hikikomori

[buruburu]

Hi,

Hikikomori is a social phenomenon that strikes Japanese youth. Constrained by the pressure of the educational system, or victims of their differences (physical appearence, or nationality), they become marginalised and get isolated.
This topic is particularly sensitive, cause Hikikori's impact can lead to crimes or suicides. So, to your mind, what are the factor that trigger this "social pathology".

 

[Iron Chef]

Greetings and welcome. I have done a little research on this in the past so i'll share with you some preliminary figures. Hikikomori is a relatively new phenomenon by all accounts and some psychiatrists (notably Tamaki Saito) estimate that social withdrawal may affect up to 1-1.2 million young people in Japan. In 2001 the Japanese government made the results of a preliminary national investigation into this phenomenon public. Over the period of one year, 6,151 cases of hikikomori (defined as withdrawal from society for six months or more) were registered at 697 public health centers. To give you an idea of the severity of these cases, almost a third of the number reported had been withdrawn for three years or more.

One man even described his condition as "...being rotten to the core... I was sick of of everything and my own way of seeing things and society's way did not seem to fit. I had no option but to withdraw..." How did this happen and what can be done? Who knows... yet a recent government survey on job satisfaction shows more people now than ever before wish to change jobs. When coupled with disenfranchised youth, high suicide rates, frustrations of recent graduates entering the workforce, a stagnant education system, etc. you get the picture...

 

[Davey]

More information in this thread http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16629&highlight=Hikikomori

 

[Hyokano]

I really hate ニート (spelled NEET in romaji; abbreviation for "Not in Employment, Education or Training"). For what ever reason they stay home all day without even attempting to get a job and live under their parent's roof even in their late twenties, they still need to get out of there and declare their independence. It's just sickening. I especially blame the parents who let it happen. It's like the parents who don't do anything about the obesity of their children in the United States. What the hell are parents thinking!?

 

[gaijinalways]

Hikikomori happens in other countries too, but I think it's more prelevant in Japan, and part of it is doting parents who support their children no matter how lazy they get. The 'shoganai attitude' often gets in the way of really trying to solve some problems, especially concerning various socal problems.

Just think, until recently the average Japanese didn't admit to having depression as it was considered a shameful subject (something that is a normal problem and condition around the world)!

 

[creepingsnow7]

This topic is particularly sensitive, cause Hikikori's impact can lead to crimes or suicides. So, to your mind, what are the factor that trigger this "social pathology".

hikkikomori is a broad term for people who lock themselves away from society because they disagree with it/themself for some reason

you cant say theyre violent, and its not only in japan, its all over the world.
if you ever heard of a book called "the experience of nothingness" it completely describes the feelings the hikkikomori have, it is not a disease or disorder, it is a mental change some people go through, awakening, but they dont know how to live after the change, so they stay where they are comfortable.

no one is committing suicide or necessarily killing people.

 

[kireikoori]

Honestly, this is weird. People say Japanese discriminate against "halfs" or like half Chinese, half Korean, half Australian and so forth living in Japan, are mistreated for being such.

And people say that those with hikikomori are the result of mistreatment. So then wouldn't native born but part foreign Japanese then be largely hikikomori? Seems like I've never heard of a "half" hikikomori.

It came to mind because OP said "physical appearance, or nationality".

I think it has more to do with economics than anything. Japan is a rough society when it comes to schooling and work both. But I also think it's part of the parent's fault for being just a little bit too passive in parenting. While it's of course bad to be over controlling and over demanding and you must be careful, it's also not a good thing to be such a pushover that you let your out of k-12 child live with you when he's not even working or going to school. And especially one that will not leave the house.

I basically know people in my town who do the whole NEET thing. And I don't look well upon it at all. While I was working at my local wal*mart to help pay for college I heard about a kid who got out of high school but was still living with his mom, not going to work or going to college, just sitting in play video games all day. I mean, I like video games too, but that's just sad.

NEET and acute social withdrawal definitely happen in my country. As for why? I dunno, I had just assumed the guy was just without ambition and too obsessed with video games.

 

[Kirakira1232]

If you ever get a chance read "Shutting out the Sun: How Japan lost a generation" by Michael Zielenziger. It's an outsiders perspective on the whole phenomenon and the way it is treated in Japan.

