Health insurance, and pension

[Davey]

Okay, now i read some little things about this, but not enough, so can anybody tell me the basics of this things, and maybe some links.

as i will be living in japan summer next year (i got married with my lovely japanese wife, no not for just stay in japan as some guys do.. i really love her) i need to get a health insurance (wich one is best, wich one is cheap, does this health insurance cover 100% dentist, docter, etc.. or just half of it..) and i need to know about the pension.. i heard that gaijin dont have to pay this for the first 2 years...

hope anybody can help me out with this!!! thanks you guys!!!!

(btw, just got back from japan yesterda, i feel BAD i miss my wife, and i dislike my own country a lot now... when i arived back in europe, i saw everybody have this kind of arogance over them, and rudness of not thinkgin about each other, it makes me sad...... but yeah i am married, and i had a great time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOEHOEEEEEEEEE dave baka gaijin soon i will be)

 

[Mike Cash]

If you go on one of the national health plans you pay a 30% copayment for your medical and dental treatment.

I've never heard of not having to pay into the pension for the first two years.

 

[GaijinPunch]

It's the "first year" you don't have to pay into certain taxes. Pension I believe, and perhaps tokubetsu kuminzei (ward tax). The taxes in question are always calculated on the previous years income. Since you won't have a previous years income, you won't have to pay them. Be warned though, that you will be responsible for these taxes AFTER you leave Japan. "Not paying for the first year" is a bit misleading. You pay, it's just always skewed a year. Still not sure what happens when someone dies.

 

[Mike Cash]

I believe there is a minimum premium for those with no previous year's income. The point is, though, that your premium jumps considerably in the second year since your income goes from zero to (hopefully) a living wage. I believe pension comes out right from the start. The best source, of course, for this info is for Mrs. Dutch Baka to go down to her local city/ward office and ask the nice people there. They have petty bureaucrats who do this for a living, when not busy sipping tea as a hobby.

 

[mad pierrot]

I believe pension comes out right from the start. The best source, of course, for this info is for Mrs. Dutch Baka to go down to her local city/ward office and ask the nice people there.

I second that. I just moved and changed jobs, been going to the city hall almost every day for the last 3 days, they've been REALLY helpful. Perhaps others know more about this, but as far as i can tell, you are REQUIRED to sign up for national health insurance in Japan if your not covered by your employer.

Also, do a web search, your local city hall might have a web page. I know Osaka's naniwa-ku does, and it explains everything in Japanese, English, Korean, etc.

 

[GaijinPunch]

You need to do a LOT of research on the insurance thing. I'm probably not a good person to ask, but technically, yes, you have to be covered... either by your company, or by the national health insurance. IF your employer won't offer it, I highly suggest getting an international carrier to cover you if you think your going to be somewhat successful. National health insurance premiums are more of a tax -- not a fixed rate. If you're making 5 million yen a year, it's not so bad. If you jump up to 10, it is a nightmare. You could be paying 40,000+ yen a month for the exact same coverage that cost you 20,000 the year before. You cannot get off of national insurance so easily once you start.

The downside is is that you will need despensible cash. Most international carriers will reimburse you later unless it's a ridiculous cost. Then again, I'm not 100% sure that having only an international carrier cover you is legit.

 

[khammo01]

I second that. I just moved and changed jobs, been going to the city hall almost every day for the last 3 days, they've been REALLY helpful. Perhaps others know more about this, but as far as i can tell, you are REQUIRED to sign up for national health insurance in Japan if your not covered by your employer.

Also, do a web search, your local city hall might have a web page. I know Osaka's naniwa-ku does, and it explains everything in Japanese, English, Korean, etc.

窶啻窶塲停?壺?昶?塒??堋鞘?壺?｢窶壺?｡窶塒 you might be able to skirt the payments for a while, membership in either the national health insurance program or your employee-provided health plan is indeed mandatory. The premiums are not very high for the government program, but it sucks to pay them when you are out of work.

One caveat - If you are without income, you should be able to be claimed as a dependent of a wage earner in the household. If so, they should be able to claim you as a dependent and you could fall under the health insurance plan of that person's company.

The only situation where you'd be working and under the national health system is if you are working part time or at another job which does not provide benefits. Otherwise, you should be taken care of as a dependent, or independently enrolled in the national health system.

This is what I remember from an interesting discussion with my wife's family a few years ago when her cousin was living at home but was making too much side income to be claimed as a dependent. He avoided paying the premiums, but was getting collection notices in the post. A lot of Japanese ignore them. The collections will catch up with you eventually however.

