Is it possible to see...

..something else than shemale-zombies-style JPop singers here? I don't say that I have something against those (almost non-)human gothic singers, with strange piercing breaking their faces, false eyes, false hair, false a-lot-of-things (...ho well, OK OK, I say it!), but would it be possible to see more posts (and please don't say "Post yourself then!") about more -natural- singers, singers which feel good in their life (at least that's what they are showing), who dress normally, who act normally (no sex-related behavior on scene)? Reading the recent posts, it's as if JPop is only ruled by post-apocalyptic hard rockers nowadays...where are the good old-one, "Dream Comes True", "Zard", "Speed", "Every Little Thing" (I know I know, ten years ago groups, but they were great)? Have they all disappeared?

PS: sorry if I offended some people...it was just not (especially) intended
PS2: don't flame me please!...I'm just a poor normal-human being who don't understand that dark face of Humans...

You don't intent to offend people by calling some of our favourite artists "shemale zombies" and other insulting things? Well, sorry, I'm already offended.

And I know you said to not tell you to post yourself, but seriously, start your own thread about something you like. Otherwise it probably won't happen. We're not starting topics about music that we're not interested in, but maybe you can show us something else, then?

Also what the heck is "normal"?! And who are we to judge what is normal for others? These bands are the norm for me.

hebiichigo is right... start your own thread about what you like... is it a problem? :?

well, saying "almost non-human gothic singers" is a problem....

I think the "shemale zombies" eek you refer to are beautiful.

There are plenty of non-visual bands (which is probably a better term to use) out there. Are you actually looking for recommendations or just to ask if they exist and want pictorial proof.

Sorry sorry, that's true, I used too much bad words... Strange to hear perhaps, but I personnaly like their songs, not a joke. I just don't understand their way of showing themself arround (especially the piercings, and the way they try to look like girls). But well, I understand that some people...well, like that kind of things. But my question is still open: what happened to the...more usual (if you permit me) ancien groups?

Well then why is the image an issue. You dont HAVEto look at them you know. Looks are just icing on the cake... it's the music that matters. It's just a style... and I can tell you why they dress that way. It's quite simple and a bit sad. It sells... simple as that. Unfortunately though some bands are all image and crap music...

When you say ancient... your mean like how long ago exactly?

Which bands do you like... I might be able to recommend some similar bands to your tastes that are easier on your eyes. :?

Hm... I guess I don't mind the "shemale zombies" if the music is good as much as the heavy bias towards them. The bias is actually pretty counter-productive.

The problem with posting about bands not within the norms of this board is that it gets easily pushed back in favor of other bands, even though they may not have much merit. As much as Jmusic fans champion variety in their music, the discussions here are unbelievably predictable.

Well then why is the image an issue. You dont HAVEto look at them you know.

Click to expand...

Er...

Vidoll
Gazette
+D'espairsRay+
Lab.
Nightmare

Just the first few band-related threads shown on the page, as a sample. Maybe I'm mistaken, but just about all of them have large images more or less shoved in your face.

This is true... I have post exceptional bands... one of them is Aushvitz... not that attractive... but one of the best bands I have ever had the pleasure of listening too. Galneryus is another good one... Syu the guitarist of Galneryus is the vocalist/guitarist of Aushvitz... he is incredibly talented... but I havent made a thread for Galneryus yet. :sorry: god knows how farback the Aushvitz thread is... but you can't help the fact that the popular bands get the attention... unless you start killing off fangirls of these more popular bands...

Yea... that's true too Most are female fans on this JPop board... and they like their eye candy, that they do. ^^;

Mamoru-kun said:

Sorry sorry, that's true, I used too much bad words... Strange to hear perhaps, but I personnaly like their songs, not a joke. I just don't understand their way of showing themself arround (especially the piercings, and the way they try to look like girls). But well, I understand that some people...well, like that kind of things. But my question is still open: what happened to the...more usual (if you permit me) ancien groups?