Youth are disenchanted in Japan to say the least. A lot of the hikikomori that he interviews in his book first start withdrawing from society when they are bullied at school. One of the hikikomori interviewed was bullied simply because he was too good at Baseball and the kids began to ignore him because he "stuck out." In a lot of hikikomori cases they were bullied in school and for the most part teachers and parents did nothing. They instead ask the child what he did to become bullied in the first place.

He also noticed that a lot of hikikomori suffered from a lack of love from either of their parents. The father who works from 5 in the morning till 11 or 12 at night and the mother who feels neglected and ignores their child's plea for attention.

He found a lot of Hikikomori were being suffocated by Japanese society and that the pressure from school to perform just exhausted them so much that they gave up. With youth unemployment skyrocketing there was no guarantee that they would secure a job if they went ahead and put all that work in to get through university. Even if they did they knew they would be unhappy so they choose to shut themselves away.

There really hasnt been enough research into the phenomena internationally so all thats been done is written in Japanese...I would like to do research in this someday when I finish my Japanese Studies.

 

[Haruspex]

Understanding a truth is the first step, shame they cannot bear it.
In this life, you either live with closed eyes, or carry its burden. Whichever suits you.

 

[tokapi]

If you ever get a chance read "Shutting out the Sun: How Japan lost a generation" by Michael Zielenziger. It's an outsiders perspective on the whole phenomenon and the way it is treated in Japan.

Good read,the book has many objective angles to the problem.

 

[Goldiegirl]

A neighbor here stopped by with his son, who you could say is/has hikikomori. He was quiet and withdrawn. He is a handsome 18 year old young man. His parents are divorced alla Japanese style and he lives with his father and his younger brother lives with his mother and there is no visitation between the two families now. Don't you think that his trouble is caused by his parents troubles? Plus he was allowed to quit school because he wasn't happy there. Um, who is happy in school? It's a requirement that wasn't set up for fun. I can't see how this young man is going to live the rest of his life with no education, no ambition. His father works two jobs to support him and his motorcycles. Motorcycles are the only things that bring him happiness. Seems to me he just needs to get off his duff, go to school, and his father needs to stop providing everything, like cell phone, computer, motorcycles! There is depression that is a chemical imbalance and there is depression that is situational. Change your situation, change your life, if there is still problems then there is more going on. But to just say he's depressed and give him everything is helping no one. Just my two cents....

 

[ykurosawa]

Hi... I was a Hikikomori for 3 years. I thank my mom for helping me get over it. As for the cause, I was bullied for 2 years in school everyday for reasons I am not aware of. Maybe they just felt like it? I had a happy childhood until my first year of middle school(I changed schools). I was usually alone and they spread rumors about me. They harassed me everyday. It was very hard to cope with. I was all alone. Nobody helped me. It continued for 2 years and I couldn't do anything but be silent about it. They'd push me around, hit me, say words that make me feel shameful about myself. I didn't know what else to do. Even in public like the mall, people would say stuff and point at me. Reality or just my paranoid imagination caused by the damage they made, I don't know. In the beginning of my last year in middle school, I just snapped. For three years I couldn't go out. I was so afraid of people hurting me. On the instances that I HAD to go out like death anniversaries of my grandparents, I'd have anxiety attacks. The thought of being around people was frightening. The psychiatrist diagnosed me of having post traumatic stress disorder, depression and anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder and agoraphobia. Mom refused to give me the medications the doctor prescribed as she reasoned that it can have bad effects in the long run and that I'd be reliant to them. After awhile my mom enrolled me in an online home study school which I have to admit, is alot better than regular school since it is required that you master all subjects before passing which in turn made me pass the university exam with a high mark! Thanks to her, I continued my studies. I am glad she supported me and helped me. Now, I finally recovered from most of those except agoraphobia which isn't as serious as it was before. I still feel uneasy in public.
Why do they like to see someone slightly different from them suffer?
One thing I discovered when I am alone with one of them, they couldn't bully me. They couldn't even keep eye contact. But if they are in groups of 2 or more, they do whatever they want. They're such cowards.

I am still wondering though, why are people cruel?

 

[EdZiomek]

Excellent thread....