 

[mr.sumo.snr]

I know nothing other than the national health insurance program, though for my first two years in Japan I was on private, UK purchased, health insurance, which thankfully never had to be put to use. Of course when I did join the program I had to 'buy back' the previous two years of premiums - that was expensive!

Though I never hear about cases of refusal of treatment these days I still wouldn't like to be in any health care situation, be it a suspected case of food poisoning (3 times), kidney stones (3 times), serious motorbike accident (once), dental treatment (dozens of times) AND NOT be able to whip out the health insurance card: "That'll do nicely..."

As for the pension plan: if it's compulsory then someone forgot to tell me, my wife, the city hall and my accountant for the last eight years. That's how long I've been self-employed so I'm pretty confident that during that time any error would have been pointed out. Your money is far better off somewhere off-shore.

 

[khammo01]

Because you are liable for 'back payments' for the national health care system when you join up, the value of an international health care plan is dubious if you intend to remain in the country on a long term basis. (In other words - you ARE covered in the Japan health care system whether or not you've paid premiums - you just haven't opted in yet. That's the idea. Everyone is supposedly covered whether they know it or not. ) (at least 'gaikokujin torokusho ' card holders)

The pension is mandatory for salaried employees and the self employed. Either you are in the "kousei nenkin" (for salaried employees) or "kokumin nenkin" (For self employed). The premiums are based on your income for kousei nenkin, and for self employeed are fixed at around 18000 yen per month (I don't remember the exact). This is payment into a pension system, so if you have no income, you don't have to pay. Of course your disbursement when you retire depends on a formula which takes into consideration how much you paid into the system.

Oh one other thing - the premiums you pay into kousei nenkin are matched by your employer. You pay half, they pay half. While the benefits suck, it's basically free money when you retire. For kokumin nenkin, you pay 100%, nobody matches anything. And since the premiums are fixed, if you make more than about 2million yen per year, you better be putting away some savings somewhere else or you're in for a surprise when your retirement check comes to only 20,000 yen per month.

 

[Mike Cash]

It isn't even a matter of not having opted in yet. You can't not be in it. You're in it, so to speak, whether you have gone down and registered for it yet or not. That's how the back premiums come in.

 

[duff_o_josh]

i used mine before i payed for it, then when i got my bill for the month i didnt have to pay for the previous month when i used it.

 

[GaijinPunch]

The premiums are not very high for the government program,

They are a percentage of income though, not a fixed rate. They can indeed be very high if you have a good salary. This is one reason it's better to take benefits (company housing, car, etc.) rather than a raise in income. My rates in the states are cheaper, and the coverage is much better for doctors visits and emergency work (90%, compared to Japan's 70%). Doesn't cover prescriptions though, but even so, comes out to the same cost as Japan's prescription cost with insurance.

Oh one other thing - the premiums you pay into kousei nenkin are matched by your employer. You pay half, they pay half.

Tokubetsu Kuminzei is the same, I believe. I left Japan b/c my company moved to the states. Since my company ceased to exist, I was responsible for the entire amount of my last several months worth of tax. It was quite a donger too. On the flip side, it [supposedly] can be used as a tax credit [not tax deduction] so it will in theory, even out against my US income for the year. I'm curious though, if you moved from Japan on January 1st, and didn't make any US income, how would it work? In the states, the tax credit is only valid against foreign earned income, if I understand correctly.

 

[Maciamo]

As for the pension plan: if it's compulsory then someone forgot to tell me, my wife, the city hall and my accountant for the last eight years. That's how long I've been self-employed so I'm pretty confident that during that time any error would have been pointed out. Your money is far better off somewhere off-shore.

vs

The pension is mandatory for salaried employees and the self employed. Either you are in the "kousei nenkin" (for salaried employees) or "kokumin nenkin" (For self employed). The premiums are based on your income for kousei nenkin, and for self employeed are fixed at around 18000 yen per month (I don't remember the exact).

I support mr.sumo .snr here. I am self-employed and nobody has ever told me, my wife or her family that I had to pay for the pension. In fact, I was told that foreigners didn't need to pay because they probably won't stay in Japan long enough to get it back (which requrires 20 years of regular payment anyway). My wife pays it, although she isn't sure that she will live in Japan long enough to make use of it, but it's mostly because her mother insists that she does. Many young Japanese don't care about paying it, especially if they are unemployed, as everyone is normally supposed to pay once they become 20, regardless of whether they are working or not. I think the standard fee is 13,000yen, not 18,000yen.

