Habitual actions: plain form and ～ている

raikado · 5 Apr 2015

Hello,

I was wondering what the difference is between using plain form and using ～ている when talking about actions that happen regularly. I found an answer, grammar - Habitual aspect - Japanese Language Stack Exchange (the long answer), but I would like to know if it is correct.

In short I would describe it as:

When plain form is used it's like the sentence is in a "void", with no connections to the prior sentences. The listener has to make those connections using context.
And ～ている sentences come with some of those connections already made by the speaker.

I am mostly interested in the plain form, and if the "sentence in a void" part describes it well enough.

Toritoribe · 5 Apr 2015

I think the main difference is that the dictionary form expresses the whole action whereas -te iru form can give other nuances/meanings ("not long term but currently", for instance). The examples that are mentioned in the thread you lined seem just to show some functions of the -te iru form to me.

raikado · 6 Apr 2015

Thank you! I am actually focusing more on the plain form because there isn't much information on how it is used, even though it's the most basic form of a verb.

What about the difference between using plain form or ている with まだ? I found this answer some time ago.

With まだ, this works out like this:

まだしていない is 'the action isn't completed yet' (i.e. it can happen/finish whenever and we're just waiting)

まだしない is 'the conditions for the action beginning aren't fulfilled yet' (i.e. there's something still lacking before it can begin, and just waiting isn't going to get us anything if we don't complete the prerequisites)

from grammar - When using もう and まだ does a negative verb always have to be in the (ている) present continuous form? - Japanese Language Stack Exchange
Do you agree with this explanation? And do these different meanings also come from the basic difference between -te iru and plain form?

Toritoribe · 6 Apr 2015

I don't agree with the explanation of まだ～ない. That fits only for non-volitional verbs. As for volitional verbs, まだ～ない expresses that the action can be done(the condition is already fulfilled), but it's not done just because of the agent's will. See the difference between まだ食べない and まだ食べられない or まだ窓を開けない and まだ窓が開かない, for instance.

raikado · 6 Apr 2015

Hmm, what about まだ来ない. Where does this one fit?

「夕飯の時間なのに彼がまだ帰ってこないね」「放っておけ、もう子どもじゃないんだから」
"It's dinner time but he hasn't come back yet." "Let him do what he wants. He's not a child anymore."
バスがまだ来ない。
The bus isn't here yet.
さっき注文したサラダがまだ来ないんですけど。
The salad I ordered earlier hasn't come yet.

These examples don't seem to fit either category. Judging by the translation though, it seems to be identical to まだ～ていない.

Toritoribe · 6 Apr 2015

まだ（帰って）来ない and まだ（帰って）来ていない are interchangeable in those cases. The point of the focus is a bit different, though.

raikado · 6 Apr 2015

まだ来ていない still has this meaning "まだしていない is 'the action isn't completed yet' (i.e. it can happen/finish whenever and we're just waiting)", right?
What does まだ来ない focuses on?

Toritoribe · 6 Apr 2015

raikado said:
まだ来ていない still has this meaning "まだしていない is 'the action isn't completed yet' (i.e. it can happen/finish whenever and we're just waiting)", right?

Yes, the former (I didn't deny it), but ? for in the parentheses.

raikado said:
What does まだ来ない focuses on?

If the action is started or not, not "completed". (They expresses the same thing as a result.)

raikado · 6 Apr 2015

I just wanted to be sure that it was right for 来ていない as well.

Toritoribe said:
If the action is started or not, not "completed". (They expresses the same thing as a result.)

It's a little bit fuzzy how this works exactly for バスがまだ来ない for example, but somehow it feels like I understand this, so I'm good here.

Please answer this: Do you agree that these differences all come just from the standard difference between the plain form and the -te iru form?

Toritoribe · 6 Apr 2015

If you are talking about the the difference between まだ～ない and まだ～ていない, まだ limits the function of the -te iru form.

raikado · 7 Apr 2015

It is limited in the sense that with まだ, ～ていない can only show the resulting state of an action ("haven't done, yet") and not a continuous action ("I am not doing"), right?

Toritoribe · 7 Apr 2015

Yes, that's right. まだ～ていない shows that the action doesn't start yet, not "doesn't finish yet". (For instance, まだ食べていない means まだ食べ始めていない, and not まだ食べ終わっていない.)

raikado · 8 Apr 2015

Yes, it's pretty intuitive. It's just the difference between using negative plain form and -te inai that was confusing. Really thank you for explaining it! I think that I cleared up some of my misconceptions about the plain form now.

Habitual actions: plain form and ～ている

raikado

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Toritoribe

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raikado

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Toritoribe

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raikado

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

raikado

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

raikado

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

raikado

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

raikado

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