This is an amazing website, and providing incredibly good dialogue I was not aware of.

Hikikomori is what you call the withdrawing...I think in America we call it "detachment".

Goldie has the best solution..."There is depression that is a chemical imbalance and there is depression that is situational. Change your situation, change your life, if there is still problems then there is more going on. But to just say he's depressed and give him everything is helping no one. Just my two cents.... "

I tell my sons, life has one rule, and one rule only.

"Happiness".

Like a Jewish Rabbi told thousands who would listen... "You have one option in life...'Choose to live, or choose to die'."

How many people we know of are living death? Trapped in a bad marriage, trapped in credit card bills, trapped in the meaness of others.

Well, untrap yourself if you can, and Ykurosawa, I ask you with your wonderful story... can you help just one other person who is not as liberated as you are?

In my "detachment" of my earlier days, I allowed others to control my depressions... other persons who called themselves my own relatives, or my own "friends", who would stick verbal needles in me, just to remind me of their own "dominance" over me.

There is an additional phenomena not mentioned here, that I can tell, and I call it the parallel universe of "Givers" and "Takers", where treating people badly is "being good", "being strong".

It is the persons we call "close" who aren't really friends at all, who aren't really loving to us at all, who make sure we REMAIN in the "unwell" mental state.

Every opportunity they have, with a short conversation, or a short exchange, they speak "down" to us. Their attitude has always been... "Look, I treat you badly, I insult you, I ridicule you, why don't you love me?"

Now, when they come close, I wave them off, not so much as a 5 second conversation, and I can see, it puzzles them... as in ... "Why can't I dominate this person anymore, what did I do good to him to deserve this disrespect?"

Also, if I witness total strangers, one insulting the other needlessly, I chirp in with my two cents... blow up the insult balloon, and teach the victim to fight back.

Ykurosawa... great insights, great messages here... turn around and help someone else with this problem!

 

[Echigo]

If you ever get a chance read "Shutting out the Sun: How Japan lost a generation" by Michael Zielenziger. It's an outsiders perspective on the whole phenomenon and the way it is treated in Japan.
Youth are disenchanted in Japan to say the least. A lot of the hikikomori that he interviews in his book first start withdrawing from society when they are bullied at school. One of the hikikomori interviewed was bullied simply because he was too good at Baseball and the kids began to ignore him because he "stuck out." In a lot of hikikomori cases they were bullied in school and for the most part teachers and parents did nothing. They instead ask the child what he did to become bullied in the first place.
He also noticed that a lot of hikikomori suffered from a lack of love from either of their parents. The father who works from 5 in the morning till 11 or 12 at night and the mother who feels neglected and ignores their child's plea for attention.
He found a lot of Hikikomori were being suffocated by Japanese society and that the pressure from school to perform just exhausted them so much that they gave up. With youth unemployment skyrocketing there was no guarantee that they would secure a job if they went ahead and put all that work in to get through university. Even if they did they knew they would be unhappy so they choose to shut themselves away.
There really hasnt been enough research into the phenomena internationally so all thats been done is written in Japanese...I would like to do research in this someday when I finish my Japanese Studies.

That book is excellent and I would recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about this phenomenon. Shame that those that are bullied are often blamed for their own torment though.

 

[miss_maya]

"One Room Hikikomori Disco"

...His father works two jobs to support him and his motorcycles. Motorcycles are the only things that bring him happiness...

He should work as a mechanic! was the first thing i thought, but then i remembered that in every job you must have social contact, even if you are just a quiet assistant in the back ground. It must be really hard for somebody with a social anxiety. People who dont understand hikikomori need to learn to accept that it really is difficult for them to even look someone in the eye, thats how bad it can get. How can such a person work.

I really hate ﾆ男ﾂーﾆ暖 (spelled NEET in romaji; abbreviation for "Not in Employment, Education or Training"). For what ever reason they stay home all day without even attempting to get a job and live under their parent's roof even in their late twenties, they still need to get out of there and declare their independence. It's just sickening...

"For whatever reason" is exactly the thing that is the problem. Yes it is sickening, sickening to see the word "hate" in a hikikomori thread. Infact a lot of forums i have visited about this topic seem to have someone posting a rather nasty comment. Yours is not so bad, you are entitled to an opinion.

