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High school students skirts

Ok. I think both sides have plenty explainations to offer but at the end of the day,to each his own. We are all made to think differently.
 
Gazerocks said:
Ok. I think both sides have plenty explainations to offer but at the end of the day,to each his own. We are all made to think differently.
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If you are "made" to think differently, you should probably re-evaluate why you think that way. Upbringing is not an excuse for poor beliefs.
 
I can listen to your arguments and think them through. However, I have my own set of thinkings too. I don't see a need why I have to agree with you. And, my beliefs are not poor, they just differ from yours. Moreover, I have others who agree with me. So, please do not insult my upbringing. You're upseting my parents and teachers. This thread is to comment on High School Student Skirts, not on people's responses to this topic. So, please stick to topic.
 
Nall-ohki said:
Rhetorical question:

Why do people find the human body (especially those instilled with youth and beauty) offensive?

It's seriously beyond me.
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Ok... Nall-ohki....

Let me pose a question to you. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to have skirts so short that when a women is standing up straight all you have to do is look at her on the same level and be able to see undrewear? Or is this a question of taste ,with the classic "Eye of the beholder" ?

You say "Why do people find the human body (especially those instilled with youth and beauty) offensive?
 On that line of thinking I say let them go to school in bikini's or better yet their underwear...
 
Gazerocks said:
I can listen to your arguments and think them through. However, I have my own set of thinkings too. I don't see a need why I have to agree with you.
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You don't have to agree with me. You're perfectly welcome to have your own opinion on the matter. My point is that saying "I grew up this way" is not an argument for your side.

Gazerocks said:
And, my beliefs are not poor, they just differ from yours. Moreover, I have others who agree with me. So, please do not insult my upbringing.
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I apologize for insinuating your beliefs were poor.

Having others that agree with you ALSO is not an argument for your side. Christianity have many people who agree with them. So does Islam, so does Buddhism, so does Atheism. Are they all right? Not possible.


This is my question. Why do you care so much? Because something is uncomfortable to you, should it be the onus of everyone else to accommodate?

FrustratedDave said:
You say "Why do people find the human body (especially those instilled with youth and beauty) offensive?
 On that line of thinking I say let them go to school in bikini's or better yet their underwear...
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I might think they're silly, I might think they're disgusting, but in the end, it's not for me to say whether or not they should do it. The person who draws the line should be that person, and possibly their parents. We don't really have any say in what other people do, especially with something as personal as clothing, and very especially when our only standing in the matter is "I don't like it."
 
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My meaning is; let the girls choose how short they want their skirt to be. Personally I dont care about what others wear, and how they wear it.
 
Nall-ohki said:
This is my question. Why do you care so much? Because something is uncomfortable to you, should it be the onus of everyone else to accommodate?
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I don't, but you you have to expect to hear peoples opinions. You are presuming that some of us are useing "offensive" in the means of having girls legs showing, but to find something offensive can also mean in this case the blatent disregard of rules set out, hense my question on where do you draw the line?
Thats right it is not for you to say, and in regards to school uniforms it is not up to the individual either, remember that. Again going along your line of thinking, why even have rules at all, let the kids do what ever they want, don't worry about disaplining them for anything, or is that going to far? Again ,I say where would YOU draw the line. You have to remember the original poster did not start a thread about young girls wearing short skirts in general, but specificaly stated girls in uniforms. So the original poster has every right to find this offensive, b/c rules are there for a reason and you are confusing what someone can and can't do with what someone should and shouldn't do.
 
Is the fact that women are sexual beings offensive? If so, god was really having a fun day there.
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That may be true but since this is school uniforms we're talking about that comment is really irrelevant. School is hardly the place to be getting sexual, no matter who you are. You're there to learn not get a date.

My meaning is; let the girls choose how short they want their skirt to be. Personally I dont care about what others wear, and how they wear it.
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But what ever happened to leaving something to the imagination? Showing some skin is fine but some things should really be saved for the bedroom.
I don't get why some girls want to throw everything out there all at once, I don't mean to sound old fashioned but give the guys something to guess about.

No point in wondering what color underwear she's wearing when you can just walk over and check. Where's the fun in that?
 
MadamePapillon said:
That may be true but since this is school uniforms we're talking about that comment is really irrelevant. School is hardly the place to be getting sexual, no matter who you are. You're there to learn not get a date.
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I highly disagree: schools about a lot more than just learning. Not only that, but it's not like people have a lot of choice in going to school: they have to go to school by law. Children's entire peer group is in school. To say that school isn't the place to get a date is unreasonable and unrealistic.


I respect your opinion on the subject, and in fact prefer this sort of wisdom on the subject. I prefer demure women, and in fact would not be unhappy to see skirts be as long as they're intended.

But... I would also like to leave room for those who do not agree with you. People are people; kids are kids, and they will do what they do.
 