Click to expand...

well... it's because of people's tastes...

i mean... people commonly like something that's not really usual and attractive (in this case, for us, visual bands are more attractive than non-visual ones). so people need to discuss more about it. more. there're plenty of visual bands... they're plenty. they're interesting. there're more and more! --> i hope u get it

but for me, it doesn't mean the non-visual bands are not good. they are good. hey, i like Spitz and Do As Infinity you know...

pinkkillerkisou said:

When you say ancient... your mean like how long ago exactly?

Which bands do you like... I might be able to recommend some similar bands to your tastes that are easier on your eyes. :?

Click to expand...

Well, perhaps no more than what I wrote before: Zard, Every Little Thing, Dream Comes True,.... In fact, I am personally not looking for songs of those groups, or similar groups (Internet is an easy engine for that), but I was more wondering why those groups topics disappeared (if ever existed) from the forums. And also why they've been replaced by those...how would you classify them? Well, I don't want to use the expressions I used before, but you know what kind of groups I am speaking about. I'm not the one thinking that good songs just "die", so why is nobody speaking about the good past songs (80s and 90s JPop music), in general.

(Note: to tell the truth, my first post was too offensive, I admit it (and I indeed did it that way, shame on me)...but I have to say that, just before posting it, I was wandering in this JPop part of the forum, and found a girl that I thought very attractive. Well...perhaps 30 seconds before writing my post, I was shocked as I understood that "she" was a boy's band singer... and that's why I posted in fact. But that's not an excuse, I know)

Last time I checked, they weren't gothic. Just visual.

As for me, I don't really know any "normal" bands and, quite frankly, who cares about the clothes one wears or what they wear as accessories? Caring about that is rather shallow. Especially considering how you don't even have to look at 'em, like has already been stated.

Oh! And, also, you offended me as well, but ehh...

As for your non-excuse, well...We females who are completely and utterly straight can and will gladly state rather another girl is pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, et cetera. What I can't understand to a certain degree is why men can't do the same? Are you all just that 'homophobic' or something?

Lastmagi said:

Just the first few band-related threads shown on the page, as a sample. Maybe I'm mistaken, but just about all of them have large images more or less shoved in your face.

Click to expand...

Precisely. Threads. With titles that plainly and clearly say what the topic is about. If one does not want to look at these people, not only do they need some medication quickly, then perhaps they should either read the titles or start using their brains? I mean, jeez! Lots and lots of fans WANT to see who they listen to so much after all. So it's only common sense really...Not to mention I do so believe one of the reasons people make these threads are to either get people interested in the band or give more information about them, so, ummm...Yeah...Pictures help us to see who is who. 'Tis also plain and complete common logic type of thing there too.

hebiichigo said:

Also what the heck is "normal"?! And who are we to judge what is normal for others? These bands are the norm for me.

Click to expand...

I completely agree, these bands are normal, original, creative, and talented false eyes/hair/bodies? er no, just because they wear contacts, dye their hair and have nice bodies doesnt make them "fake" :auch: a good example of fake = Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Eminem.... THEYRE fake, jrockers arent... Natural singers you say? Well they are natural singers... what ever, an opinion is an opinion, but then again, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all

lastmagi said:

Just the first few band-related threads shown on the page, as a sample. Maybe I'm mistaken, but just about all of them have large images more or less shoved in your face.

Click to expand...

Its an introduction of the band to people who have never seen/heard them before, if you're not interested, then don't look ; you can always just block images, so yeah, no reason to complain about the pictures ☝

Horizon said:

As for your non-excuse, well...We females who are completely and utterly straight can and will gladly state rather another girl is pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, et cetera. What I can't understand to a certain degree is why men can't do the same? Are you all just that 'homophobic' or something?

Click to expand...

Yes, I don't understand that either... I'm bisexual, so yeah I look at girls, but my straight friends won't deny that a girl is pretty/attractive when they see one. Guys are just stupid, insecure, and they have too much unneeded pride, which pisses the sh!t out of me... :auch:

Another reason why I love Gakuto:

Gakuto Kamui said:

"Its not that I like men sexually, just that I can admit when they are beautiful."

Click to expand...

