How long did it take you to reach an advanced level of Japanese?

Kraemder · 24 May 2014

I often wonder why I don't just quit and find something else to do. I've been at it for about 3 years now. I did manage to pass the N3 so I'm making progress although I've never been to japan.

Anyway, by advances I mean being able to understand news on the radio about almost anything and being able to read a fiction novel written for the average adult. Without using a dictionary.

These are things I was able to do in German after a few years of study but it's slower and harder in Japanese. I was listening to the news today on my iPhone and I think understood the story about some terrorists (a lot of stuff got blown up) and the weather report. The other news programs I just got bits and pieces. When it comes to reading stuff I can sometimes get lucky and understand enough words to get by but usually I really need a dictionary.

For some reason it seems like most people studying Japanese never really got far into an easier language so I don't think they appreciate how reading a lot can accelerate learning a language because in Japanese it doesn't help that much and you're better off watching TV. At least that's my experience although I'm struggling to learn the writing system.

Mike Cash · 24 May 2014

I read novels and nonfiction written for adults, without dictionaries. Building reading skills helps tremendously with building listening skills, as increased familiarity with kanji is a great help in figuring out words you've never heard before.

I started with reading four panel comics (hundreds of volumes of them), which I think are the best material in the world for an intermediate student who wants to build skills and start to get into really reading (and not just painfully decoding text with a dictionary).

The first real honest-to-goodness Japanese book I ever read all the way through was セキセイインコの飼い方増やし方 ("The Care and Breeding of Parakeets"). I read it because I had parakeets and wanted the information in the book and not for Japanese study. In other words, I didn't make a chore out of it. I've read stacks of Japanese books since then and it is always under the same conditions: no dictionary and I read them because the content interests me.

I'm trying to think back so I can answer your question about how long it took, but I can't pin it down. Probably somewhere between six and eight years after I first started learning Japanese, but within just two or three years from the time I started working in a 100% Japanese-only environment. If you've managed to stick with your studies despite never having been here and having no real pressing need for Japanese, you have my admiration, for what very little it's worth.

Mike Cash · 24 May 2014

By the way, I don't consider myself to be at an "advanced" level.

(Couldn't edit my post above for some reason).

mesolithic · 24 May 2014

I wouldn't say I'm advanced but living in Japan (and actively interacting with Japanese people) helped a lot.

I can listen understand maybe 80% of news on the radio. Still need a dictionary from time to time when reading something by Murakami, but mainly to figure out pronunciation since I understand the meaning of most kanji (yes, the unfair advantage given by being fluent in Chinese).

In all honesty, studying for JLPT was useful for the fundamentals but it got to a point where immersion was much more useful and efficient than additional classes (particularly for listening and speaking). I'm still really bad at speaking but my listening and reading/writing is sufficient for work.

I studied Japanese (3hrs x twice a week) for about a year before coming to Japan and have been in living Japan for almost 2 years. As mentioned earlier though, I am fluent in Chinese so that essentially means that kanji is not a big problem for me.

Kraise · 25 May 2014

Mike Cash said:
I read novels and nonfiction written for adults, without dictionaries. Building reading skills helps tremendously with building listening skills, as increased familiarity with kanji is a great help in figuring out words you've never heard before.

I started with reading four panel comics (hundreds of volumes of them), which I think are the best material in the world for an intermediate student who wants to build skills and start to get into really reading (and not just painfully decoding text with a dictionary).

The first real honest-to-goodness Japanese book I ever read all the way through was セキセイインコの飼い方増やし方 ("The Care and Breeding of Parakeets"). I read it because I had parakeets and wanted the information in the book and not for Japanese study. In other words, I didn't make a chore out of it. I've read stacks of Japanese books since then and it is always under the same conditions: no dictionary and I read them because the content interests me.

I'm trying to think back so I can answer your question about how long it took, but I can't pin it down. Probably somewhere between six and eight years after I first started learning Japanese, but within just two or three years from the time I started working in a 100% Japanese-only environment. If you've managed to stick with your studies despite never having been here and having no real pressing need for Japanese, you have my admiration, for what very little it's worth.

Do you mind sharing some of these "four panel comics" Mike?

I started japanese last year, in february. I'm still at N3 level though studying to try the N2 by december this year. While I can comprehend mid level texts and conversations to a certain degree, whenever things get too "casual" I cant think fast enough to process things in real time though, So I have to get back and read/listen more carefully.

Kraemder · 25 May 2014

Mike Cash said:
By the way, I don't consider myself to be at an "advanced" level.

(Couldn't edit my post above for some reason).

Thanks Mike. I have to wonder if 4 panel comics are any different than other manga? I think based on JLPT standards you would definitely be advanced and at the N1 level or still close to it if your grammar is lagging behind your vocab or something. Which by definition kind of makes you advanced =p. Of course when you compare yourself to a native speaker it can feel weird to say you're at an "advanced" level regarding their language when they're still quite a bit better probably. And might even be really bad at speaking it (I didn't mention anything about speaking ability in my question).

At 3 years, it sounds like I have another 3 years to go.. at least. hmm working in an all japanese environment. Does that mean using English while working Japan or were you using Japanese on the job?

Kraemder · 25 May 2014

mesolithic said:
I wouldn't say I'm advanced but living in Japan (and actively interacting with Japanese people) helped a lot.

I can listen understand maybe 80% of news on the radio. Still need a dictionary from time to time when reading something by Murakami, but mainly to figure out pronunciation since I understand the meaning of most kanji (yes, the unfair advantage given by being fluent in Chinese).

In all honesty, studying for JLPT was useful for the fundamentals but it got to a point where immersion was much more useful and efficient than additional classes (particularly for listening and speaking). I'm still really bad at speaking but my listening and reading/writing is sufficient for work.