Wow... Thanks for making my point for me. That is right ,you don't have a lot of choice when it comes to school, hense the conforming to the rules of that particular school. Of corse schools are a lot more than learning(By books I think you mean), but they not places to be thought of to pick up guys/girls and with that is mind see who can have to shortest skirt to attract a guys attention. Kids have plenty of time out side of school to wear what they what and no body is complaining there.

Don't worry I don't need you to reply to me as I can see where you are trying to take this.

But... I would also like to leave room for those who do not agree with you. People are people; kids are kids, and they will do what they do.
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And this line, what cop out if I ever heard one...
 
I live in Hokkaido. I can't really say I've seen enough of the rest of the country to compare skirts, but I can tell you that the high school where I used to work had plenty of girls wearing the shortened skirts. I wouldn't call them "miniskirts", but they were obviously shorter than the original design.

My wife is Japanese, and she said she did the same thing. Reason? It looks "cute". Yup, that's the word. Does it lose something in translation? I don't know. But, they do it to look cute.

And, yes, they do it all winter, too. Leads to a higher incidence of bladder infections, I've heard, but that's just rumor.

Girls also used to wear the brightly colored bras, which under a thin white blouse would be quite visible. Why did they do that? Fashion and cuteness.

Now, taking all that into account, would you care to explain why such girls would wear the short skirts, yet hide their butts as they marched up stairs?

On a related (or unrelated if you prefer) note, are you aware that after gym class, boys and girls often change clothes in the same homeroom...? My wife clearly proves this can be done without exposing yourself, but it still makes one wonder, cuteness aside.
 
I respect your opinion on the subject, and in fact prefer this sort of wisdom on the subject. I prefer demure women, and in fact would not be unhappy to see skirts be as long as they're intended.
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Than what was the point of all the debating you've been doing in favor of the high school mini skirt?
You argue on and on about how it's A-OK for young high school girls to be baring all in the class room and then you come out with that statement. You basically just nullified everything you've previously said, you realize that right?
 

Actually, it doesn't. It just emphases that personal opinions are not inline with the way I believe things like this should be treated.

There is an expression in America: "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it.", which pretty much sums up my argument on the subject.

FrustratedDave said:
Don't worry I don't need you to reply to me as I can see where you are trying to take this.
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Sorry for not responding to you before, I'm perfectly willing to respond to you, but I only have so much time to type.


Really? I think my message has been pretty close to "let kids be kids". My primary reason for arguing this point is that I feel that modern society and adults in general intrude far too much into the lives of kids. Kids aren't allowed to learn without being lectured to, aren't allowed to think without being told what to think.

Granted, it is the role of the community to bring up children correctly and keep them in check, but too much interference quickly becomes oppression, and children will rebel even further (it's in human nature).

Kids should be let to be kids, and that includes flirting with sexuality. Let the kids alone.
 

Wow, I wasn't even going to respond but after reading that statement I have to wonder, do you have any close personal contact with kids at all? The sheer ignorance of that statement actually floored me for a second.

What exactly do you mean by 'flirt with sexuality'? Left to their own devices I'd say about 80% of those kids will make the wrong desicions regarding sex and relationships. Trust me, I've see this in action time and time again and it almost never ends good.

Take a good long look at american high schools and you'll see exactly where your attitude leads. Kids are, for the most part, idiots. You leave them on their own with raging hormones and skimpy school girl skirts and you don't have to be a genius to figure out that's asking for trouble.

Oh, and just as a side note. I think the skimpy over sexed school girl is also a perv magnet. I think most parents would rather their daughters NOT be followed home by a 40 yr old man in an unmarked white van....but maybe that's just me.
 
MadamePapillon said:
Wow, I wasn't even going to respond but after reading that statement I have to wonder, do you have any close personal contact with kids at all? The sheer ignorance of that statement actually floored me for a second.
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Oldest of seven kids. Youngest sibling is 13 now. Worked with high school kids through camp programs. Work peripherally in education (no, not direct contact).

Forgive me for a moment if I disbelieve your claim of "ignorance" on my part without so much as a shred of proof.


Oh right, because you hear about all about the decisions regarding sex that turns out okay, right? I'm sure you have some definitive statistics.

What? You don't? Okay, I guess I'll just rely on your anecdotal evidence based on nothing but your opinion. That sounds like a good idea. Yeah.


Of course it is. Teenagers ALWAYS ask for trouble. Guess what? They get through it. Kids have raging hormones: check. Kids do make poor decisions: check. Try as you might, you cannot teach someone not to make mistakes: check.

Skirts aren't the cause of kids' sexual attraction to each other. They are an expression, and a reasonably safe one at that. Treating the symptoms does nothing more than make adults feel comfortable; it does nothing for the kids.