Takes a real man to admit that

mamoru-kun is absolutely right, you have turn this section into a place of not jpop but japanese gothic culture. there is a big difference between the two. not only have you done that but you mock him personally when all he did was post a comment about these "pop" stars that are absolutely ridiculous. make up hair and costumes are a big thing but these guys dont know how to rock. not one bit. when i try to read one of your threads all it is a spam section dedicated to how cute one of the guys are, when do you talk about the technicallity of the guitar riff in that one song, or the meaning of lyrics in another? do you do things like this?

Horizon said:

As for me, I don't really know any "normal" bands and, quite frankly, who cares about the clothes one wears or what they wear as accessories?

Click to expand...

This point seems well made at first, but let's delve further. I see a pattern. Most, if not all, of the bands discussed here involve having archetypical makeup and costumes. In order to not care about the visuals and accessories, there must be an equally random distribution of both these bands and bands that don't exhibit these visual traits, because music and visuals do not necessarily correlate (see below). But the heavy skew of the threads are towards visual bands. So, underneath it all, who really cares about visuals, or at least Visual Kei? I know I for one do not- I listen to both VK and non-VK bands.

Horizon said:

Especially considering how you don't even have to look at 'em, like has already been stated.

Click to expand...

I've already addressed this point. See above post.

Horizon said:

As for your non-excuse, well...We females who are completely and utterly straight can and will gladly state rather another girl is pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, et cetera. What I can't understand to a certain degree is why men can't do the same?

Click to expand...

The point here made is unfortunately counter-productive, particularly for feminists. For starters, it tries to defend by using a stereotype which hurts both sides (women understand beauty and art, men don't). Secondly, it simplifies the reasoning behind why some people (which you generalized to be ﾂ"menﾂ" from Mamoru-kun) don't like what they see: because they are afraid of being seen as gay. But to only see that reason is to deny the existence of others. Perhaps some see the images as gimmicky. Or too eccentric. Or the makeup too overdone (much as women who use too much makeup end up worse off). Perhaps we see it as an overused device used over and over again. The tastes may not fit the viewer (more likely.) The ﾂ"artﾂ" is contrived and too artificial. Whatever the reason, it cannot be simplified to what you suggest.

GQ, by the way, features very handsome men on the covers. Many men subscribe to the magazine.

Precisely. Threads. With titles that plainly and clearly say what the topic is about. If one does not want to look at these people, not only do they need some medication quickly, then perhaps they should either read the titles or start using their brains? I mean, jeez! Lots and lots of fans WANT to see who they listen to so much after all. So it's only common sense really...Not to mention I do so believe one of the reasons people make these threads are to either get people interested in the band or give more information about them, so, ummm...Yeah...Pictures help us to see who is who. 'Tis also plain and complete common logic type of thing there too.

Click to expand...

Again, you simplify, as well as ignore the point of what I wrote. Part of the issue is not THAT there are pictures, but that the pictures are placed in the forefront of everything. It's the first thing you see, the largest thing you see, and the last thing I care about. It's true to a degree that bands benefit from pictures to round out for the public who they are. But to put up so many 600x800 size pictures of bands in uninteresting makeup is overdoing things, unwarranted, and fails to bring in more people unused to this but may potentially like it. I doubt supporters of Koizumi flash cosmetically refined images of him in all his hot manliness everywhere they go, nor will it win me over.

Also, I've found that the band's images often do not reflect their music. Elegantly costumed artists can be either good heavy rockers or, er, bad heavy rockers. So why should I trust their image to lead me to their music? There is little to no correlation between looks and music, and one should not be tempted to superficially think so.

Another point I was trying to make was more about the genre. I know VK bands do not stay completely rock, and sometimes experiment a bit. But by and large they are rock. I know (or hope) that J-Music is more diverse than just rock-oriented and pop-oriented bands. For my part, I'd like to hear more outside of that boundary. Otherwise, what I hear starts to get stale, as do the discussions.

Moving along.

Natural singers you say? Well they are natural singers...

Click to expand...

Ever heard of Kana? She seems a bit too natural, eh.

what ever, an opinion is an opinion, but then again, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all

Click to expand...

Kinda like in China, or any totalitarian regime. Damn critics!