One more thing; I was told that Japanese women don't need to pay their pension once they get married. However this does not work for those married to foreigners, as foreigners are not supposed to pay. That is one of the advantages of getting married for a Japanese woman, although my wife still pays as I am not Japanese.

I really don't think that foreigners must pay the pension, because I have just obtained permanent residency without ever paying it, and nobody complained or asked me to pay, even now as a permanent resident.

 

[Maciamo]

...I need to get a health insurance (wich one is best, wich one is cheap, does this health insurance cover 100% dentist, docter, etc.. or just half of it..)...

As Mikecash said, the Japanese health insurance is more like a tax that increase with your salary. If you are considered as a dependent (1st year) or have a salary under about 1 million yen/year, the minimum rate is about 3000yen//month. Calculate about 3500yen/month more per million yen of annual salary the previous year. This system can be tough if you had a very well-piad job but lose it or start working part-time, as you still have to pay the premiums based on the previous year's salary.

Don't hope to get the same cover as you would in the Netherlands. Many small things are not covered, like bloodtests for instance. You can buy an additional private health insurance to cover what the Japanese national insurance doesn't pay. A famous one with foreigners in Japan is InterGlobal Health.

 

[Mike Cash]

Am I the only foreigner here who participates in the kousei nenkin, expects to be in it 20+ years, and actually draw the pension (provided it hasn't gone bust by then, of course)?

For anyone who leaves Japan after having payed into the system for a number of years and is considering cashing out after leaving the country, let me caution you to give very careful thought to whether there exists a possibility you may find yourself back in Japan and back in the system. I cashed out after 5 years in the system (and received back the max of 3 years of contributions) and now find myself having to "redo" those 5 years toward my 20.

 

[GaijinPunch]

Am I the only foreigner here who participates in the kousei nenkin, expects to be in it 20+ years, and actually draw the pension (provided it hasn't gone bust by then, of course)?

I took out my max when I left last year. It was pretty sizeable, as my last two years were good. I do plan on going back, and who knows -- I could finish out my days there. The money I recieved went straight from there to a professionally managed investment account. They generally perform a bit above the market. If the market goes up 10% a year, I should expect about a 12% return. This of course compounds as the years go on. Yeah, the market goes down some years, but it goes up more. If you're talkin about retirement funds, the stock market has traditionally been the best place to put money.

I think the golden rule with taxes is that you want to pay as late as possible without getting fined, and you want the money in your own hands more than the governments, assuming you can make a better return on your money than they can (which is almost always the case).

 

[mad pierrot]

On a side note, this has to be one of the most useful threads I've read in along time. A lot of good, practical information here that could save people alot of time and anguish.


Two thumbs up.

 

[khammo01]

A note - Depending which country you are from, it may not be necessary for you to "cash out" . Countries with which Japan has signed reciprocal pension agreements means you can transfer your contributions to your home country's pension system. I believe this system is available with Australia and most EU countries. The United states also recently signed an agreement with Japan. i am not sure if it's taken affect yet, but you should definitely research it if you plan to leave Japan after a long stay.

I'm here for 10 years now and it was hanging over my head, reducing my worth if I ever decided to go back to the US. Now that it seems possible to transfer my contributions, I feel a lot better.

Check with your embassy or the pension service of your home country.

 

[khammo01]

vs


I support mr.sumo.snr here. I am self-employed and nobody has ever told me, my wife or her family that I had to pay for the pension. In fact, I was told that foreigners didn't need to pay because they probably won't stay in Japan long enough to get it back (which requrires 20 years of regular payment anyway). My wife pays it, although she isn't sure that she will live in Japan long enough to make use of it, but it's mostly because her mother insists that she does. Many young Japanese don't care about paying it, especially if they are unemployed, as everyone is normally supposed to pay once they become 20, regardless of whether they are working or not. I think the standard fee is 13,000yen, not 18,000yen.

One more thing; I was told that Japanese women don't need to pay their pension once they get married. However this does not work for those married to foreigners, as foreigners are not supposed to pay. That is one of the advantages of getting married for a Japanese woman, although my wife still pays as I am not Japanese.

I really don't think that foreigners must pay the pension, because I have just obtained permanent residency without ever paying it, and nobody complained or asked me to pay, even now as a permanent resident.