MadamePapillon said:
Oh, and just as a side note. I think the skimpy over sexed school girl is also a perv magnet. I think most parents would rather their daughters NOT be followed home by a 40 yr old man in an unmarked white van....but maybe that's just me.
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Yeah, right. Those school girls are askin' for it. Cue the 40 year old man in an unmarked white van... 'cause you know, that ALWAYS HAPPENS.

Man, I was going down the street today, and I saw like 20 white vans parked outside this high school girls' house. You can't send a female 14-18 outside anymore showing any kind of skin without a million sex offenders following them home!

Think this is absurd? It is. So is your suggestion that 40 year old men stalking schoolgirls being COMMON in any way.
 
If there is a dress code or uniform, then it is a rule.
If the rule is broken, there is a conflict with authority.
That is bad for developing minds.

The uniform is not an expression of a teeny boppers sexuality.
The uniform is the projection of the schools image.

How you feel about going to a school with a strict dress code, and how you feel about sending your child to a school with a strict dress code... depends on your aspirations. Slobs and harlots don't lead the way yet, in this world.

Are girls in regulation length skirts sexually repressed...?
Maybe that conformity will encourage more sophisticated displays of sexuality?
Requires them to vocalise their feelings. "Yes let's root!", as opposed to "No stop it, what do you take me for?"

And finishing on a personal note, yeah high school girls in short skirts look hot, no doubt about it.
 
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I would have to chime in and say that the art, that the short (or miniskirt) uniform or dress is for the highschool aged girl here in Japan--in by far most cases--is usually little more than an artistic expression.

The only relationship it has with sexual expression from most of the girls themselves, is their sex--I mean you just don't see guys in short skirts. . . for some reason. (although you often see girls in pants or jeans) Of course there is an element of fashion, being in with the 'in' crowd, and being attractive for the guys that you'd like to attract.

Sexual fantisies which have arisen from this or other such dress styles (race queen, nurse, police, nun, etc. ) may have put, or is putting, a negative spin on what is otherwise--for the most part--innocent to the larger degree. That's kind of the way Japan works. . . and not only for this fashion either.

NOW...if I may, I would hope to discourage any higher degree of heat in the discussion or exchanges, than what has been observed so far. I wish not to discourage debate and exchange (and I enjoyed reading the exchanges) but just hope to avoid a setting in where personal attacks occur.

Thanks for the interesting debate.
 
This thread has rather lively exchanges. But, I think the high school skirt length can only be determined by the individual herself. It's a freedom of expression which others cannot do much about it. Short Skirts is still better thn wearing none. =x
 
My wife was high school student during the 70'ies. Back then it was cool to have long skirts, and the schools were struggling to get the girls to shorten their sirts according to the rules. Her impression is that the japanese girls became influenced by the short skirts worn by american girls at international schools in Tokyo. Later on the whole thing with ultra short skirts and loose socks became a truly japanese phenomenon. It is interesting that though the fashion changes very quickly in Japan, the highschool girl style remains largely unchanged for the last decades. It could be because the highschool identity is a transitional one like a "rites-des-passage". There are every year a new batch of girls who join the "short skirt club".for a three year membership.

Most of the girls in Shibuya who wear really short skirts are actually travelling there from the province. If you go to the basement of 109 and similar places you can observe them go through the transformation - rolling up the skrits and putting on the "war-paint" getting ready to conqer the city. Mostly the local Tokyo girls are not so interested in exposing themselves while walking up and down "Centergai".
 
Ultraman said:
If there is a dress code or uniform, then it is a rule.
If the rule is broken, there is a conflict with authority.
That is bad for developing minds.
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At my high school in Sapporo, there was a dress code. Most schools probably have one.

It was not very strongly enforced. I don't think the dress code is enforced very much here. Go figure.
 

Oh please, I went to an american high school for three years, one year five girls dropped out of school due to becoming pregnant and a number of guys dropped out to support their own unexpected bundles of joy. And this was in a town of only 5,000. You don't need statistics to see what's going on. Five may not seem like a lot but factor in all the girls who got abortions, of which I knew many, and you have a serious problem.


But you can help push them in the right direction. It may be a form of self expression but even you can't deny that short skirts are more likely to get the blood pumping than knee length skirts. No matter what any girl says, she knows that when she puts on a short skirt guys are going to look her way, anyone who says otherwise is lying, and badly at that.



At what point did I say they're asking for it?

And I don't know where you've been but you can hardly turn on the news or pick up a newspaper without a report of men following girls from school, or trying to pick them up or a young girl being sexually assaulted by an older man.

Either you're very uninformed or living in a fantasy world if you think that girls getting harrassed by older men is in any way UNCOMMON. It happens all the time and very often school girls are targeted. Regulating short skirts into the dress code isn't going to help any.
 

Aha! More anecdotal "evidence"! Good thing I lived in a town of 42,000 and didn't have a single girl drop out out of my class due to pregnancy. I guess there isn't a problem then!