Hi... I was a Hikikomori for 3 years. I thank my mom for helping me get over it. [...] Thanks to her, I continued my studies. I am glad she supported me and helped me. Now, I finally recovered from most of those except agoraphobia which isn't as serious as it was before. I still feel uneasy in public.
Why do they like to see someone slightly different from them suffer?
One thing I discovered when I am alone with one of them, they couldn't bully me. They couldn't even keep eye contact. But if they are in groups of 2 or more, they do whatever they want. They're such cowards.
I am still wondering though, why are people cruel?

Its very nice to hear your recovery story. Please keep persisting.

I have learned that people are cruel because they have a mental problem of their own, like anger, jealousy, or they just need to vent something. A lot of the time they are unaware that they are passing a cruelty they experienced in their own life onto another person. The chain continues, it seems to be human nature. But to overcome it, a person can break the chain by learning to understand what is actually happening. Learn to "not accept the meal that was placed in front of you" (by the angry person) as Buddha did when he was in bullying situation.

I am also uneasy in public, i don't work or study currently (even though i used to, i'm back with my parents again). I want help, and have been seeing 2 therapists to hopefully get back into society somehow. I want to work, but I'm really afraid at the same time. I hope they can help.
People in the west are lucky because there is a lot of help they can get for this kind of thing and its not considered shameful. Picking the right therapist might take a few tries. Please thank your mum for not allowing them to put you on the drugs, i'm against it too.

 

[akaitsume1]

>miss maya

I'm really glad that I read your post. When I first learned about hikikomori and NEETs, I really didn't understand. I remember writing a tirade about how the parents should be more strict on their NEET children (when it gets to the hikikomori stage, I think it's way beyond that sort of quick-fix), and if it is the cause of laziness and not depression, I still think that they should. I've seen a few cases of kids living off their parents because they had no need and no desire to work, though they would hang out with friends a lot. However, I'd seriously generalized the situation in my head, and reading your post made me think about it more.

Rather than NEETs and hikikomori, Freeters are the ones that tend to get on my nerves. If they don't want to get full-time jobs with the heavy restrictions that often apply, I understand, but at the same time, they should expect the part-timer salaries and benefits they signed up for. When I saw freeters crusading for higher wages (comparable to full-timers) and benefits, that really annoyed me. If they wanted those things, in my opinion, they should suck it up and apply for real jobs.

Of course, in this global economy, the real jobs might not be possible...

 

[ItalianDude]

This Hikikomori issue is really interesting.

I'm very sorry for all those japanese teenager who can't stand against all that statal post '60s hype bullshit that consolidates in Ijime (because a wolf-eat-wolf structure is more productive than a liberal one), conformism ("the bad nail must be stroke with the hammer"), etc.
Maybe, being an european I can't understand very well this phenomenon; however I see that many factors involved are really similar (but way bigger) than what we have here in Europe.

I personally bullied some guys when I was at high school, and at the moment I didn't understood what I was doing. Only in my mid twenties I realized that all I did was because I was totally scared to be bullied so I decided to become a jerk and frequent other jerks; it worked in those years but then I had to fight with a big sense of guilt later. I also had hard work in liberating me from conformism.

The system need school to make students learn just one thing: the people (students) are inferior and must obey the system (professors). And what do the sysytem/school does to control the people/students? They divide them. Divide et impera. They make them compete, they force them to be assholes to each other. Only in this way they can have more production. It's the same stuff you can see in some armies.
It's like Sparta, but more subtle and terrible because if you were weak in sparta you were trown down a hill when you were young.. in this society you are trown down every day if you are weak.
And if you are strong, neither a big deal.

I am really sorry for you hikikomoris, you are the first victims of this bastard society. I hope you someway manage to gain something from this condition; I think that a bedroom, when you live in it, acquire a post-existential aspect where you can somewhat transcende time and space, reaching spirituality without a religion - I have this feeling. If I'm wrong, I hope at least you're having fun with some good videogames (or maybe programming some); enjoy your time, don't care about all those stupid aggression tv direct to you; it's their fault if the system sucks.

Just my 2 cents.

(PS: I would love to talk with a real hikikomori and ask some questions, if you are then feel free to contact me)