Anyone earning income is required to pay into the system.
It is not a question of whether "women" need to pay the system. It is a question of whether the person is a dependent or not (usually a salary under about 1mil a year makes one a dependent). Obtaining residency and paying the pension are two different things. You are obliged to pay the pension if you are not a dependent. Eventually the system will catch up with you. But as mentioned before, you are actually obligated to pay (and even pay your back premiums)

It is true some people don't pay. This is because enforcement is weak and there is poor education about what the true obligations are. It doesn't matter whether you 'don't plan to use it' - you still are supposed to pay it.

I've been paying for about 10 years now...
the premiums have gone down as a percentage of my salary as my income has increased.

 

[GaijinPunch]

. Countries with which Japan has signed reciprocal pension agreements means you can transfer your contributions to your home country's pension system.

Regardless, you should still do some math and see. In my case, I had lived in Japan a total of 7 years. I was going to get the last 3 years worth back. I didn't pay into it the first year, and years 2, 3, and 4 I made a fraction of what I made on years 5, 6, and 7. It was a no brainer. Even though I only got 3 of 7 years worth of contributions, I probably got 75% of the actual amount I paid in. Sure, I carry the risk of losing it now, but I can make compounded interest on it.

10 years? You'd would probably do a lot better to transfer it to your home country unless you worked for sheckles the first 7 in comparison to the latter 3.

 

[Tim33]

I dont understand the whole pension thing seeing that im 20 and never had a job.

Can someone explain to me exactly what happens here. Also what if you live in england till your 40 with a pension plan then move to Japan for the rest of your life. How does that work?

 

[khammo01]

There are several issues:
1. Total number of years to pay into a system before you can draw benefits
2. Whether payments made in each of Japan and the other country will count toward overall benefits
3. Whether benefits can be drawn in your chosen country of retirement.

The answers to depend on domestic law of each country and also whether a reciprocal agreement exists between England and Japan.

1. Let's assume the minimum number of years to pay into the system before drawing benefits is 25 years. In that case, you would need to work for 25 years in England or risk not being able to draw any benefits. Youmay be able to have your payments made in England count towards a pension in Japan, depending on any agreements in place.
Worst case, you divide your career 50% in Japan and 50% in England. Worst case is you might not be able to draw benefits in EITHER country.

Alternately, assume you work 25 years in one country and 10 in the other. While you should be able to draw the 25 years benefits, the 10 years in the other country might go down the drain if they could not be counted in the first country.

Finally, where you reside may affect whether you can draw benefits. I don't know about England, but I believe Japan lets you draw benefits regardless of which country you reside (although you might have to maintain a Japanese bank account to get the payments. Not sure. Also, benefits for living overseas might be less). I know for sure you can get something because they are showing on TV a lot about Japanese people retiring all over Asia in countries with lower costs of living.

 

[khammo01]

Regardless, you should still do some math and see. In my case, I had lived in Japan a total of 7 years. I was going to get the last 3 years worth back. I didn't pay into it the first year, and years 2, 3, and 4 I made a fraction of what I made on years 5, 6, and 7. It was a no brainer. Even though I only got 3 of 7 years worth of contributions, I probably got 75% of the actual amount I paid in. Sure, I carry the risk of losing it now, but I can make compounded interest on it.

10 years? You'd would probably do a lot better to transfer it to your home country unless you worked for sheckles the first 7 in comparison to the latter 3.

In my case, I will lose big bucks if I can't transfer it to my home country.

 

[GaijinPunch]

If you're from the west and working in Japan, in a lot of cases you'll be making quite a bit more than you would in your home country. If you're one of these, you should play it safe and start your own retirement fund... you should probably start one no matter who you are or where you live, to be honest.

 

[khammo01]

Agreed. This much goes without saying. To avoid shock when I'm 70, I am planning for retirement under the assumption that I will get nothing from a national pension system (even though I am paying into one). (With inflation, most people will need no less than a million dollars USD (measured in today's dollars) in assets by the time they retire.)

Even if I do get a payment, I know it won't be enough to live on.

However, I would not be happy if all those years of payments amounted to zero. This means that any benefits I do actually receive will be an additional bonus to the retirement fund I'm planning.

Oh, and btw, even under normal conditions you should be saving about 10% of your income for retirement. (Naturally you might not be able to afford this in the early part of your career.) This amount may vary depending upon how aggressively you plan to invest this money. However, try to save as much as possible as early as possible so you can reap the benefits of the magic of compounding interest.