that you could have been a "Wallen buiten" kind of person! The Flemish I personnaly know are good friends of mine. It would have been a pitty to have a Flemish enemy now ;-)

RockLee said:

Hmm, now be honest, you don't make a thread like this without knowing you'll get negative response ;-)

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I know. And to tell the truth, that was 10% of my intention (you can feel it especially with my last two PS in my very first post). That was a personnal reaction on something I don't understand, but hey, I supose that I can also keep the right to show my opinion a little, ne ;-)

There is just one thing I'd like to clarify: I understand your point of view about some "new people reactions" in general, some people trying to show themself outside the mass (I'm not sure that my english is correct here). I also don't have a lot of interest in such people (generaly young people just trying to act like adults on forums). But please keep in mind that I'm not (well, I think so) that kind of person. I'm arround 30 (my God, already!), and have a long past experience in forums. So in the same way you reacted against me in this topic, I reacted in the "pictures" topic you spoke about above. There is no link with the fact that I'm new or not in this forum. There is just some things I cannot let pass without a warning or a comment (but that is perhaps my past as an op in chats and forums). But once again, I can understand that it can be disturbing when it's done by an only few post-old member.

duff_o_josh said:

thats true sorry, you also seem to appreciate music, more people who are active in this section should learn from you it seems.

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Again, someone demostrates their oh-so horribly intense rudeness!

duff_o_josh said:

thats true sorry, you also seem to appreciate music, more people who are active in this section should learn from you it seems.

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Hah that was rude. I mean even if we dont know about Jrock soo much as pinkkiller does, it doesnt mean that we cant love the music and enjoy it.

I don't claim to know anything.

I see this turning into an attack thread rather than discussion.

somewhere above it mentions how threads like these die quickly. take the thread i started about the visual, it had discussion, it had bitching, it ended. the typical way of these kind of threads. this one seems to be verging on the bitching stage so unless we go back to discussing it'll soon fade off.
i think that we all know more than each other about jrock. no offence to pkk of cors. what i'm trying to say is, somebody might know more about Kagrra than the rest of us (i.e Furan), someone might know more about miyavi than the rest (i.e isay) and so on. i think, like anchyy said, you don't have to particularly KNOW all about jrock to love it.
and there are plenty of non visual bands out there, its just that the vk scene gets more attention (good or bad) because of the way they look. if you would have taken time to read some of the threads in here Mamoru-kun you would have come across such bands like Road of Major for example, and Merry aren't exactly girly looking.
last thing, i couldn't stop laughing at that link you posted Horizon. about the noob. to me it means 'nob' so i never knew it apparently meant newbie instead.
if any of that sounded offensive in anyway it didn't mean to *hands cookie* especially to pkk, how could i be offensive to you?! *smiles* please don't get scared that i'm your stalker or something lol. i'm just letting you know i like you.
great. now that sounds like a love confession.
*shuts up*