  1. Teen pregnancy in the US decreased 25% between 1991 and 1999.
  2. Teen pregnancy in the US decreased 35% between 1991 and 2005.
  3. Teen pregnancy in 1999 was the lowest recorded since 1976.

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsprechd.htm
FindArticles.com | CBSi
http://www.teenpregnancy.org/resources/data/genlfact.asp



First of all, who said it wouldn't get their blood pumping, and second of all: WHO CARES?

You're not going to sheild adolescents from sex. Period. They are sexulally mature beings, and they are going to act like them. Preventing them from hiking their skirts is petty and completely without merit in any way. The only effect it has is on apperances, which only appeases adults who believe it is their business to protect children from themselves.


Agreed, girls getting harassed by older men is nothing new, and happens all the time. Men in white vans following girls around is quite the opposite. The same goes for villains with mustaches: it's a fiction created by society and serves to create a boogyman that represents what people are currently really afraid of.

To counter your anecdotal "evidence", I postulate that it's an obvious fact that you can pick up any newspaper or news and hear about these things happening: there are 301 million people in America, and 5 billion people in the world. This kind of thing is ALWAYS happening somewhere. Modern media covers a huge part of the world, and particularly likes reporting on things like murder and sexual assault: they're sensational and people love to read about it. It doesn't mean it's common for ordinary people.

Let me ask you this: how many times do you hear about an average person arrested for marijuana? It's a frighteningly large number, and yet you never hear a thing about it on the news. The actual number? 723,627 / year.

According to the US Beaurau of Justice, 140,990 completed rapes, 109,230 attempted rapes, and 152,680 completed and attempted sexual assaults were reported on average 1992-2000. All together, that's 402,900. Giving the benefit of the doubt and saying rapes are unreported, we'll say that number is closer to 500,000. I'd just like to point out that you've probably only heard about a very, very small number of these in comparison to the number of rapes you see on the news.

Generously given that the population of the United States in 1992 was 255 million (the first year of these statistics, today it's 301,139,947), that means that means that approximately 0.196% of the population is sexually assaulted or ATTEMPTED to be sexually assaulted each year. This means that you would have to know 510 women on average to know one woman that this happened to in the last year. This is hardly common.

Granted, this doesn't account for unreported crimes and such, but it definitely gives a perspective. Rape and other high-profile crimes are proportionally over-reported. It creates a false sense of what's actually dangerous in comparison to reality.

http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/intfile3-1.txt
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/rsarp00.htm
MARIJUANA ARREST & PRISON DATA
 
(body/car analogy)
When learning to drive a car, it is either funny or scary to watch. Exploring the full potential of the vehicle before mastering control is hazardous.
What are the stats on teen car wrecks?
 
http://www.sadd.org/stats.htm#sexualactivity




Nineteen (19) million new STD infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.
Centers for Disease Control
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Forty percent (40%) of older adolescents surveyed by the Kaiser Family Foundation incorrectly believe that the contraceptive ﾂ"pillﾂ" and ﾂ"shotﾂ" protect against STDs and HIV.
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
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Half of all new HIV infections occur among adolescents.
2005 ASHA State of the Nation
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In 2004, an estimated 7,761 young people were living with AIDS, a 42% increase since 2000, when 5,457 young people were living with AIDS.
Centers for Disease Control
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I guess you're right, who cares? These really ARE sexually mature beings and they sure are acting like it. Let's just let them do whatever they want because teenagers ALWAYS know best.
 
MadamePapillon said:
I guess you're right, who cares? These really ARE sexually mature beings and they sure are acting like it. Let's just let them do whatever they want because teenagers ALWAYS know best.
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Taken out of context. I never said I don't care about the problems that teenagers face or pose. I said who cares if they wear short skirts. I also said who cares if that gets their blood pumping.

Not saying kids aren't idiots - I believe they are, but so were all of us who made out of being teenagers. But I'm also saying that kids are smart, and they don't take kindly to being controlled.

Wearing short skirts is a SYMPTOM. By spending so much time looking at the symptoms of something you don't like (e.g. provocative clothing, teenage rebellion), you simultaneously misdirect your energy toward something that's really, in and of itself, pointless, and also harm your position by diluting your message in the eyes of those you're trying to help.

If you want things to change and improve for teenagers, there's really only two things you can do:

1. Improve their environment
- Things like making sure their home lives are good.
- Make sure they actually have something to live for. Babies come quickly to those who have nothing else.

2. Education
- Be sure they have proper sex education.
- Provide access to sexual protection.
- Let them make an informed choice.

Education and income are two indicators constantly correlated with lower birth rate and later marriage. Though correlation is not causation, it seems to work in general. People who have their life to look forward to generally take better care of themselves, and are less likely to engage in risky behaviors and procreate early.
 
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