Its an introduction of the band to people who have never seen/heard them before, if you're not interested, then don't look ;

Click to expand...

The pictures are not necessary. They're overdone (if you'd read what I wrote, you'd see that was what I was saying). I'm always interested in trying out new bands, but that means wading through piles of uninteresting pictures and superficial commentary (ﾂ"I liek the voiceﾂ"). In the end, I don't bother to look since the discussions that follow aren't that great, but it's the sheer number of people who follow this format that makes J-Music not conducive to new kinds of discussions.

you can always just block images, so yeah, no reason to complain about the pictures

Click to expand...

Just for the JPop section? I doubt it; I go to other sections, too. Besides, I'm not one to simply ignore and pretend the state of JPop/Rock discussions isn't going the way it is. I'm a fan too.

Guys are just stupid, insecure, and they have too much unneeded pride

Click to expand...

Thanks.

More to come...

Try Miyavi, he's normal! ... at least last time I checked he wasn't a she-male zombie

This is. .interesting. I'll be back! *runs away*

lastemagi. Damn it, what part of 'you don't have to look' don't you understand?
If you don't want to look at the bands, then keep away from the posts, and since it's mostly spam in here anyway(which I admit it is), why come here at all?
And make up your mind, you say you think the pictures unteresting, then why are you so mad about them. If you don't care, you don't mind, right?

To some other person, there are discussions about songs people like, only most of us don't know japanese(therefor can't discuss the meaning of the lyrics), or play an instrument so we don't go "Oh, I like that riff." "Yeah and the naext one is kind of dull, but then there's...."

duff_o_josh: You can't say it's been made into a discussion about japanese gothic culture, because few of these bands actually have a gothic image.
There are lots of Oshare-kei bands(like Panic Channel, An Cafe, Kra), which can hardly be called gothic.

Mamoru-kun: I know that there was a thread for Dreams come True(Don't know about the others), but it dissappeared. It's quite obvious then that people aren't interested.
Either they're too old, or people just don't like them. That's as simple as it is.
The reason why I don't support the threads on non-visual bands (I really can't speak for everyone in here) is simply that I havn't found any that interest me.
The ones I've seen are pop-skate-punk or guitar-pop bands.
WOW! YES! It's because of the music they play!

Horizon said:

As for your non-excuse, well...We females who are completely and utterly straight can and will gladly state rather another girl is pretty, beautiful, gorgeous, et cetera. What I can't understand to a certain degree is why men can't do the same? Are you all just that 'homophobic' or something?

Click to expand...

No no, quite the oposite. I'm not against boys at all. I would even say that if I would have been gay, I would have probably boy hunt some people (Ricky Martin for exemple ;-)). What makes me sick is when I see boys, who could indeed be pretty, showing like girls in JPop shows. That's what -I- don't understand...

Something else I'd like to be explained: someone told me that such groups (and/or gothic groups) are dressing the way they do to become special, to get out of the sheeps herd (sorry, it's perhaps only a french expression). But well, now there is soo much groups like that the the entire sheeps herd became gothic (or whatever you call it...VK, is it right?). Then there, where is the difference between them?

rose_of_eternity said:

Natural singers you say? Well they are natural singers... what ever, an opinion is an opinion, but then again, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all

Click to expand...

Right, and I already said sorry for that...

isayhello said:

Try Miyavi, he's normal! ... at least last time I checked he wasn't a she-male zombie

This is. .interesting. I'll be back! *runs away*

Click to expand...

Well...with all due respect, if that Miyavi is the one showing in the images of your signature...yes, you're right, I don't think that zombies do insane things as he does. But frankly, I hope that my two childs won't grow up in a world filled with too much people like that...

PS: once again, I don't say anything about his mucis (which I've probably never heard BTW). I'm just reacting about his behaviour and his please-look-at-me way of dressing...

Dollporn said:

Mamoru-kun: I know that there was a thread for Dreams come True(Don't know about the others), but it dissappeared. It's quite obvious then that people aren't interested.
Either they're too old, or people just don't like them. That's as simple as it is

Click to expand...