I studied Japanese (3hrs x twice a week) for about a year before coming to Japan and have been in living Japan for almost 2 years. As mentioned earlier though, I am fluent in Chinese so that essentially means that kanji is not a big problem for me.

Yeah and I think there's a lot of words taken from Chinese too, not just the alphabet. But it sounds like you're going really fast. I'm not too bad at understanding a general meaning of most kanji thanks to reading Remembering the Kanji by Heisig but it's no substitute for being Chinese (or just being fluent in Chinese?). You're learning the language far faster than I am though so either you're more talented or the Chinese background makes your situation different.

Kraemder · 25 May 2014

Kraise said:
Do you mind sharing some of these "four panel comics" Mike?

I started japanese last year, in february. I'm still at N3 level though studying to try the N2 by december this year. While I can comprehend mid level texts and conversations to a certain degree, whenever things get too "casual" I cant think fast enough to process things in real time though, So I have to get back and read/listen more carefully.

You're really learning it fast. Although for what it's worth I'm a lot more comfortable in a casual setting with casual conversation than anything else. I'll be trying for the N2 this December as well. After one year I was just at an N5 level and at a year and a half I failed the N4 (not by much but still didn't pass). Then at 2.5 years I got a pass on the N3 (never did pass the N4).

I guess your join date is when you started studying? Any tips on how you're doing so well =). Or maybe you're a full time student (who actually studies?)

Grandpa Frank · 25 May 2014

Not easy for sure.

I lived off base with Japanese friends for my two years there who helped me to learn. I took a Correspondence course at a college level and bought probably 50 different books on Japanese. I worked as a bouncer in a Japanese bar part time where little English was used for about a year. I watched TV and listened to radio when ever I could. Kanji was my weak spot , hated to memorize them for some reason other than common everyday ones I needed to know. At the end of 2 years , I would say I was still only on the level of a 5 year old child. Understanding very fast conversation and learning the Kanji seemed impossible to me , even after 2 years.

Uncle Frank

Kraise · 25 May 2014

Kraemder said:
You're really learning it fast. Although for what it's worth I'm a lot more comfortable in a casual setting with casual conversation than anything else. I'll be trying for the N2 this December as well. After one year I was just at an N5 level and at a year and a half I failed the N4 (not by much but still didn't pass). Then at 2.5 years I got a pass on the N3 (never did pass the N4).

I guess your join date is when you started studying? Any tips on how you're doing so well =). Or maybe you're a full time student (who actually studies?)

I began in 2013 ,4, february. I still remember the day because thats when I applied for the classes at a local nihongo gakkou, they used Nihongo Daichi + Minna no Nihongo as the main textbooks, but only had classes at saturdays, it didnt take more than a few hours to get me excited to learn japanese, I have to say though, my girlfriend(At that time, now she is my fiancee') was born and raised in a japanese colony by the countryside, her parents are immigrants. I felt the urge to be able to communicate with them in their motherlanguage, also since I was about to graduate I thought I could maybe try something overseas someday. Since then, everyday since that day I study for about 2-4 hours a day, repeating the same schedule, 10 kanjis per day, 読解 and 語彙(I bought SoMatome books to help me with the required JLPT knowledge), when I graduated in december I started doing also some listening exercises by transcripting videos or cartoons and doramas, I basically listen to everything carefully enough to write japanese subtitles to japanese videos.

Kraemder · 25 May 2014

That's an interesting idea - transcribing Japanese TV. I have my iphone handy and if I hear a word I want to know I'll look it up and save it for studying.. I don't go all out and transcribe it. I can see how it would help but I don't think I have the energy for that. At least not every day. I might try it a little though.

A Japanese colony? I'm confused.. like a former Japanese colony? I don't think Japan has had a colony per se since WW2 although I might be wrong?

Kraise · 25 May 2014

Kraemder said:
That's an interesting idea - transcribing Japanese TV. I have my iphone handy and if I hear a word I want to know I'll look it up and save it for studying.. I don't go all out and transcribe it. I can see how it would help but I don't think I have the energy for that. At least not every day. I might try it a little though.

A Japanese colony? I'm confused.. like a former Japanese colony? I don't think Japan has had a colony per se since WW2 although I might be wrong?

Sorry since I'm not a native english speaker I often try to bring words from portuguese to english. This meaning of Colony here, is not the same as [Japan was a Chinese Colony], but, some time ago here in my country, immigration was largely promoted by the government since the beginning of the first war, to the Sixties(When her parents came), So germans, italians and japanese came in mass and the government gave them some lands to live in and work as (crop) farmers/peasants. We use the term [colonia/colony] then, to define this phenomenon. I'm not sure if there is a proper word in the english language for it though.

Kraemder · 25 May 2014

I don't know either. It's really close to the meaning for colony that I'm familiar with though. But I would say Japanese colony to indicate land that Japan acquired for purposes of Japanese citizens moving there to settle and build communities etc. Anyway, I get that you're motivated to learn and I wish I had a Japanese girlfriend XD. Would be nice. Or just someone who liked studying Japanese or something.

lanthas · 25 May 2014

Kraise said:
We use the term [colonia/colony] then, to define this phenomenon. I'm not sure if there is a proper word in the english language for it though.

Ethnic enclave, apparently.

How long did it take you to reach an advanced level of Japanese?

Kraemder

後輩

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Mike Cash

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

mesolithic

後輩

Kraise

先輩

Kraemder

後輩

Kraemder

後輩

Kraemder

後輩

Grandpa Frank

Sempai

Kraise

先輩

Kraemder

後輩

Kraise

先輩

Kraemder

後輩

lanthas

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