That's too bad to hear, but it's what I was thinking...Not that the new groups make bad songs, far from it, but well...Anyway, thank you for the info.

Dollporn said:

duff_o_josh: You can't say it's been made into a discussion about japanese gothic culture, because few of these bands actually have a gothic image.
There are lots of Oshare-kei bands(like Panic Channel, An Cafe, Kra), which can hardly be called gothic.

Click to expand...

yes Visual Kei does not equal "gothic".. "Visual" Kei is a very broad category. What's more, it's not a genre of music. The way a band dresses will not always determine how they sound.

These bands are called VISUAL kei for a reason. A lot of the focus is MEANT to be on their VISUAL APPEARANCE.

I'd love to discuss lyrics. I'm obsessed with song lyrics. But it's hard because many people here aren't familiar with the lyrics or the Japanese language. And I can't really discuss music because I don't know much about it technically. I just know what I like. And I like bands that aren't VK, too



... Miyavi and "normal" don't belong in the same sentence! just kidding..? XD

Wow. I put in an agressive argument and NO ONE'S hated me so far. Heehee. This just made my day!

can i just say something?

take the makeup and dress off you're typical Jrocker.... but them on your *cough* normal average teenage western guy... and what do you get?
exactly what i see everytime i walk by the clock tower in my town... (only, they'd have better style, but close enough)

you can't seriously say these things, when this style is EVERYwhere.... the only difference is, is that the nations from far east Asia tend to have very androgenous apperences, and so becasue they are wearing style-ish clothing and makeup, people presume they are female...
men in Japan have been dressing 'femininly' for over 200 hears, so you cannot POSSIBLY hold this against them....

YES, visual kei is pretty much limited to Japan.... but the aspects of it lie everywhere... Marilyn Mandson IS VK... and is recognised as it by the Japanese media....
look at what people think of him?
but... you look at any heavey metal band, of gothic metal, and you will see VERY similar things...
the fact is, girls, in general, have better clothing... there is SO much more you can do with it... so... as soon as they start wearing elaborate clothing, it bgins to look feminin...
i don't wanna get too heavily into this.... but..... for you're comment's about "nomal", i'm sorry, but i really feel you need a slap for that... because it's comments like that that have lead to me being beaten up on sveral ocations, just because i'm not "normal"

YES, there ARE bands who don;t do this... and i actually really adore the pants off every little thing.... i think their musics great, andthe mebers are juat as gorgeous as the next band...

the fact is... this bord is now heavily domminated by Jrock, and these bands are Jpop...
don;t know if you've noticed this lately... but all accross the world, i thin rock is getting paye a lot more attention, and pop is just... gone....
if you like, rock is the new pop (or, at least it's tied with the hip hop scene)

it's the same with any type of group discusion, people bring up the topics that they want to discuss, and that they know/hope will go down well...
mos of the people on this bord are under 20, and yes, we do talk about music, BUT, when the visual aspct of a band is such as it is here, we'd be stupid to ignore that...

i'd like to direct you to a thread here - is it all about the visual?
it talks about the differences between visual and music...

but, can i also say...
when someone introduces a new band... people tend to take a look, and if they like the music, they'll accept to likeing the band... BUT... if there's only the music that appeals to them... then there,s only the music to talk about, and i don't know how many of us here are musicians, but... talk where we can simply laugh and be girly and such with eachother, is much more appealing than a detainled discussion about music and such, right?
(however, i'd love to do that, but that's because... i am a musician :rlief

yeah, i guess what i'm saying is, the threads that are up top, are up top, because everyone can take part in them, and there's a lot more to discuss than just their music....

Dollporn said:

Wow. I put in an agressive argument and NO ONE'S hated me so far. Heehee. This just made my day!

Click to expand...

As far as your aggressive argument is constructive...;-)

Mamoru-kun said:

As far as your aggressive argument is constructive...;-)

Click to expand...

Yay! I've finally done it. It's pretty important to me.

furan: You're right.You've said a lot of correct things here. This forum is for fun, so we can be fan girlish and just plain boppers.
And the thing about rock being the new pop is sort of right. Maybe pop is dying. For nao anyway.